Victory conditions (please read update) (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan July 26 2005 7:52 PM EDT

A battle is considered a stalemate if only a familiar remains alive.

Update: this change has been reverted.

QBRanger July 26 2005 7:54 PM EDT

I guess that can be called a FF nerf!!!

WeaponX July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT

nice a FF nerf without nerfing them. excellent

Special J July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT

ToJ nerf too ;)

trigun July 26 2005 7:55 PM EDT

how bout a toj then? whats the point of its relatively big HP?

thebloomdog12 July 26 2005 7:57 PM EDT

great change muhahaha

TheEvolution July 26 2005 7:58 PM EDT

Familiar nerf..

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 7:58 PM EDT

so if I equip a lesser ToI on an enchanter in back no tank will ever get a win?

flipperkill July 26 2005 8:00 PM EDT

Tat Artist is gonna be busy

trigun July 26 2005 8:02 PM EDT

tatoo nerf? how bout ToE and ToA who never die? =s

Yohan July 26 2005 8:02 PM EDT

novice that makes no sense. if the tank kills the familiar its a win. What Jon is saying is if you 'win' a battle and all of your minions have died but you have a familiar still alive it counts as a stalemate.

Maelstrom July 26 2005 8:06 PM EDT

I like the intention of this change, but the effect is that I suffer from it, even though I use a ToE and not a familiar.

Formerly, I would either lose or draw to some characters with familiars, but I would still get some $ and XP. Now I get more stalemates, and get no benefit from those battles.

QBRanger July 26 2005 8:06 PM EDT

Actually is it a FF nerf?

All someone has to do is still equip the overpowered FF, and find a few higher score single minion characters and still fight away.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:06 PM EDT

no Yohan, if a familar is in the back, there is no way to kill it with a tank without killing all the other minions first.

Why not have this apply only to battles where the familar user is the challenger?

3D July 26 2005 8:10 PM EDT

Jeez thats a very interesting way to nerf them. Its a very good nerf too i must add.

Carnt Spall July 26 2005 8:11 PM EDT

Yes novice but as long as the tank kills the familiar eventually they will win.... I don't see how equipping a familiar at the back will mean the team cannot be beaten

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:14 PM EDT


Carnt Spall July 26 2005 8:16 PM EDT

Not if your opponent still has minions alive

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:16 PM EDT

Just because a minion is the only thing left living on one side before all rounds are over doesn't mean it automatically becomes a stalemate. ONLY when A familiar remains alive is a battle considered a stalemate.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:19 PM EDT


Team 1 a tank based team with no conical dd

Team 2 whatever with an e in back wearing ToJ

Team 1 kills first 4 minions, ToJ is left in back, STALEMATE!

[-war-] July 26 2005 8:20 PM EDT

I am exibit A of what would of been ton of stalemates if I hadn't sold my stuff right now. My wall dies first, second minion dies ez, tattoo is left to finish off enemy. Does this change mean that if my 2 minions die and my tatoo is left to finish off the enemy I will still have astalemate?

QBOddBird July 26 2005 8:21 PM EDT

they wouldn't do that, though. that is a waste of the ToJ's HP. They simply move it forward so that they can use its HP as a meatshield still. Duh.

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:26 PM EDT

Hey novice, if you're not already aware, that would lead to a stalemate before this change if all the rounds are used up.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:27 PM EDT

rounds used up? this is round 5 we are talking about. or rather round 4 since that would be the round in which you killing the last minion.

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:28 PM EDT

Then you'd still have 21 rounds to kill the ToJ. Please, please, _please_ read.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:30 PM EDT

A battle is considered a stalemate if only a familiar remains alive.

You read, the way I read that is, if the last minion alive is a familar, the fight is over and it's a stalemate.

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:33 PM EDT

Look at it this way...

After 4 rounds, Team 1 has a FF remaining while Team 2 has nothing. -- Stalemate

After 4 rounds, Team 3 has a ToJ remaining and Team 2 has two minions. -- Fight not over

Special J July 26 2005 8:34 PM EDT

If the ToJ is the last thing standing, the fight ends then and there.

Please, _please_ fight and you will see this.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:35 PM EDT

I've just seen evidence to the contrary, maybe it was fixed already, but I got stalemates without having a familiar during fights where I had minions alive.

Synco July 26 2005 8:36 PM EDT

You can't anymore. Jon killed the change.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2005 8:36 PM EDT

For to Why was said change "reverted"

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:37 PM EDT

I guess it doesn't matter. Can you offer us any insight as to why it was reverted, Jon?

[T]Vestax July 26 2005 8:39 PM EDT

If you could kill the familiar first in a familiar heavy team before, this changes nothing. If you could defeat the familiar using team before, this only possibly changes your rewards. If you use to lose against a team with a familiar, you now have the chance to stalemate against them. In no way does this nerf anything except familiars and possibly the rewards of teams that beat them.

For once a familiar, a tradable minion, is in some way below a regular minion, as this should be the case. Up until now these tradable minions was better then normal build-it-yourself minions, in almost every respect. Building a UC tank equivalent to a ToJ or a Mage equivalent to the fire, ice, and steal familiars use to add more PR then the familiar itself.

However, I think challenging a familiar team is worth the risk of losing rather then stalemating. If you could beat a team before and now you stalemate, I think that goes beyond nerfing just familiars. Making them stalemate only when the familiar team challenges you does everything to solve the problem in exactly the same way without going out of the familiar nerfing scope. Currently there already seems to be a few teams that win against my challenges yet lose every time they challenge me. I don't know if there is some sort of defensive bonus, but I have already learned to live with one and making another defensive bonus against familiar teams is just fine with me.

BrandonLP July 26 2005 8:39 PM EDT

That was supposed to be "I guess it doesn't matter now."

TV and CB don't mix well, apparently.

Stephen Young July 26 2005 8:39 PM EDT

Gaaaah! Half of my fights end with only my ToJ alive. I'm so glad this was reverted.

[T]Vestax July 26 2005 8:46 PM EDT

=P Reverted before I even finished making one of my famously long posts.

Stephen Young July 26 2005 8:47 PM EDT

Hehe. I made a not-so-long post about it before I saw this thread.

YNM July 26 2005 11:30 PM EDT

ah shucks, that's too bad that it is reverted, i would have liked to be able to see low minion teams with insanely high ff's not do so well.

Stephen Young July 27 2005 6:04 AM EDT

Not to mention that the hot and steamy "Is Too!" "Is Not!" battle of wits between novice and brandon is over...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] July 27 2005 8:31 AM EDT

I see why this change was tried, and why it was reversed. Why not as per Glory's post make it so that the new limit becomes the tattoos' effective level in battle (if that limit is lower than the tattoo of course).

AdminShade July 27 2005 8:38 AM EDT

woot, that would make people think again when using an E E E F (Familiar) strategy ;)

AdminShade July 27 2005 8:53 AM EDT

why not make it a draw instead?

chernobyl July 27 2005 9:05 AM EDT

That would still really be lame, Shade, reduced rewards for depending on a familiar doesn't exactly sound fair.

With familiars, it's possible to train a team with zero offense except for the familiar - a nice option that proves to be a very viable alternative for several players. Had this nerf stayed in place, any enchanter-familiar team is GUARANTEED to stalemate (draw?) and receive zero (reduced?) rewards. This immediately would give ToA/ToE/TBF a super-advantage because those tattoos aren't subject to the problem.

AdminShade July 27 2005 9:06 AM EDT

indeed a draw would make it still unfair for relying on your tattoo...
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