Yet another NUB post, but this time a tweak. (in General)


AdminShade November 1 2005 3:31 PM EST

Now I know everybody is tired of seeing these posts but still, can't hurt for me to try and get some minds working.

Now this is my idea about tweaking the NUB, let it work the same way as the BA replenishing works now.

In other words:

10 / 10 BA = full NUB
9 / 10 BA = 90% of the NUB
8 / 10 BA = 80% of the NUB
7 / 10 BA = 70% of the NUB

NUB users might now say, NO don't touch my NUB, but honestly when they scale up to higher regions they shouldn't even notice this so much.

Also this makes players having the NUB need to make better efforts in spending more time (or more BA) on the game while still giving them the benefit of the NUB.

And to be fair, this should affect the new users that sign up after the change imo, but as it is only an idea, it's only an idea :)

YOU November 1 2005 3:44 PM EST

this idea left nub/usd/ forger alone.

QBsutekh137 November 1 2005 3:48 PM EST

An interesting idea, though in some aspects it seems a bit inverted...

As a team gets higher and higher, it gets harder to reap huge rewards by beating those far, far above you (because there simply aren't people high, high above you any more). Adding a NUB reduction to that circumstance would make the gains even slower.

I would go along with your idea, but would reverse the trend -- a smaller percentage of the NUB when a player is at 10/10 and then progressively more at the higher ends. Jonathan made the 15% NUB reduction because he was tweaking the fact that new players were reaping huge benefits at the low end as they were able to prey upon juicy (often-times dormant) targets as they climbed. Giving smaller rewards at the low end would make the climb slower.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 1 2005 3:58 PM EST

suketh, that made no sense...lol

Shades makes sense, once you understand the game, why do you need more and more aid on your side?, 10/10 BA, you dont know the game fully yet, so you have a full NUB and a chance to use BA to your advantage, and just like everybody else, you'll once get to 7/10 BA, to suffer through the slow times, to sooner or later get to the point of no NUB, just like everybody else.

Make it so the new user gets used to the rewards he'll be getting when the NUB expires, not get him excited that hes getting better and better rewards, and then the next day 0% NUB.

Shades example in a nutshell:

New user starts out - around 100$ per battle
9/10 BA - 200$ per battle
8/10 BA - 250$ per battle
7/10 BA - 275$ per battle
No NUB - 200$ per battle

Suketh's example:
New user starts out - around 100$ per battle
9/10 BA - 225$ per battle
8/10 BA - 400$ per battle
7/10 BA - 625$ per battle
No NUB - 200$ per battle

Shades seems sensible...lol.

QBsutekh137 November 1 2005 4:12 PM EST

small, my example is obviously still normalized to 1, where 1 represents current NUB.

One starts with a lesser portion of the NUB, and ends up with what they currently would have at 7/10.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 1 2005 4:20 PM EST

The % bonus from the NUB decreases as it stands, I'm not sure what that is based on, mpr, time or something else, anyone know? So this is effectively what happens now anyway.

QBRanger November 1 2005 4:24 PM EST

As I have been told, the NUB does NOT decrease over time until it abruptly ends.

[SoM]CupofJoe [Peoples Bank of Carnage] November 1 2005 4:27 PM EST

Would lessening the NUB's effectiveness and granting more BA regeneration be another alternative.

Now I don't mean give them more BA regeneration per say. I mean let them regen 10 for a little longer than we did, and then 9, and so on.

This in turn would lessen the bonus and make them have to click more to earn the top spot a little differently.

Please keep in mind that I am neither for nor against the NUB.

I just wish I had something :)

AdminShade November 1 2005 4:50 PM EST

Well Sutekh, that could be an idea also, but however this would make a NUB player having less effort when in the higher regions...

And about the forger that I left out, on the contrary, even that is a reward, but not fighting... so perhaps I should have reworded it a bit.

but smallpaul, your idea in a nutshell was a nice idea but malperformed:

hades example in a nutshell:

New user starts out - around 100$ per battle
9/10 BA - 200$ per battle
8/10 BA - 250$ per battle
7/10 BA - 275$ per battle
No NUB - 200$ per battle

Suketh's example:
New user starts out - around 100$ per battle
9/10 BA - 225$ per battle
8/10 BA - 400$ per battle
7/10 BA - 625$ per battle
No NUB - 200$ per battle

Shades seems sensible...lol.

a non NUB user would make $100 a fight but a NUB user with 150% NUB now would now make $250.

so the new user starts out with $250 when 10/10
the new user would get 90% of the NUB, being 135% when reaching 9/10 and making 100+135 = 235 then, but of course this amount would be higher because of the 10/9 scale also, so I think the player would make $261 then, not compensated for higher rewards due to fighting higher characters but still an idea.

So a summary:

current situation, non NUB:

10 / 10 : $100
9 / 10 : $111,11 {Calculation: (10 / 9) * 100 = 111,11}
8 / 10 : $125
7 / 10 : $143

current situation, NUB:

10 / 10 :$250
9 / 10 : $278 {Calculation: (10 / 9) * (150 + 100) = 277.777}
8 / 10 : $313
7 / 10 : $357

Shade's Idea:

10 / 10 : $250
9 / 10 : $261 {Calculation: (((9/10) * 150) + 100) * (10 / 9) = 261.111}
8 / 10 : $275
7 / 10 : $293

Sutekh's Idea:

10 / 10 : $175 {Calculation (7 / 10) * (150 + 100) = 175}
9 / 10 : $222 {Calculation ((8 / 10) * (150 + 100)) * (10 / 9) = 222,222}
8 / 10 : $281 {Calculation ((9 / 10) * (150 + 100)) * (10 / 8) = 281,25}
7 / 10 : $357 {Calculation ((150 + 100) * (10 / 8) = 357,143}


and now for the comparisons:

making non NUB rewards being 100%

Current situation:

10 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
9 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
8 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
7 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
(than non nub)

Shade's idea:

10 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
9 / 10 makes NUB gain 135% more rewards
8 / 10 makes NUB gain 120% more rewards
7 / 10 makes NUB gain 105% more rewards
(than non nub)

Sutekh's idea:

10 / 10 makes NUB gain 75% more rewards
9 / 10 makes NUB gain 100% more rewards
8 / 10 makes NUB gain 125% more rewards
7 / 10 makes NUB gain 150% more rewards
(than non nub)

Sutekh, go ahead to make your remarks :)

QBsutekh137 November 1 2005 5:05 PM EST

It's all good, and is a nifty idea any way you cut it... Bigger rewards at the end (my tweak) does seem kind of counter-intuitive, I will admit...

Another thing to realize is that a NUB playing hard will be in 9/10 range in almost no time at all, and then 8/10 not long after. I have no NUB and play a moderate amount, and I was within the 8/10 range within 2 months. I would bet a NUB player reaches 8/10 in about a month if they get in 18-20 hours worth of BA a day.

CupOfJoe, various schemes for requiring more clicking instead of just enhancing rewards have been proposed before. Jonathan has clearly stated he prefers the reward method. My idea was to make more BA available for purchase (at a very low price) so that at least a new user would still have to click a lot.

AdminShade November 1 2005 5:53 PM EST

So sutekh, a newb with the NUB would reach almost the same NUB % with your idea, whereas they would get a lower % with my idea.

both seem to be able to work i think, but it's time for me to go sleep :)

QBsutekh137 November 1 2005 6:09 PM EST

Night night. *smile*

QBRanger November 1 2005 7:56 PM EST

I was going to post this on a new thread but this works just as well.

Why do players with the NUB benefit from crazy xp and money time?

They already get crazy money AND xp all the time.

Just wondering.

! Love Barney November 1 2005 7:59 PM EST

I'm going to assume that the cost for ba will also reduce as the ba generating goes down. (less of a nub less of a fee)

Hyrule Castle November 1 2005 10:25 PM EST

is it possible for me to make a character with nub... since i recently restarted playing this game and am not very good?
or is this against the rules

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] November 1 2005 10:39 PM EST

Hyrule, the only way to do that is to create a multi... and strangely enough that is against the rules. ;)


Shade, I do like your idea... I agree that something like this should be done... but with a little tweaking.
See, as it is, you're actually reducing the NUB. They don't get the full effect from it for very long... which isn't right. If the starting % were a little higher than 100% of the NUB, then this would be good. The real newbs get a nice bonus and the semi-newbs get the reduced bonus.

However there's no way I'm going to agree with the NUB being nerfed, and that's basically what you're suggesting here.

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] November 1 2005 10:52 PM EST

So basically your saying that the over effect of the NUB would be the same as it is now but they would be seeing lower rewards the higher their MPR MrChuckles? I like this idea. This would prepare them for the lesser rewards they will be receiving once their NUB expires but keep the same overall effect and help them pass the duldrums of the lower mpr faster. Of course I can see noob forges playing a mpr game and keeping it just below the next ba refresh rate to keep the higher NUB.

Ilovehellokitty November 1 2005 10:58 PM EST

I was going to post this on a new thread but this works just as well.
Why do players without the NUB and have a cb1 account benefit from crazy xp and money time from both accounts and have a nice cb2 conversion at the end of the week?

They already get crazy money AND xp all the time times 2.
Just wondering.

Special J November 1 2005 11:43 PM EST

Twice the work.

Next.

Synco November 1 2005 11:48 PM EST

Wuss is right, they click more. New players do not.

Wonderpuff November 1 2005 11:58 PM EST

Yes. Clicking is backbreaking labor. I'm sure that the barrier to new players advancing without the NUB would be an unwillingness to click more.

I'm doubly certain that if you placed a button next to the fight button labeled "Free Money Here" that people would be unwilling to click because of their fatigue.

Special J November 2 2005 12:09 AM EST

And again Wonderpuff takes something out of context and tries to look smart.

Wonderpuff November 2 2005 12:15 AM EST

I don't even have to try. Don't be sad that your flip response was inadequate :/

QBsutekh137 November 2 2005 1:15 AM EST

As my namesake said on his wonderful Doctor Who episode, "Your argument is a cloud, but I see through it..."

No, clicking is not "backbreaking". Nothing about this game is backbreaking. It's about the _relative_ "work".

In fact, you almost defeat your own point, 'puff. Not only has a fellow like Ranger clicked more, he kept it up over a LONGER TIME amidst more and varied changes.

Not sure it really matters with the NCB now. I still hope Kitty continues so we can see what the NUB yields with four months of good BA usage...

QBRanger November 2 2005 4:29 AM EST

Well Kitty: Guess you are not quitting-Good. I have pulled a Todd or 2 in my day.

Now to the faulty logic of yours and Wonderpuff's posts:

In cb1 I can make about 300k a day. With the conversion rate of 6 to 1 that's 50k more. So I can make 100k total from both games. Compared to over 300k a day by someone with the NUB. Also money buys a lot more now then even 4 months ago. A MH back in the old days was 3 million base. An ELB was 4 million plus. Now you can buy them for 1/2 that. The only item holding its value is a corn. So while new players have to play "catch up", they can do so buying cheaper items. But I am in favor of the increased rewards to some degree. I'll leave that degree to Jon.

I certainly can benefit from xp time in cb1 while new players cannot. But you can agree that does NOT help my cb2 character grow. So the logic there is quite flawed.

The clicking is not that big a deal in cb1. My character there is sort of on autopilot.

But you and others assumed my latest post in the more congrats to kitty thread was an attack on the NUB, but it was just MY idea of when you will pass me. Already I have gotten very nasty CM's out that. But such is the fate of someone who has a strong opinion.

AdminShade November 2 2005 5:35 AM EST

also kitty:

Not every cb1 player cashes out for cb2, some even do the opposite, play cb2 to pay for cb1 items...

And some people just spend what they have on cb1 for cb1 things also...

Ilovehellokitty November 2 2005 8:07 AM EST

There is a fine line between strong oponion and being a jerk about it. And with the new changelog i will be more gladly to fight against strong players and No i wont be sour about it. That's the different about character and/or you and I.

There will be now 100 more kitty's willing to take up that challenge. Yay. I can't wait to see. Failure also the hardest challenge so far for me. And he has made my cb time more fun and exciting.

I love you Chappy so so much.

Ilovehellokitty November 2 2005 8:26 AM EST

and I do understand about cb1 $ trading as i just try to make a point how that was omitted every time Ranger came up with some comparing numbers. Sure, i would click 5 times more if there is a "free money button" but i don't have it. So, if cb1 helps Ranger in gaining cb2 and i can't do the same, please include it into your NUB calculation as "fair" as one can. Again, I am not being sour or care about it. Just try to balance how much my NuB can make vs. Ranger +cb1+usd.

The worst thing about it all, Ranger. And i know it kills you, that i didn't come to cb to make a buck and/or waste a buck either.

Bla bla bla, I love you so so much Chappy.

QBRanger November 2 2005 8:57 AM EST

Kitty,

I never said you came to cb2 to make a buck. Ever. Others with the NUB have. I personally do not care if you do or not. And I never came up with comparing number of cb2 made. I only stated that the buying power the NUB people have now is more than the buying power that was there in the old days of cb2.

As I have said, yet again, the cb2 increase from the NUB is needed. I do not know where you come up with the fact that I am against that.

It is the xp that is the main problem I have with the NUB. But if you cannot handle or take criticism or even someone saying something bad about you, perhaps you should stay away from the forums.

I am only pointing out when you will pass my MPR as an example of how over powerful the NUB is. Again, a NUB is needed but the current level is too much.

And as to my usd usage, there are plenty others who use far far more than I do.

Ilovehellokitty November 2 2005 10:16 AM EST

Before you bring my name up please consider how I feel too. I am NOT welcoming you use me to protect the top spot. Everytime you loaned me something (for free?) a post popped up under 24 hours. My whole clan knew what you were trying to do when you "helped" me. But then i respected you as a experience player and actually believed you were trying to help the community. Now, the QB in front is really fading out and completely disappear. A simple fact that you can talk about my perk with NUB which you don't have, where i can't talk about your perk with cb1 which i don't have, and invited me out of the conversation (forum) shows me you don't really have a fair attitude over all.

All I ask is leave me alone from your wonderful contribution to the NUB. Your problem is NOT mine.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 2 2005 10:27 AM EST

Don't worry Kitty, I hope to pass you in a couple of months (well, some time after the 15th of December!).

I eagerly await my first "Congratulations!" post! >;)

[EG] Almuric November 2 2005 11:03 AM EST

Ranger says: "if you cannot handle or take criticism or even someone saying something bad about you, perhaps you should stay away from the forums."

Pot, meet kettle.

QBRanger November 2 2005 11:32 AM EST

Huh,

That makes no sense.

How does pot meet kettle?

AdminNightStrike November 2 2005 11:39 AM EST

"...in the old days of cb2. "

........11 months?.......

AdminNightStrike November 2 2005 11:39 AM EST

What is this CB1:CB2 conversion of which you speak?

QBsutekh137 November 2 2005 12:12 PM EST

NightStrike, a popular tactic (especially early on) was to keep playing CB1 and sell the cash there for CB2 cash here. A practice I found despicable, but was about the only one.

It has not been much of a factor for many, many months now. I would say it had little to no effect already by March or April of this year, though it did give some teams substantial early gains. However, camping and USD began to far outweigh any effect the CB1 cash may have had, and many of those early teams have since been retired anyway.

Tezmac November 2 2005 12:19 PM EST

"Pot, meet kettle"

I said the same thing to him a few months back, he didn't get it then either, yet the problem persists.

AdminNightStrike November 2 2005 12:29 PM EST

Oh. From the posts, it seemed like people were directly converting MPR or XP from the two separate games.

AdminShade November 2 2005 12:29 PM EST

it was about money: CB1:CB2 meant $CB1 and $CB2...

QBRanger November 2 2005 12:58 PM EST

Tezmac.

Typically when one says "Pot calling the Kettle black", refers to criticism that could equally apply to the critic.

I told Almuric to leave if he could not take the heat and told Kitty the same. But I have not left the forums. How is that related to the saying Almuric quoted?

It is one thing to throw out a saying but another to use it correctly. The line between people laughing with you and at you is thin.

AdminJonathan November 2 2005 1:01 PM EST

Perhaps they were referring to your characterization of Kitty as someone who cannot handle criticism.

Substitute "Ranger" for Kitty above and ... whoa! It's like... twins! Like a pot and a kettle, even!

Tezmac November 2 2005 1:10 PM EST

/me reminds himself to never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.

QBRanger November 2 2005 1:14 PM EST

But I guess its ok to call someone a jerk if they disagree with you.

That's a perfectly adult way of handling criticism.

AdminJonathan November 2 2005 1:28 PM EST

You're right. "Bully" would have been more accurate.

[EG] Almuric November 2 2005 1:36 PM EST

Ranger, there are so many times that you cried about how you didn't like what I (and a few others) were saying about you, I just thought that you throwing out a line like that was pretty much the epitome of hypocrisy.

It's maybe ironic to the rest of us, but mostly hypocritical from the point of view of the author. Maybe it should be be hypo-ironic... or something.

Perhaps Bast or someone with a fine arts degree would know the best term; I'm just an engineer.

Relic November 2 2005 1:41 PM EST

I shouldn't even say anything, but I can't help myself....

Please stop with the personal attacks. Complain all you want about whatever you want, but rise above the pettiness of personal and degrading statements. We are better than that.

/me breaks into song...."Can you feel the Love Tonight"....

Seriously though, it is much better when you play nice, play as hard as you like, but play nice and the community as a whole will be a more fun and positive experience for all. =)

Special J November 2 2005 1:45 PM EST

MM is the bully, this has been clearly stated!

AdminShade November 2 2005 2:14 PM EST

why are people flaming each other (well just talking loud if not flaming) in my idea thread???


:\

thought I'd be the to be flamed but guess not...

AdminNightStrike November 2 2005 11:33 PM EST

Probably for the same reason that Sefton gave in response to the giant post I made in Ranger's "kitty" thread in Off-topic (that's a lot of prepositoinal phrases.....) People, when they see a thread on this topic, ignore posts that provide solutions instead of complaints. Or, instead, people treat every post like a complaint instead of a solution. The wheat is burned with the chaff, as it were. I like your idea. I like mine, as well.

I found a post that Jon made in July. Maybe I can find it again.

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001POf

<quote>
yes, this situation sucks

but at least CB2 solves it halfway: if you play as hard as the top players from the time you start, just like they did, you will be able to catch up thanks to the NUB. which is why I like the NUB and some people currently at the top are scared of it.

I have no brilliant ideas to allow people who have been slackers to catch up while keeping CB2 fair for everyone else.
</quote>

Several people have provided the brilliant ideas, but they go unnoticed. Hopefully, this NCB is a brilliant enough idea.

Maelstrom November 2 2005 11:40 PM EST

NightStrike, I like your punctuation. =)

AdminNightStrike November 3 2005 1:35 AM EST

hmm?

Gilgamesh2090 [NCB Shop] November 3 2005 2:33 AM EST

Come now Glory and Shade! - we will gather by the river in a circle to sing about friendship (and how we are very lucky to relate an online game to a difficulty in our lives instead of much more serious things)

Glory you select the song...Shade...I see you as a dramatist!...act! XD
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001aPM">Yet another NUB post, but this time a tweak.</a>