November 24 2005 11:35 PM EST
Because PR calculation wasn't complex enough, a "PR weight" has been added to all armor. This factor influences how much the armor's NW affects your PR. If two pieces of armor have the same NW, the one with higher PR weight will increase your PR more.
Initially, there are three levels of PR weight: 0.2, 0.3, and 1.0. Prior to this change, all armor had an effective weight of 0.22, so some items saw a minor decrease, and the others an increase. (Tattoos have no PR weight since they are still accounted for separately.)
The weight of a specific class of armor is shown on the Stats -> Items -> Overview page.
November 24 2005 11:38 PM EST
Nice change, I think?
Nice change! I like it...=)
November 24 2005 11:39 PM EST
yep, very nice - mage armors are heavier, tank armors are lighter from what I saw when looking.. ^_^
November 24 2005 11:43 PM EST
Seems the only items with a PR of 1.0 are a corn, AG, and COI.
November 24 2005 11:48 PM EST
Hm, those appear to be the types of item that mages use most often! I'm sure I can deduce a conclusion from this, but I'm just not sure what it would be.... *winks at Ranger*
November 25 2005 12:00 AM EST
Take that mages.
November 25 2005 12:06 AM EST
Ouch, he got me!
I must say, my character doesn't like this change :`(
But as a player, I like it. It helps to keep things balanced, and adds a bit more strategy :)
November 25 2005 12:18 AM EST
My PR jumped over 200K with this change. A little much imo, but we will see. Are you trying to nerf my potential 2 mil MPR post NCB Jonathan? :P
November 25 2005 12:19 AM EST
lol My PR jumped just as much. Had to tone it down some.
November 25 2005 12:22 AM EST
Corns albeit very useful have much less affect in the early stages of MPR. It is only after you are much higher than Corns have tremendous benefit imo. Shouldn't the PR weighting be a sliding scale based on real benefit (actual increase) rather than percentage based?
November 25 2005 12:35 AM EST
Let's take aupStar's character Alucard for example. He is wearing DB's, AG's, and a Corn. Here are his stats. Score / PR / MPR: 1,069,301 / 596,287 / 567,886. Now, his Corn is probably +7 or so (guessing) and his 14% bonus equates to a lot more benefit than that of my three corns, and yet his PR is virtually untouched. If you add in the benefit he is deriving from AG's it seems that this change is slanted toward helping higher MPR characters to get better rewards from having lower PR's and hurting smaller teams with good items. Is that part of the reasoning behind the change Jonathan?
November 25 2005 1:12 AM EST
Ok, third post in a row...Shouldn't all PR increase be based on actual affect, not NW? I mean, for straight AC the NW tied to PR idea makes sense. However, a +10 pair of AG's for example give 10% increase, to a level 100K spell that is only 10K, whereas a level 1 mil spell, that is 100K. Both are doing 10% increase, should not the effective PR increase be tied to effective DD/ED and the like increases? It is late and maybe my brain has shut down for the night, but I think the NW/PR thing needs rethinking...
! Love Barney
November 25 2005 1:33 AM EST
can someone explain how this works?
what affects the pr? the nw and the lvl of weight?
if a corn(1.0 weight) has a nw of 300k how much pr will it add?
Glory it's not like Jon hasn't been going this way for ever, he saw that it was still possible to exploit NW for unruly gains, and once again nerfed it...but how much did Dawg's PR go down I wonder...
All I can say is YAY....I get much larger rewards now. Looks like whacky day for every day. <----seems like it.
My weight went down by 0.06!
Better than Weight Watchers! ;)
November 25 2005 4:52 AM EST
DAWG's PR going down?
Read again what Jon did.
DAWG's PR went up, above his score.
! Love Barney
November 25 2005 4:46 PM EST
i thought base items didnt raise ur pr.
i put a base corn on my enchanter and my pr raised 150 point.
its not big but for where i am right now...its quite a difference.
I agree that something needs to be done about armor pr. But if this is the answer, then the cost of raising a 1.0 weight item needs to drop a bit, since we pay for it now in PR, or at the very least, make it more comparable to the other items since it has a negative bonus now. Ever seen how much it takes to raise a pair of AG's from +12 to +15?
November 25 2005 6:38 PM EST
YES my pr jumped way up... dang... just when I thought I was doing better with the whole pr thing...
oh well giving up again on that just gonna be huge so nobody can touch... lol
November 25 2005 11:14 PM EST
I must be pretty blind. I don't see the change on the overview page.
November 25 2005 11:16 PM EST
Put the cursor over an item.
November 26 2005 12:20 AM EST
Um.. can we change so that the description of the item so that they can be wrapped to new lines if they are too long?
I'm using FF and mouse hover over some items have the description cut off at the right side of the screen. There is no way I can see what is the weight for some of them.
use a smaller screen resolution.
November 26 2005 8:40 AM EST
quite a change.... ?
/me still doesn't get all this talk of weight...
November 26 2005 11:34 AM EST
The weight thingie will affect how much pr is added when you equip armor gears. Initially, all armor added the same amount of pr based on their nw. Now, some armor will add more pr while others will add slightly less.
November 26 2005 11:34 AM EST
Say you've got a pair of AG's, and a pair of leather gloves.
Now, say they both have a NW of 300k.
The AG's, because they have a higher "weight" will affect your pr more.
November 26 2005 11:38 AM EST
Probably the AG's add 5x more to your PR than the equivalent NW leather gloves. PR weight of 1.0 vs PR weight of 0.2.
November 26 2005 11:38 AM EST
Arorrr, I'm with you: the items with longer descriptions get cut off when hovering over them. It's nothing to do with screen resolution, since there's still plenty of room on my screen.
November 26 2005 11:40 AM EST
my only thing is how is a Corn heavier than an Adamantite Cuirass
November 26 2005 11:42 AM EST
it's PR weight, not physical weight.
November 26 2005 12:31 PM EST
Yeah, this change absolutely killed my rewards. I had to drop all my mage gear and rebuild my fightlist.
November 26 2005 12:35 PM EST
Ummm.. how much of a resolution before I can see the weight of such lengthy item description, such as BoM?
I have mine at 1152x864 and consider it's good enough.
Any plans on restructuring the CB2 cost per +, on the 1.0 Weight Items? Would seem fair now since alot of the armor for tanks and walls is in the .2 and .3 range.
November 26 2005 4:23 PM EST
I'm assuming you mean lower the cost per + on 1.0 weight items. While I'd love to see this happen, it seems that would defeat the purpose of this change.
November 27 2005 10:21 AM EST
not entirely, with the addition of the TSA, the Armor Weight, it gives the appearance of making the game even more tank oriented.
November 27 2005 11:03 AM EST
I just want to see the arguments now on an equally NWed mage vs equally NWed tank. With Corn, AGs, and CoI all having a weight of 1.0, investing heavily in those items (I am talking 50 to 100 million) would be a crushing PR growth.
So, anyone think ToAs are overpowered? *smile*
November 27 2005 11:14 AM EST
how many mages do you see with equal NW to the top tanks?
to make it a fair comparison, go ahead and only include non-USD players.
FB was the killer for mages. Take people out quickly.
The TSA is a great counter to these, with a leeser effect versus CoC. I don't see many FB mages in the top for long. The combination of TSA and MgS will kill them. ;)
November 27 2005 11:58 AM EST
Yes, but the combo of TSA/MgS is not that great vs other tanks as the upgrade curve of the TSA makes it hard to get it over +50 and the + of the MgS does not add to AC.
AC is not really used versus other tanks. Dex is more important. ;)
The TSA gives a bonus to str, which helps, granted the MgS does nothing versus tanks...
But MgS + TSA (in theory) is the Mage killer. Given you can still add (some) AC reduction, AMF and ToE Aura to this as wel, depending on set up.
FB in rnaged one does 70% damage. Lets add in some conservative values, 20 MgS, 30 TSA and 20% AMF reduction.
FB then becomes 31.4% damage before AC/Endurance/Protection.
Let's bump the numbers up a little to 30MgS and a 50% AMF reduction;
FB is then 17.2% damage before AC/Endurance/Protection.
Oh, this doesn take into account any splitting of damage over multiple minions.
Anyone fear FB now?
November 28 2005 6:59 AM EST
4 minions + ToJ has always been a Fireball killer. I haven't feared a FB mage since I've been using that strat.
November 28 2005 11:20 AM EST
My remark was directed at way-back discussion where I would whine about ToAs being the only way to properly leverage NW (USD-generated or not). Sefton countered with saying a mage could spend a lot of money on AGs, DBs, CoI, and a Corn to combat the NW leveraging on a ToA. That now seems less plausible to me, as it would cause the total PR of the mage to be very large. ToA tank armor is around 0.2 to 0.4, as well as there being a weapon allowance. Now mages definitely have no reason to spend cash (no way to properly leverage it without blowing out their PR).
November 28 2005 12:15 PM EST
with apologies to sefton, leveraging NW isn't really what mages are designed for.
November 28 2005 1:40 PM EST
Which ends up meaning:
Reality = USD = ToA in the top spots
I have mostly resigned myself to that fact, but apparently (see MegaMan's thread), many have not.
November 28 2005 1:42 PM EST
i'm not the kind of guy to lay down and accept things i see as wrong.
November 28 2005 1:44 PM EST
That's what I like about you, MM. *smile*
November 28 2005 3:43 PM EST
November 28 2005 3:55 PM EST
What hurt? I was being sincere... (I know it is hard to tell sometimes...)
November 30 2005 1:52 PM EST
something weird is going on with my PR..
my MPR for Tenchi is 30,906.
fully equip with all items, PR is 34,434
removing my COI, PR drops to 32,505
so, that means COI adds 34,434 - 32,505 = 1,929 PR
however, when I only equip him with a COI, his PR is 33,338
that means COI (here) adds 33,338 - 30,906 = 2,432 PR
that's a 26% difference between the 2 scenarios.
Is this how it is suppose to be?
November 30 2005 2:01 PM EST
It's a 14% difference for my character, must have something to do with the weighting of the armor?
November 30 2005 2:21 PM EST
In my experience as your mpr goes up, the amount of PR armor adds gets a bit less. For instance. On TAB my +100 DB's add about 40k to my PR, but on Elementals they add over 70k.
Is that without other items Ranger? I think that the more total NW on the character the less PR extra NW will add, so it might be down to that.
November 30 2005 2:37 PM EST
Never checked it without other items on TAB. When my DB's get back from a loan, ill see if it matters.
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