New Idea: Ability to view defensive battlelogs (in General)

chappy [Soup Ream] September 28 2005 6:46 PM EDT

Title says mostly what I was thinking about .. I guess maybe for the last 1000 battles can we have the ability to view the play by play of the battles .. mainly for the losses, but I suppose for all battles?? What are your thoughts?

[Tranquility]-USDForger [Azn Forgesmith] September 28 2005 6:49 PM EDT

that's too much data i think. However, i would love to have 100 last battles *or 70* that i was attacked but won/draw :P

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] September 28 2005 6:49 PM EDT

in most cases: fighting the person gives you a pretty accurate battle log, but I would like to be able to see how badly I do against some people ; )

QBRanger September 28 2005 6:51 PM EDT

I personally would like it but I can see the fact that it would require far to much server memory space as to be prohibitive.

Right now the battles you initiate are stored in your computer's memory cache as not to take up server space/memory.

So while it is a great idea, its one that will not happen due to reasons above.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 28 2005 6:53 PM EDT

I know you can just fight them, but I guess why should you have to give them more xp by beating you again just to see what you should already know .. seeing as how they have fought you already :)

[Tranquility]-USDForger [Azn Forgesmith] September 28 2005 7:01 PM EDT

"Right now the battles you initiate are stored in your computer's memory cache as not to take up server space/memory."
Unless Jon insist on this statement of yours, I seriously think this statement is not true.
I think the battle logs are just mere 'header' image got pasted there. If it was improved to data key of which who initiate the fight then it would be really easy to make two categories of which into what i said earlier.
It of course would help to "add a person who would lose to me"

Duke September 28 2005 7:38 PM EDT

The server is already slow during peak hour and the server cannot be upgrade anymore.Any extra charge will make it even slower.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] September 28 2005 10:52 PM EDT

i already got flamed for this exact idea. And yes, it probably would be alot of unused data for the most part, but still i think it is a good idea.

Grim Reaper September 29 2005 12:12 AM EDT

I can't see how a defensive log would be implemented when the recent battles does the same thing.

QBOddBird September 29 2005 1:25 AM EDT

I'm thinking you didn't understand, Tormentor. Play - by - play is what he was asking for.

Duke September 29 2005 2:07 AM EDT


If you call that flame you should go on a computer hardware forum.The good old Intel VS AMD argument.

AdminShade September 29 2005 5:41 AM EDT

wouldn't this log thousands and thousands of fights, making a much much higher payload for the server?

*sees slow server :S*

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 7:43 AM EDT

If it was set up to store the last 1000 then yes it would log thousands and thousands .. The idea of being able to see why you lost a fight is important to me so really if there were a feasable way to pull it off without slowing down the server or costing an arm and a leg for Jon then I think it would be helpful to all ... unless you never lose a battle :P

AdminShade September 29 2005 7:55 AM EDT

why not then if you really want to know why you lost that fight, fight that character once more?

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 9:44 AM EDT

I think I have two small hang-ups here.

1. Why fight the person that you know is (most likely) going to beat you? You are just giving them more XP and throwing away BA .. sure it's just one .. one BA per inspection .. what if you want to inspect 10 people to see where your weaknesses are? that's 10 BA right there ... it adds up. I feel that since you have already taken the loss of score, why lose more just to see what went wrong?

2. If you have to go back and fight someone to see what went wrong then there is a chance that some of the strategy or weapons / tattoos could have changed. Maybe they were renting some new weapon ... by the time you go fight them maybe the rental is over and you would never know .. just a thought.

-- another idea .. in the current battle logs what are the chances of seeing your opponent's post battle stats?? I'd like to see maybe how close I'm getting to winning fights that I'm losing ... seeing how well my AxBow is knocking down DEX .. stuff like that .. thoughts?

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 9:46 AM EDT

***DEX ... grr ... that hasn't happened in a long time lol

Grim Reaper September 29 2005 10:01 AM EDT

I get it now,you want to be able to view a finished battle in detail, sort of like dark throne has,cept dark throne also logs attack logs too. People are able to do view detail of the battle if it was attack or defence it still would show like attack log.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 3:19 PM EDT

That's what I was talking about, yes. If that is too much to handle then I can make do without it, but what's keeping us from seeing your opponent's post battle stats?? I really think that that would be helpful :P Am I alone on that?

[T]Vestax September 29 2005 3:32 PM EDT

[Edit] Fixed cappy's "typo" for him.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 3:36 PM EDT

lol much appreciated [bot]Vestax ... but who's going to fix yours?? :)

[T]Vestax September 29 2005 4:23 PM EDT

I know this seems long but I assure you this one post can answer the same amount of questions that would normally carry on for 20 or 30 posts. But if you must know the final solution is in the second to last paragraph.

Well at first I thought this would be a simple task with not too much storage involved. My thought was that some of the information needed was already present in the server's data. Things like who fought who. I then thought that all you needed to do is store the random numbers and only the random numbers generated in the battle. Everything else could be generated on the spot when you asked for the data.

However, there is one small glitch with this issue. What if I change my strategy just a little. Or simply train xp. The results would no longer be of the same battle but rather a different battle that uses the same random numbers. In fact, if the newly generated battle were to extend past the rounds and moves of the original, then you would run out of random numbers to use.

Therefore, it would be necessary for every scrap of data pertinent to the battle to be stored. This would be everything you see on your home page. You would even have to keep track of minion names because what happens if the person you go to inspect decides to drop a minion. Then on top of that you have to store the random numbers. However, that is if you wanted to generate the battle over again with the battle engine. Bad idea.

So we are back to storing the original play-by-play as you see it. This data would most likely be best stored as number pairings. The first number would be a code for what type of move was used, followed by the magnitude of that move. In the case of DD it would be the damage, in the case of AS it would be the HP granted. But then you might need another number added to this pair for targeting. Then maybe more for CoC spells and FB. Then you still might have to keep track of the opponents names. I haven't really thought about the most efficient way to make this, but still it is shaping up to be well more then storing the random numbers. On top of that Jon would have to develop a brand new engine designed to read and render this coded data.

So is there any way to get what you want without an immense load on the computer or without a lot of work for Jon to do? Maybe. Let's go back to the storing of random numbers idea again. It is the best way to get the battle log back since you can pretty much use the existing engine. The problem was that it might not be the same battle and that you may run out of these numbers. Yet, if all the battles are served using a random number generator that uses a seed value and generates new numbers from there, then you can generate all the random numbers from just one number. This solves half the problem, but only if conditions in the current system are correct.

So, then why don't we just regenerate battles and not care that they may be a bit off. Well, you can take that line of thinking but eventually this could be used to test out your own strat changes before you even fight with your normal fight list again. This could then be viewed as allowing the player too much foreknowledge of upcoming BA usage. Plus this idea is still very dependent on the random number generator for this game being of a specific type. Personally I have a better and fairer idea.

This is the only solution I see that works. When a battle is logged you take the random numbers generated and store them along with the other data (the attacker, the defender, the result, the rounds, and the time stamp). Then that battle is viewable by using the current game engine in it's exactness. _Except_ when a person changes their strat in any way, this goes for both the defender and the attacker. Once you change something, anything, then another time stamp is added to your character data. This time stamp can overwrite on top of an old one so it's not like we are collecting a whole lot of data here either. Then when you go to see an expired battle, the game first checks to see if that battle is older then either your time stamp or the opponents. If it is not then the game can generate the battle all over again with minimal computer usage. If the battle is too old however, then you get a message saying so and you really shouldn't have a right to complain. The other cool thing is that this is not dependent on what type of random number generator Jon uses.

Most players will burn hundreds of BA without changing a thing in their strat and tattoos lag in level growth, so I plenty of room to view dozens of battle you have both won and lost. Plus this isn't just useful for defenders, but for attackers too that want to fight and then check the results. If your back button ever brakes then this would be a handy solution in my opinion.

chappy [Soup Ream] September 29 2005 5:48 PM EDT

I see what you are saying ... and for the most part understand where you are going with it. It would be helpful to me if it were possible. Is there any way to know if this would be viable? Also, Vestax, what are your thoughts on my other idea (opponent's post game stats)??

QBRanger September 29 2005 5:51 PM EDT

Being able to view opponents post battle stats is an excellent idea.

Besides for the knowledge of the dex/str leech of your xbow, you can also see how much HP your opponent has left. Knowing exactly how much they have left can help a lot especially when you lose a battle.

Or if you win a battle, to see if you really destroyed them or just barely beat them.

[T]Vestax September 29 2005 9:08 PM EDT

Viable? I just told you what I thought was viable. As for post battle stats, eh, I'm not going to cry if it doesn't happen. If I'm desperate I'll whip out the calculator and figure it out.
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