Tezmac's MPR bug report (in General)


Tezmac October 19 2005 8:05 PM EDT

...Or am I dumb?

I left work today (about an hour ago) and my MPR was sitting around 640k, I only know this because I broke into the Top 20 yesterday. I get home and log on and my MPR is sitting just below 600k. I check my "graph" and my MPR did indeed just drop for some reason. I didn't untrain and retrain anything and I didnt fire a minion. I did however just BS 2 pairs of AG from +9 to +10, anyone know what's going on?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] October 19 2005 8:07 PM EDT

i was thinking since they were in the BS maybe it went down cuz they werent equipped, but that would lower your PR, not MPR.

But it's an even month, no changes...lol. I have no idea.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] October 19 2005 8:08 PM EDT

weird, it still says there's 0 posts nest to this topic, even tho i replied to it...=P

My cookies are in order...hmm...=P

Tezmac October 19 2005 8:14 PM EDT

Just to add, it looks like none of my stat levels dropped either.

! Love Barney October 19 2005 11:31 PM EDT

i checked ur history graph and you did drop about 50k mpr. . . i have no idea how that happend.

Adrian Exodus October 19 2005 11:42 PM EDT

o nO! you found out my evil plot, i stole your mpr and traveled back in time and gave it to my minions...and i thought i would never be discovered... but i guess since you can check and compare are graphs i lose :(

}:-[ <--evil vampire face :P


but anyways...odd? and no untraining or anything?

miteke [Superheros] October 19 2005 11:52 PM EDT

Did you retrain a stat or two?

Tezmac October 19 2005 11:54 PM EDT

Nope, no untraining, hopefully Jon will be around to help figure this one out. :O)

Lumpy Koala October 19 2005 11:58 PM EDT

i would say... good for you !!!

Lower MPR, but no stat changes :)

Mikel October 20 2005 7:55 AM EDT

I dropped as well. I was just over 80k mpr then fell to mid 50k ish, fought 500 fights and trained all of that, now I'm barely over 60k, not that I'm complaining all that much, my rewards did go up considering that I've been hitting the same group for a couple of days now. You can see the drop in my chart as well.

onlyyouknow October 20 2005 8:07 AM EDT

I also notice a change in my mpr. I'm getting better returns for my fights too. Strange.

Tezmac October 20 2005 9:27 AM EDT

Yeah, my rewards are up too, but I figure it's because I'm fighting the same people with 50k less MPR. But I don't really care about the rewards, I had been busting my butt to climb up the MPR rankings and I just lost a huge amount of work...

QBsutekh137 October 20 2005 9:54 AM EDT

Very odd...am racking my brain about other times people have talked about MPR loss...firing a minion, untraining, etc. I can't think of what has caused this for you...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 20 2005 10:57 AM EDT

rescale or roll back I guess...

Tezmac October 20 2005 11:14 AM EDT

Just on me?

QBsutekh137 October 20 2005 12:39 PM EDT

Look at my (or anyone who plays consistently) 30 day graph...smooth as silk. If there was some sort of mini-rescale, it sure didn't affect me...

Where's The Creator when you need him?

Tezmac October 20 2005 4:04 PM EDT

He's lurking around somewhere!

Tezmac October 21 2005 12:33 AM EDT

Alas, it looks like I might be hosed it seems. Well, everyone beware the beast that roams CB whilest you are away, you never know what you'll be missing when you come back!

AdminNightStrike October 22 2005 11:43 PM EDT

Did you ever find the cause?

QBsutekh137 October 23 2005 11:44 AM EDT

Sorry, but I am going to keep bumping this until someone offers an answer. The growth graph is proof that MPR dropped, and Tezmac knows his stuff (so I trust it wasn't an untrain or fire-minion scenario). So, I would really like to know what happened here, and Tezmac _definitely_ deserves an answer... If it can happen to him, it could happen to any of us, and I don't think anyone likes random losses of what they have worked to gain.

AdminNightStrike October 23 2005 11:46 AM EDT

What did Jon say?

Adrian Exodus October 23 2005 11:46 AM EDT

so i may be going blind but was it mentioned if he used a RoE, cause i would hate to see that as the cause of a bug (lossing the xp you earned while wearing)

but don't mind me i think i just need sleep again.

QBsutekh137 October 23 2005 11:52 AM EDT

An interesting possibility, Adrian... And if you look at my lead character, you might see why I am afraid of a similar thing happening to me... *smile*

/me is scared to take of his RoE...

(and as far as I know from limited contact with Tezmac, Jonathan has not said anything as of a couple days ago.)

Tezmac October 23 2005 1:03 PM EDT

He hasn't said anything yet, but I was careful to only CM him twice about it. I think the problem deserves to be addressed as well, I just want to be careful to not earn myself a forum ban. I appreciate the support Sut, usually when you question things answers seem to find their way to surface. :O)

Mikel October 23 2005 1:13 PM EDT

I'm curious too, I just now got back up to the MPR that I was at before this happened.

QBsutekh137 October 23 2005 2:11 PM EDT

Yeah, sorry Mikel, I forgot almost the exact same thing happened to you... Weird indeed!

Derek October 23 2005 8:42 PM EDT

I had a similar problem that I documented a few months ago, except mine was a jump in MPR after untraining/retraining with the RoE. It seems MPR wasn't taking into account the extra XP from the RoE correctly.

This is a long shot but try unlearning/relearning a base FB or one strength or something on the minion that was wearing the RoE, that may correct the problem with the wrong MPR being shown.

Tezmac October 24 2005 12:18 PM EDT

I'm not taking any more chances with unlearning stuff, well, except for still using my RoE. :O)

None of my stat levels changed after the MPR drop and the amount of exp dumped into each of my minions didn't change either. I think it would be a pretty straightforward check for Jon to compare the current experience trained and the current MPR given to see that there is indeed an error of sorts, whether it be my MPR shown previously or my MPR shown now.

Derek October 24 2005 8:07 PM EDT

Just learn 2 strength on all your minions and then unlearn it, it's not going to hurt your character and it just might correct the problem.

Tezmac October 24 2005 8:41 PM EDT

Ok, I trained strength on all 4 of my minions, just a hundred exp on each, and then untrained it. Guess what, my PR went from 620k down to 615k, there's definitely something wrong. Any chance we could get Jon to look at what the heck is wrong with my character????

Synco October 24 2005 8:43 PM EDT

I did the same thing, and my MPR dropped 5k...I think.

I'm using an RoE as well.

! Love Barney October 24 2005 8:54 PM EDT

i just did the same and i actually gained 1,100 mpr. . .somethings wrong. (i also use a roe)

QBsutekh137 October 24 2005 9:04 PM EDT

I had a zero situation.

Learned tiny amount of Dexterity (from 20 to 87). MPR went from 191588 to 191594. (tiny).

Unlearned that dexterity, and my MPR went right back to 191588. Given the small rounding difference from unlearning loss, that was about right.

Dare I try more? No. I am too lazy and scared.

Derek October 24 2005 9:40 PM EDT

This appears to be some sort of bug where MPR is not being calculated correctly when people are using an RoE on a multi minion team, (since Sutekh is not having a problem with his RoE).

Probably the MPR calculation is being confused by one minion not gaining the same amount of experience as the others.

Tezmac October 24 2005 9:41 PM EDT

Well, here's what I think thus far, we'll see if Jon can confirm it or not.

The first time I changed my PR (by adding larger AGs) on the minion that had been using the RoE consistantly for about a month and my PR dropped about 50k, perhaps the differential between the MPR he would have "normally" earned vs the MPR he had earned whilest "RoE-ing."

This second time I unleared and relearned what couldn't have been more than 10 MPR on a different minion that had been using the RoE for about a 4-5 days and I earned myself a 5k drop in PR. Again this is perhaps the differential between the MPR he would have "normally" earned vs the MPR he had earned whilest "RoE-ing.

Conclusion? Adjusting the stats on a minion that has been using the RoE (by either upping equipment or unlearning) causes a drop in your overall MPR?

I guess I shouldn't view this as a bad thing though as my stats remain the same but my MPR drops, thus I earn higher rewards fighting the same opponents with my now lesser MPR.

I don't want to be seen as "abusing a bug" as I've now sent Jon 3 CMs and I've been in constant communication with Sut, our esteemed QB. :O)

Derek October 24 2005 9:47 PM EDT

Perhaps an admin should change the title of the thread to one that will catch Jon's attention.
Maybe "Attention Jon - Documented Bug Here" or something

Special J October 24 2005 10:04 PM EDT

Check.

Derek October 24 2005 10:05 PM EDT

Sweet :)

! Love Barney October 24 2005 10:23 PM EDT

jon might be workin on cb3

Special J October 24 2005 10:35 PM EDT

Jon is working, but not on CB. As it has been talked about recently, he is working on his paying job ;)

Tezmac October 24 2005 11:21 PM EDT

I figured that was probably the case, along with two youngsters in the house, one of which seems to be dangerously mobile. :O)

QBsutekh137 October 25 2005 1:11 AM EDT

And apparently chasing ghouls and goblins. Noisily.

Tezmac October 25 2005 4:27 PM EDT

Well, apparently it isn't a loss of MPR everytime. I just tried the learning and unlearning of 40 exp worth of ST again and I went from 621k to 623k MPR.

Synco October 25 2005 4:30 PM EDT

I tried it again as well, nothing happened.

Tezmac October 25 2005 6:24 PM EDT

Oooh, I earned myself another title change...special... :O)

Ilovehellokitty October 26 2005 5:49 PM EDT

is this thing fix yet? :P

Tezmac October 26 2005 6:07 PM EDT

Definitely not, but I hope Jon's looked at it.

I've been playing around trying to find a method to the madness by training small amount of exp and then unlearning. Alas, I have not found anything consistent yet, I may keep playing with the bug to see if I can figure it out, but I don't want to end up screwing up my character. :O)

AdminNightStrike October 27 2005 1:44 AM EDT

Perhaps you will be rewarded with some XP or something when it is all over.

AngryZac October 27 2005 9:10 AM EDT

I never knew Jon actually had a job...to me that's the most shocking thing in this post.

Wonderpuff October 27 2005 9:42 AM EDT

What exactly has people upset? Did any of your XP or Skill Points disappear, or are we all super-concerned that the number summarizing those things has decreased?

If your character stayed just as strong but lost significant MPR then you should be stoked. Lower PR vs Opponent Score = Higher Rewards.

Tezmac October 27 2005 9:45 AM EDT

I already stated that Wonderpuff. I also stated that it could be construed as abusing a bug and Id like to climb to the top without "cheating" so Ranger has no excuses when I get there. :O)

Synco October 27 2005 9:36 PM EDT

I switched the RoE to another minion and did it again.

I went from: PR / MPR: 483,505 / 432,720
To: PR / MPR: 481,886 / 431,101

AdminNightStrike October 29 2005 2:37 AM EDT

Has Jon told you ANYTHING yet?

Undertow October 29 2005 2:54 AM EDT

I believe that Jon hasn't commented yet, because he doesn't know why it's happening? :: shrug:: just a thought.

AdminJonathan November 10 2005 4:03 PM EST

Tezmac's guess that the RoE sometimes caused your MPR to be reported as larger than it really was until you untrained something (which causes a recalculation of MPR from scratch) was correct. Fixed.

QBsutekh137 November 10 2005 4:26 PM EST

Thank you, Jonathan (especially from Roe-wearers everywhere...) *smile*

Tezmac November 10 2005 4:31 PM EST

Ahh, thank you Jon!

Stephen Young November 10 2005 5:14 PM EST

I thought it was pretty strange that your graph shows MPR drop, but PR stayed constant. Notmall they mimic each other when MPR changes.

Stephen Young November 10 2005 5:15 PM EST

Ahem... Normally*

Revs November 10 2005 11:22 PM EST

So since in the last hour or so apparently that I was not on, my pr/mpr dropped like 20k I should untrain something then retrain to get what I lost back? I still don't understand how the value just drops out of no where. Particularly when a person isn't even online and playing. Can someone explain? And what exactly was fixed as this just happend to me sometime in the last 60 min? See my graph on Sixpence.

Tezmac November 10 2005 11:31 PM EST

I have the same problem still, I trained a small amount of ST (2 points) and unlearned it and my PR dropped 4k.

Intox November 10 2005 11:36 PM EST

My MPR rose about 40k after the recalc.

QBsutekh137 November 10 2005 11:40 PM EST

/me waits for a "Fixed better." *smile*

TrueDevil [AAA] November 11 2005 5:22 AM EST

wow, it seems that this is happening to people that didn't use RoE too, I just trained 2 str and untrained it, from 99300 mpr to 96 k something mpr, and fight some more, back to 99444 mpr, did the train 2 str and untrained it, end up with 98 k mpr. Shouldn't it be like nothing changes at all ? Even if there's changes, it should be 1-10 mpr, not 1-3 k MPR.

Although, I used RoE in the beginning.

AdminShade November 11 2005 5:53 AM EST

before MPR => 507,724

2 ST trained => MPR: 508,405

after untraining the 2 ST: 506,676

weird!

training 2 ST makes my mpr jump up almost 700, and untraining the same makes it go down some 1800

AdminShade November 11 2005 5:54 AM EST

but now this:

before MPR: 506,676

training 2 ST and 2 DX: 506,676

after untraining: 506,676


which makes perfect sense.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 11 2005 7:21 AM EST

I've used a RoE from after the first couple of fights on my NCB character (used a LToF to get enough XP to learn FB without have to use a weapon, so my max blow is still zero! ;P )

Johnny, I think our bet might have to go on hold until this is sorted, I've got an inflated MPR because of the RoE. (I don't want to win from inflated MPR...)

Before;

PR/MPR: 119,686/119,686 Max Tat lvl: 183,370

Trained 2 Str and Dex, nothing changed. unlearned both;

PR/MPR: 118,413/118,413 Max Tat lvl: 181,200

I lost 1273 MPR and 2150 from my tattoo level! (The tattoo level would hurt the most, if I was using a large enough tattoo...)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 11 2005 7:23 AM EST

I should also state, I'm not going to untrain anything else until this is fixed, as I don't want to inflate my NCB rewards by lowering my MPR. (Although, if the bug is MPR is inlfated, I *should* as I'm losing out on every fight I fight with a larger MPR than normal...)

Mikel November 11 2005 7:28 AM EST

Glad it's fixed, I think.... but now I just took a jump in the other direction... bumped up quite a bit of MPR overnight. I used to be about 20k MPR below Glory, now I'm almost 30k above him.

Mikel November 11 2005 7:37 AM EST

I just did a train/untrain and went from: 579,193 / 271,501 / 168,306 to Score / PR / MPR: 579,922 / 235,462 / 132,267. 36k difference in MPR..

Relic November 11 2005 10:28 AM EST

I just trained 2 HP on one of my enchanter minions, before training I was just shy of 160K MPR. I untrained the HP on that enchanter minion and my MPR is now 141K. A 19K drop.

/me thinks a pretty bug is in place.

Tezmac November 11 2005 12:01 PM EST

Good, I'm glad it's happening to many more of us, gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that it's not just me. :O)

Revs November 11 2005 2:51 PM EST

I'm not totally convinced this bug is totally mixed up in the training. In my case, my pr/mpr dropped without any untraining or training of new spells/stats. Mine dropped between the time I logged off and the time I came back on. It was during an inactive period.

Tezmac November 11 2005 2:52 PM EST

That's exactly how it happened to me the first time, which brought this whole thread up.

Revs November 11 2005 3:15 PM EST

Does this mean i have to put use my graph for a protrait too? lol ;)

The only theory I have left is that the math on exp gained/spent isn't adding up right, or maybe evenly. Possibly then its complicated with the RoE, not sure after Shades comment. And some feature or self-check recorrects on a random basis and drops the inflated amount. So in rounding out the loose ends, it drops the excess. That's all I can think of. What goes against this is the infrequency of it happening, so I really don't know and I'm just thinking out loud. Call the catharsis police.

Tez, quit putting off your weekend by wasting time on the forums. See ya. =]

AdminJonathan November 11 2005 3:47 PM EST

(I updated everyone's MPR yesterday when I made the fix, which is why some of you saw your MPR change without training.)

Now, the fix I made appears to have had the desired effect, which means something else is going on since people still see a similar bug. Some answers would help:

- Is anyone able to reproduce this without any intervening battles (by you or someone attacking you)? If not, how many battles appears to be the minimum?
- Is anyone able to reproduce this without a RoE?

Thanks.

Relic November 11 2005 4:13 PM EST

My Training of 2 HP and Untraining and losing 19K MPR occured this morning and I do not have or have had a RoE on this team for almost 5 days.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 11 2005 4:50 PM EST

Trained two Dex on my mage then untrained it. PR / MPR 101,210 / 57,208 Before.
PR / MPR: 98,234 / 53,953 After. Max Tattoo also dropped some.
I Havnt used an RoE for about 6 days now. Hope that helps some.

Tezmac November 11 2005 4:51 PM EST

I just had a few minutes where I wasnt attacked, all the below took place in that time.

My MPR started at 701979 after which I trained a tiny amount of ST and unlearned it, my MPR dropped to 697991 after this.

I fought about 20 battles without my RoE and using my FF and trained my exp and my MPR dropped to 697235. I then trained a small amount of ST and unlearned it, my MPR didnt drop.

I fought another 20 battles with my RoE on and trained, my MPR rose to 697306. I trained a small amount of ST and unlearned, my MPR didnt drop.

I repeated the above step again and my MPR rose to 697411, learned a small ST, untrained, and my MPR remained the same.

I'll be gone all weekend Jon, but after that, if no one has figured anything out, Ill be back and run more cases from you.


Just for Revelator, my weekend begins.....wait for it......waaaaiiiit for it....................NOW! See ya all later!

Special J November 11 2005 5:08 PM EST

I have never used a roe on my team, trained 2 dex and untrained it. Lost 10k MPR.

Relic November 12 2005 1:49 PM EST

Ok, this is getting weird. I started the day with about 160K MPR. I bought a full dose of BA and used my 160. I gained somewhere in the neighborhood of 400K exp across my 4 minions, maybe a little more. I trained all that exp and I gained over 40K MPR. Now, last time I checked 1.2 mil exp only equates to about 27K MPR. My Max Tattoo also grew by almost 100K, this behaviour seems odd. Jonathan, are you still looking in to this? Another thing, I did not untrain any exp, I will do that next and see what happens to my MPR and PR.

Relic November 12 2005 1:51 PM EST

Before Training: PR / MPR: 348,297 / 201,658
After Training: PR / MPR: 348,297 / 201,658
After Unlearning: PR / MPR: 311,167 / 164,528

Undertow November 12 2005 5:30 PM EST

I dropped 7k mpr training/untraining CoC. I've never used an RoE.

Undertow November 12 2005 5:32 PM EST

I did it again, and lost no MPR.

Maelstrom November 12 2005 5:33 PM EST

I gained 2.5k MPR after training 20 XP, and lost 32k when I untrained it... :(

Revs November 12 2005 6:55 PM EST

I wish I would've paid closer attention to where my pr/mpr was at yesterday. Today:
After fighting exp rewards, all ba, I'm up like 60k pr/mpr from where I was at yesterday. When I made the last post, I had lost ~20k pr/mpr which left me at 299k pr/mpr. Yesterday I had recovered maybe somewhere between 310k and 320k. But now I'm at 373k pr/mpr and that just seems rediculously impossible.

Rathershady November 12 2005 10:51 PM EST

Today I trained about 250k exp and my PR and MPR went up nearly 250k. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Now my score is lower than my PR. This is really weird.

Rathershady November 12 2005 10:56 PM EST

Ok untrained AMF while tweaking my stat and after retraining all of the bonus PR and MPR has disappeared.

Relic November 13 2005 1:48 AM EST

After much experimentation today here is what I have found.

PR and MPR get bloated from fighting opponents with scores above your PR. Only through training and then unlearning ANY amount of exp will your MPR and PR level and conversely your Max tattoo level return to the level they are actually at. For some reason, there is an inflated PR/MPR occuring for NUB, NCB, RoE users and I think normal run-of-the-mill users also. The act of unlearning any amount of trained exp is what triggers the return to status quo from what I can determine. Anyone else care to deliberate?

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] November 13 2005 1:57 AM EST

I'd just like to add mine to the pile of confirmed cases... After training, I had 474k MPR, then after training/untraining 3 ST it went back down its correct position at 456k. It is obviously important to do this every once in a while to keep rewards at a correct point until the bug is fixed... I think. ^^;;;

Mikel November 13 2005 2:47 AM EST

I'm not sure I understand it yet myself, I just noticed earlier than my MPR was up to 202k.. I trained/untrain EC on one of my E's and now I'm back down to 166k MPR. The only thing I have done is fight my 160 accumed and purchased all of my BA and used it as well.

AdminShade November 13 2005 9:21 AM EST

was 530k mpr, trained 2 st and untrained it again on the enchanter, lost 18k mpr making me 512k mpr again.

something makes people see a higher mpr than they actually are, and training something and untraining it seems to fix it?

QBRanger November 13 2005 9:24 AM EST

I agree with Shade,

I unlearned about 20k levels of protection and relearned it in VA. My MPR dropped by 5k which is way too much.

I think Shade is right in that a quick learn, unlearn will correct the MPR that is displayed.

{CB3}-HR22 November 13 2005 9:29 AM EST

Same with me...
---
Before:
PR / MPR: 702,934 / 505,881

ST: 22
---
After:
PR / MPR: 699,327 / 502,274

ST: 20
unlearned for 1xp
---
Relearned:
PR / MPR: 699,327 / 502,274

ST: 22

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 13 2005 10:29 AM EST

I haven't fought for a while (doing DIY) last fight at 10:23 by BGUK. Wasn't fought again while testing. Did the 2 Str Train, untrain.

Before PR/MPR & Max Tattoo: 163,656/162,879 & 260,270

After PR/MPR % Max Tattoo: 154,515/153,738 & 243,520

Revs November 13 2005 11:20 AM EST

k, here's some new testing info.

For fear of an inaccurate inflated pr/mpr with an RoE. I simply trained AS, and then untrained it to see what would happen. The following occurred:

Pre-train - PR / MPR: 376,391 / 376,191
Untraining AS - PR / MPR: 310,986 / 310,786

So total loss or inaccuracy of ~66k pr/mpr.
I believe the previous jump in pr/mpr in the last couple days was due to training over 100k exp at a time. Maybe the larger amount you train, the more inaccurate it ends up?

TrueDevil [AAA] November 13 2005 12:54 PM EST

I've been thinking the same concept as you Revelator, I think it's true, the more you saved up experience, and trained it later, the more MPR you will get because of the bug.

Revs November 13 2005 12:57 PM EST

I haven't changed strats, equipment, fired a minion, or untrained aside from the above experiment. For the most part, I do the same thing each day in fighting and training. Yet look at the chart for the last 5 days.

http://208.186.101.116/directory/graphs/party32974_1_1_5_days.png

It should only go up. There is no reason that pr/mpr should drop like this. Particularly over 60k drop.

Stephen Young November 13 2005 6:31 PM EST

Jonathan: I have never used a RoE. Training and unlearning 2 ST on my front enchanter caused my MPR to drop by 4,238 points.

Bootsanator November 13 2005 6:35 PM EST

/joins the party

Before:
MPR:381,921

Trains 2 ST, Untrains 2 ST

After:
MPR:379,918

Maelstrom November 14 2005 12:49 PM EST

Has this bug been fixed? I'm putting off training XP until I know that the MPR I'll gain is correct...

AdminShade November 14 2005 12:51 PM EST

not fixed, but people should just train normally...

Maelstrom November 14 2005 12:58 PM EST

But if I train normally, I'll get a messy graph! I already have one unusual MPR drop, I don't want a second whenever Jon fixes the problem...

Tezmac November 14 2005 1:06 PM EST

So what have we figured out thus far?

It's definitely not dependent on RoE usage.
It's definitely not dependent on anyone having a NUB or NUC.

So in what ways could MPR become inflated?

Maybe the clan bonus is adding to MPR incorrectly?
Maybe wacky time exp is adding to MPR incorrectly?
I dont think it has anything to do with exp gained from winning defensively as I dont think any of us have picked up 50k of MPR from defense.
Maybe it could be the internal calculation being incorrect due to fighting an opponent with a higher score/pr or maybe an opponent with a lower score/pr?

Seems like it could be many different things, or even a combination of things. I dont know how much help we are going to be to you on this one Jon.

Tezmac November 14 2005 1:06 PM EST

I meant NCB in that first sentence...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 14 2005 1:16 PM EST

I wonder if it's not just the display code? If VPR were being incorrectly figured we'd have a lot more problems don't you think?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 14 2005 1:22 PM EST

It's not just wacky XP time.

It could be Clan bonus, but I've a feeling it's more general.

Maelstrom November 14 2005 1:32 PM EST

Novice, I agree, I think that MPR is just being displayed incorrectly. For example, Neela X's character Desja has been growing like a cancer, yet does an almost insignificant amount of damage, compared to other single FB mages with similar MPR.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 14 2005 1:39 PM EST

I don't think my rewards and BA price were adversely effected when my pr was at 200k for all of five minutes.

AdminShade November 14 2005 1:47 PM EST

it's not even clan bonus, since this also happened to me on a Sunday.

AdminShade November 14 2005 2:03 PM EST

I checked some more things from some more people and have some facts and ideas:

Facts:
- The bug affects MPR being displayed too high, and thus also affecting PR.
- The bug isn't being affected by clan bonuses, NUB, NCB, wacky exp time, forging, blacksmithing, loaning out items or rentals.
- The bug can be fixed by training something basic, 1 ST on an enchanter, and untraining it again.
- The longer a player waits for this 'manual correction' the higher the MPR difference it will be.


Ideas:
- Is the bug tattoo/rune/familiar related, in a way that having either one equipped (even with RoE while it doesn't gain levels) makes the MPR bugged some?

If so then people not using any tattoo/rune/familiar should be unaffected. But difficulty is finding those people...

If not then everybody who is fighting is affected, and then it would either be an exp calculation, but this happens while not training any experience also, so it is something we players can't even try to control. So the thought of it being restricted to tattoo/rune/familiar users is wrong also imo, but still possible.



So then how does the mpr get so high?

- Calculation of MPR is flawed while fighting, as in getting calculated wrongly and displayed, though while fighting a players mpr isn't calculated, and has nothing to do with any tattoos/runes/familiars.
- Some other factor has to do with calculating the MPR, but which, since it is done by training experience...

TrueDevil [AAA] November 14 2005 2:04 PM EST

If it's just MPR display bug, then why the tattoo max lvl is effected by this bug ? Because I've tried it before few months ago (this already happened quite a long time ago) , I had an oversized tattoo, and it was growing normally, until I retrained something very small, and it decreased my MPR by 50 k, the oversized tattoo stopped growing.

AdminShade November 14 2005 2:05 PM EST

" If it's just MPR display bug, then why the tattoo max lvl is effected by this bug ?"

tattoo max level is linked to MPR...

TrueDevil [AAA] November 14 2005 2:12 PM EST

so it's based just on display ? because I thought there will be more complicated coding that linked MPR and max tattoo level. =)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] November 14 2005 3:21 PM EST

It could actually be a problem with VPR.

One thing we need to remember is that VPR has never meant your actual MPR since training still raises your PR further.
This could mean that the calculation is slightly off at times and the training brings it back to the true MPR?

AdminShade November 14 2005 3:30 PM EST

Wrong zoglog:


VPR = MPR when you trained ALL your experience.

AdminShade November 14 2005 3:33 PM EST

Correction on my half for a former post of mine:

I only seem to be affected when training experience after a long time of fighting...

just trained 1 point of Antimagic Field and it raised my mpr with 5k...

after training another point, my mpr doesn't go up, so it is the first train you make (or i made) after a while of fighting that made my MPR jump up too much.

TrueDevil [AAA] November 15 2005 4:18 AM EST

ok sorry, I think it's true that this is just a display bug, it doesn't effect Max tattoo level, my max tattoo level has already passed my tattoo level but my tattoo hasn't gained any exp at all.

Maelstrom November 15 2005 6:50 AM EST

Actually, it looks like the problem may be related to tattoo growth being added to MPR, not just PR.

I hadn't trained since Saturday (or sometime around there), and I just trained 10XP into ST: my MPR went up 17k.

Since my tattoo was the only thing growing during that time, I'm guessing that's what it is.

AdminShade November 15 2005 6:55 AM EST

Maelstrom: also people with a tattoo that doesn't grow are affected (RoE)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 15 2005 6:55 AM EST

But RoE s don't grow. And that's the only tattoo (Bar 1 or two fights in the beginning with a LToF) I've used on Tate.

48Zach November 15 2005 7:40 AM EST

NOOOOOO! I just lost 8k MPR for training my innocent 50k exp.....now im back to 20k MPR...it took me soo long. i should be like 35k MPR now...I was 28k MPR , trained 50k exp. then went to 20k..... >.<

Undertow November 15 2005 8:33 AM EST

RoE's might not grow, but depending on how the game is coded it might still try to add levels to the RoE before it's told not to. And if that's the case, it might add to your pr before it adds to the tats level. So it would add to your pr before it's stopped from adding to the tattoo.

I'm just saying, just because the RoE doesn't gain levels, doesn't mean it doesn't have some of the same code, and then just stop the process at the end.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 15 2005 8:41 AM EST

Ah! Very good point!

AdminShade November 15 2005 9:19 AM EST

I think the RoE works differently though, having it have a static bonus, just like other bonus items used to have.

YOU November 15 2005 9:58 AM EST

60k mpr jumped for 100k exp trained :(...this is insane.

Rathershady November 15 2005 11:48 AM EST

Maybe the RoE does have a variable that tracks exp gained. Before you flip out at me I want to posit a possible chain of actions that would allow this to happen. First when going to code the RoE perhaps someone decided to borrow some code from one of the other tats, why reinvent the wheel? They then deleted the portion that equates exp to leveling or effect changes, but the variable that tracks exp may have remained. I am not saying this is what happened but it is plausible. So maybe the RoE does keep track of Exp earned.

Yohan November 15 2005 12:02 PM EST

I used to try to keep up with Caedmon's MPR as sort of an aim higher goal.
However, as his 5 day chart shows 100k MPR increase with no NUB/NCB/ROE

Outlaw November 15 2005 12:54 PM EST

Well I have found that I lost 40k MPR trying this, but I do think doing that brings down to the right MPR. My Max Tattoo thing went down about 50k. I'm still new so maybe I shouldn't be talking.

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] November 15 2005 3:15 PM EST

holy hell, i just learned and unlearned 2 str (advice by someone) and i lost 100k mpr :(

Revs November 15 2005 10:21 PM EST

My pr/mpr graph for the last 5 days is a roller coaster without any of the fun =[

My fightlist isn't changing any, but its still a wonder where I really stand in growth. I've gone from guaging a potential opponents pr/mpr in relation to mine for a win or loss, to just guess work and trial and error. So your welcome to all I've blindly given exp to. =]

Tezmac November 18 2005 1:41 PM EST

I didn't think about the problem perhaps only being a display issue, I guess it could be. I'm sure Jon has been working on it, doesn't sound like it's an easy thing to find and figure out...

Peter at home November 19 2005 8:51 AM EST

I don't know what is happening, but is it possible when people are using RoE and fighting a lot, their MPR is rising more then it should (bug is here) and when they untrains something the MPR fixes itself, but to them it seems like there is a bug in untraining (though there is no bug here)?

AdminShade November 19 2005 8:54 AM EST

Peter: it also happens to non RoE people so that can't be it.

QBRanger November 19 2005 9:01 AM EST

Just happened to me.

My MPR was 1,058,582 and I trained 1k xp on each minion. It went up to 1,070,xxx.

Then I learned 2 str and unlearned it. My MPR is now 1,040,048.

Very strange indeed.

AdminShade November 19 2005 9:07 AM EST

Perhaps we shouldn't focus on what happens anymore (everybody now knows what it DOES) but on what is causing it (we dont know why it is happening)

in other words: its no use to keep on saying 'this happened to me also' because it clearly happens to everyone.

{CB1}-Mokaba November 19 2005 9:09 AM EST

Don't look at it than everything is fine :)

Peter at home November 19 2005 11:40 AM EST

Then I think we can't do much since we don't know much how MPR is calculated from exp trained on a minion, only Jon knows the formula. (Or did someone else knows?).
If we would know the formula, we could manually calculate it and see the difference and from there find out where is the bug.

Right now we can only guess.
As I stated before, there might be a bug when you train exp (the MPR is not recalculated but just added X which somehow corresponds to the amount of exp trained).

But when you untrain, you can't just substract X from the MPR, but the MPR has to be recalculated from scratch.

Peter at home November 19 2005 5:01 PM EST

I made a test about the hypothesis I stated above.
I was training different amounts of exp each time I trained (with each of my 4 minions got the same amount each time) and I extrapolated that I get 10 PR for 60 exp trained on each minion.
I was training 60 exp, 100 exp, 200 exp... and then the increase of PR was as expected.
And at on 7th time I trained 180 exp and my PR went up by 967, but it should increase by 30.
Then I trained a little DX and untrained it and my PR went by 937 (as it should be before I made the training/untraining routine.

My hypothesis is correct, but I don't know exactly when the bug in training happens.

Also and observation. Max tattoo is only increasing after you fight and train, so I guess it is tied to VPR... But maybe it might or might not have something to do with the bug.

Special J November 19 2005 5:42 PM EST

VPR increases without training your XP earned, max tat is tied to your MPR which is trained XP only.

Peter at home November 19 2005 6:07 PM EST

True, but I collected some nice amount of exp to see how Max tattoo increases. I trained 36k exp and max tattoo did not increase.
Only after I fought 10 battles and then trained, was the Max tattoo changed.

Special J November 19 2005 6:09 PM EST

max tattoo is not updated right away either, it lags a bit behind as has been discussed before.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001ZQy">Tezmac's MPR bug report</a>