Victory conditions (please read update) (in Changelog)
A battle is considered a stalemate if only a familiar remains alive.
Update: this change has been reverted.
QBRanger
July 26 2005 7:54 PM EDT
I guess that can be called a FF nerf!!!
WeaponX
July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT
nice a FF nerf without nerfing them. excellent
Special J
July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT
ToJ nerf too ;)
trigun
July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT
how bout a toj then? whats the point of its relatively big HP?
TheEvolution
July 26 2005 7:58 PM EDT
Familiar nerf..
so if I equip a lesser ToI on an enchanter in back no tank will ever get a win?
flipperkill
July 26 2005 8:00 PM EDT
Tat Artist is gonna be busy
trigun
July 26 2005 8:02 PM EDT
tatoo nerf? how bout ToE and ToA who never die? =s
Yohan
July 26 2005 8:02 PM EDT
novice that makes no sense. if the tank kills the familiar its a win. What Jon is saying is if you 'win' a battle and all of your minions have died but you have a familiar still alive it counts as a stalemate.
Maelstrom
July 26 2005 8:06 PM EDT
I like the intention of this change, but the effect is that I suffer from it, even though I use a ToE and not a familiar.
Formerly, I would either lose or draw to some characters with familiars, but I would still get some $ and XP. Now I get more stalemates, and get no benefit from those battles.
QBRanger
July 26 2005 8:06 PM EDT
Actually is it a FF nerf?
All someone has to do is still equip the overpowered FF, and find a few higher score single minion characters and still fight away.
no Yohan, if a familar is in the back, there is no way to kill it with a tank without killing all the other minions first.
Why not have this apply only to battles where the familar user is the challenger?
3D
July 26 2005 8:10 PM EDT
Jeez thats a very interesting way to nerf them. Its a very good nerf too i must add.
Carnt Spall
July 26 2005 8:11 PM EDT
Yes novice but as long as the tank kills the familiar eventually they will win.... I don't see how equipping a familiar at the back will mean the team cannot be beaten
BECAUSE IF ALL OTHER MINIONS BESIDES FAMILIAR ARE DEAD, it's OVER!
Carnt Spall
July 26 2005 8:16 PM EDT
Not if your opponent still has minions alive
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:16 PM EDT
Just because a minion is the only thing left living on one side before all rounds are over doesn't mean it automatically becomes a stalemate. ONLY when A familiar remains alive is a battle considered a stalemate.
BLEH,
Team 1 a tank based team with no conical dd
Team 2 whatever with an e in back wearing ToJ
Team 1 kills first 4 minions, ToJ is left in back, STALEMATE!
[-war-]
July 26 2005 8:20 PM EDT
I am exibit A of what would of been ton of stalemates if I hadn't sold my stuff right now. My wall dies first, second minion dies ez, tattoo is left to finish off enemy. Does this change mean that if my 2 minions die and my tatoo is left to finish off the enemy I will still have astalemate?
QBOddBird
July 26 2005 8:21 PM EDT
they wouldn't do that, though. that is a waste of the ToJ's HP. They simply move it forward so that they can use its HP as a meatshield still. Duh.
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:26 PM EDT
Hey novice, if you're not already aware, that would lead to a stalemate before this change if all the rounds are used up.
rounds used up? this is round 5 we are talking about. or rather round 4 since that would be the round in which you killing the last minion.
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:28 PM EDT
Then you'd still have 21 rounds to kill the ToJ. Please, please, _please_ read.
A battle is considered a stalemate if only a familiar remains alive.
You read, the way I read that is, if the last minion alive is a familar, the fight is over and it's a stalemate.
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:33 PM EDT
Look at it this way...
After 4 rounds, Team 1 has a FF remaining while Team 2 has nothing. -- Stalemate
After 4 rounds, Team 3 has a ToJ remaining and Team 2 has two minions. -- Fight not over
Special J
July 26 2005 8:34 PM EDT
If the ToJ is the last thing standing, the fight ends then and there.
Please, _please_ fight and you will see this.
I've just seen evidence to the contrary, maybe it was fixed already, but I got stalemates without having a familiar during fights where I had minions alive.
Synco
July 26 2005 8:36 PM EDT
You can't anymore. Jon killed the change.
For to Why was said change "reverted"
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:37 PM EDT
I guess it doesn't matter. Can you offer us any insight as to why it was reverted, Jon?
[T]Vestax
July 26 2005 8:39 PM EDT
If you could kill the familiar first in a familiar heavy team before, this changes nothing. If you could defeat the familiar using team before, this only possibly changes your rewards. If you use to lose against a team with a familiar, you now have the chance to stalemate against them. In no way does this nerf anything except familiars and possibly the rewards of teams that beat them.
For once a familiar, a tradable minion, is in some way below a regular minion, as this should be the case. Up until now these tradable minions was better then normal build-it-yourself minions, in almost every respect. Building a UC tank equivalent to a ToJ or a Mage equivalent to the fire, ice, and steal familiars use to add more PR then the familiar itself.
However, I think challenging a familiar team is worth the risk of losing rather then stalemating. If you could beat a team before and now you stalemate, I think that goes beyond nerfing just familiars. Making them stalemate only when the familiar team challenges you does everything to solve the problem in exactly the same way without going out of the familiar nerfing scope. Currently there already seems to be a few teams that win against my challenges yet lose every time they challenge me. I don't know if there is some sort of defensive bonus, but I have already learned to live with one and making another defensive bonus against familiar teams is just fine with me.
BrandonLP
July 26 2005 8:39 PM EDT
That was supposed to be "I guess it doesn't matter now."
TV and CB don't mix well, apparently.
Gaaaah! Half of my fights end with only my ToJ alive. I'm so glad this was reverted.
[T]Vestax
July 26 2005 8:46 PM EDT
=P Reverted before I even finished making one of my famously long posts.
Hehe. I made a not-so-long post about it before I saw this thread.
YNM
July 26 2005 11:30 PM EDT
ah shucks, that's too bad that it is reverted, i would have liked to be able to see low minion teams with insanely high ff's not do so well.
Not to mention that the hot and steamy "Is Too!" "Is Not!" battle of wits between novice and brandon is over...
I see why this change was tried, and why it was reversed. Why not as per Glory's post make it so that the new limit becomes the tattoos' effective level in battle (if that limit is lower than the tattoo of course).
AdminShade
July 27 2005 8:38 AM EDT
woot, that would make people think again when using an E E E F (Familiar) strategy ;)
AdminShade
July 27 2005 8:53 AM EDT
why not make it a draw instead?
chernobyl
July 27 2005 9:05 AM EDT
That would still really be lame, Shade, reduced rewards for depending on a familiar doesn't exactly sound fair.
With familiars, it's possible to train a team with zero offense except for the familiar - a nice option that proves to be a very viable alternative for several players. Had this nerf stayed in place, any enchanter-familiar team is GUARANTEED to stalemate (draw?) and receive zero (reduced?) rewards. This immediately would give ToA/ToE/TBF a super-advantage because those tattoos aren't subject to the problem.
AdminShade
July 27 2005 9:06 AM EDT
indeed a draw would make it still unfair for relying on your tattoo...
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