2H vs 1H (in General)

BrandonLPOctober 7 2005 2:16 PM EDT

+ 1H melee weapons now have a 50% higher base chance-to-hit than 2H weapons
+ (1H base to-hit went up; 2H base to-hit went down)
+ this affects how easy it is to get double hits from DX as well

Granted this is an old change by Jon, but I'm still a bit unclear on certain aspects. I'm assuming that, with the input of others, 1H has a 50% better chance of hitting and scoring a double, but once we venture into the realm of triples, a 1H weapon and a 2H weapon have the same chance. Does anyone have conclusive evidence supporting or disproving this idea? Would a 1H weapon actually have a better chance at scoring triples? Quads? Thanks!

DukeOctober 7 2005 3:01 PM EDT

I have fought ranger char lately he score some quad hit in melee with is MH.Is ToA add about 70 to 75 PTH.

TOA+MH=175 if he was losing 25 point for the 2H weapon he could not get quad hit.So i assume the -25% +25% is only help on the dex base To hit factor.

AdminJonathanOctober 7 2005 3:17 PM EDT

"once we venture into the realm of triples, a 1H weapon and a 2H weapon have the same chance"

nope

QBRangerOctober 7 2005 3:33 PM EDT

I have always assumed that the 50 percent better chance to hit with a 1H weapon was for the dex chance to hit. We all know the dex chance and the pth chance to hit are done/calculated seperately.

BrandonLPOctober 7 2005 4:00 PM EDT

There is supposed to be a "do" in that sentence as well as question mark. Jeez... my grammar is off today.

So this leads me to believe that 1H weapon will always have a better chance at scoring more hits than a 2H weapon.

AdminJonathanOctober 7 2005 4:21 PM EDT

right

but if your dx advantage is big enough a 2H weapon will do just as well

DukeOctober 7 2005 4:31 PM EDT

Then a +25 1H should be able to get triple hit.With my BTH +43 i never get a single triple.

AdminJonathanOctober 7 2005 4:32 PM EDT

do I even need to say it?

duke doesn't know what he is talking about

BrandonLPOctober 7 2005 4:40 PM EDT

Ahhhh, thanks Jon. It's much clearer now. =)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]October 9 2005 9:31 AM EDT

:) Hopefully this is along the right track.

Before the change, having a Dex equal to your target gave you a 50% change to land a single dex based blow. PTH extra hits are seperate to this. If you had a +43 BTH (and your taget has no evasion) you would have a 50% chance to land one dex hit, and a 43% to land another pth based hit. With a +200 bth, it would be 50% to land a dex based hit with another two automatic (100%, then 100%) pth based hits.

Phew.

With the 1H/2H changes, 1H dex chance to hit went up, 2H went down, with a 50% gap between them. The obvious answer is now 1H weapons (At equal dex to your target) have 75% chance to land a single dex based hit. 2H weapons a 25% chance.

For each 1% dex difference between you and your target modifies your dex based chance to hit by 1%. So, if you had a dexterity 25% larger than your target, with a 1 handed wepaon you would have a 100% cnance of landing a single dex based hit. With a 2H weapon that would be 50%. All of this is ignoring pth on your weapon (now you also have to consider what evasion your target has as well, but that's another discussion.)

Dexterity can at most, allow you 2 dex based hits. It is thought there is a 65% cap on the chance of landing the second dex hit, but I can't remember any proof of this. Regardless, whether this is capped at 65% or 100% (well, 165% and 200% if you include the first hit) makes no difference if your dex (as Jon says) advantage is big enough.

A 1Handed weapon will just reach the cap with a samller dex difference than a 2 Hander.

:)

I hope this makes sense, and if any of this is incorrect, I hope Jon will step in! ;)

AdminJonathanOctober 9 2005 10:41 AM EDT

"For each 1% dex difference between you and your target modifies your dex based chance to hit by 1%. So, if you had a dexterity 25% larger than your target, with a 1 handed wepaon you would have a 100% cnance of landing a single dex based hit."

good guess, but wrong

AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]October 9 2005 11:28 AM EDT

:P

I thought that was where I might hit a snag. It was based only from your coment that someone with 10% more dex would see a 10% increase in chance to hit.

I think the dex advantage is more likely a curve than a straight 1% Dex =1% chance to hit.

But I've assumed correctly the 1H/2H change has moved chance to hit at equal dex from 50% to 75%/25%?

:)

MonkeyboyOctober 9 2005 11:35 AM EDT

To confirm what I think I understand...

1. The buff/nerf to 1H/2H weapons did not affect the chance to hit resulting from PTH bonus.
2. The buff/nerf to 1H/2H weapons only affected the chance to hit based on dex. This leads to three general possibilities: a. if your dex is greater than your opponent, then the buff/nerf does not affect your chance to hit based on dex. b. if your dex is equal to your opponent, you now have an increased chance to have a double strike with a 1H vs. a 2H weapon. c. if your dex is less than your opponent, you now have an increased chance to have a single strike with a 1H vs. a 2H weapon.

Of course, exactly how much "greater than" and how much "lesser than" have not been defined, but this is my understanding of the basic difference between 1H and 2H weapons (as resulting from the buff/nerf).

AdminJonathanOctober 9 2005 11:56 AM EDT

"But I've assumed correctly the 1H/2H change has moved chance to hit at equal dex from 50% to 75%/25%?"

actually, that part is wrong too :)

Will [Retired]October 9 2005 12:10 PM EDT

25% of 50% is 12.5% so 1-handed = 62.5% and 2-handed = 37.5%...?

bartjanOctober 9 2005 12:16 PM EDT

1H base to-hit went up; 2H base to-hit went down. Wit a 50% difference, that could mean the 1H base to-hit went up by anything between 1 and 49%... And we have no clue from what starting point it went up.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]October 9 2005 1:16 PM EDT

:'( I feared as much! 25%/75% would be nice and simple...

Monkeyboy;

"if your dex is equal to your opponent, you now have an increased chance to have a double strike with a 1H vs. a 2H weapon."

If you dex is equal, you can't land a double hit with dex. (The max 1H dex chance to hit could have been increased to is 99%...)

[Tranquility]-USDForger[Azn Forgesmith]October 9 2005 1:20 PM EDT

Is it possible to ask to public this algorithm/formula mathematically? Or it is something out of line/place to ask? (just curious)