Equipment cool down period (in General)
December 2 2005 4:01 PM EST
I understand why the 8 hour period exists.
But I can't possibly explain to newbies why they can't change their equipment and try out different weapons.
December 2 2005 4:07 PM EST
there's a cool down period?
December 2 2005 4:24 PM EST
Unequip an item. Wait 5 minutes. Try to re-equip it again (on same minion)...
December 2 2005 4:31 PM EST
re equipped just fine
December 2 2005 4:32 PM EST
I have never had a problem with cool-down. Jon may want to chime in, but I do not think it was ever put into play.
December 2 2005 4:39 PM EST
oh, it was, i had it happen to me when i first signed up. i dunno if that is the case anymore, though...i don't play with weapons much, being a mage & all...
December 2 2005 4:39 PM EST
Well, here in New Players, newbies often find them unable to re-equip an item, so I do think the code is working, or at least it's working for them ;)
December 2 2005 6:01 PM EST
December 2 2005 6:20 PM EST
would an exemption for players' first week help?
December 2 2005 6:25 PM EST
Yes Jon, that would help.
December 2 2005 7:50 PM EST
first week or perhaps 2 weeks should help greatly...
What is equipment cool down?
Nevermind. I read that link. I never noticed that before, though.
Maybe a exemption for players until they have atleast a 1 or 2k char would be more useful then a set time period..
December 2 2005 9:39 PM EST
increase exemption period from 3 days to 10.
I unequipped an item (armor), waited 6 minutes, and equipped it again on the same minion. Should I not be able to do that?
December 4 2005 5:37 AM EST
After 19 minutes, I have been able to re-equip my HoD (to the same minion).
December 4 2005 5:49 AM EST
I've never had a problem with equipping and re-equipping items. The past few weeks I've been experimenting with various strats and changing items left right and centre. The only problem I've had is having too many items unequipped on my character. Then I get a warning about holding too much unequipped.
But never any evidence of a cool down period....?
December 4 2005 10:20 AM EST
I have heard new players having trouble of re equipping ammo, but haven't actually had trouble re equipping anything myself..
December 4 2005 1:01 PM EST
Just waited 1 hour, or perhaps little over it, and no cool down time at all...
on a HoD btw.
December 4 2005 1:05 PM EST
Maybe it has been working in the opposite way: the cooldown period only applies during the first 3 days.
December 4 2005 1:17 PM EST
first 3 days of what? equipping the item?
the cool down period had been implemented to prevent abuse of a player unequiping say a huge tattoo to be a less attractive target for fighting and to at random re equip it to fight or to suddenly let people lose against the character.
so after the first 3 days would be a useless implementation...
December 4 2005 2:33 PM EST
I meant that new players are supposed to have a 3 day (now 10 day) exemption from having to worry about the cool down period. However, it seems as though only new players are affected, so maybe it was coded in the reverse way by accident: maybe only new players have to deal with the cool down periods, and after 10 days it goes away.
December 4 2005 6:31 PM EST
Maelstrom is correct.
/awards Mael the "psychic debugger" award
//goes to drown his shame in vast quantities of Christmas gingerbread
December 4 2005 6:35 PM EST
Is this why getting this:
The requested URL cannot be accessed due to a system error on this server.
AOLserver/4.0.9b on http://www.carnageblender.com
now when I try to requip my armor?
December 4 2005 6:44 PM EST
I can't reproduce your problem, Tezmac.
But I did manage to get your RoE unequippable for the next 8 hours. So it appears to be working correctly. :)
December 4 2005 7:03 PM EST
Doh! Now everyone's going to blame me when they can't re-equip their stuff... :-o
But thanks for the award, Jon ;)
December 4 2005 7:05 PM EST
A Cornuthaum  (+8) (There is a cooldown period of 8 hours before you may re-equip items to the same Minion. This period expires in 07:49:59.)
Yes, now it seems to work for everyone.
December 4 2005 7:24 PM EST
what is the point in this exercise?
And you need to give us another way to find out the NW of the unforgeable items with out having to unequip-equip them, such as Tattoo's and Elven Gear in case you are trying to sell etc.
Jonathan, May 13th - NW linked to PR post in the Changelog
"To prevent abuse, a cooldown period of 8 hours was imposed: if you unequip something from a minion, you won't be able to equip it back to the same minion for 8 hours. (To be explicit: you CAN equip it to a DIFFERENT minion.)"
I agree it'd be nice to see the NW of unforgeable items without unequipping though.
December 4 2005 8:00 PM EST
What about rentals?
if you are renting something, and it expires, you go back and re-rent it, you have to wait, again what is the purpose of this exercise?
December 4 2005 8:13 PM EST
How can you abuse swapping out items on your own character? you either have it or you don't.
Say you are trying out a new weapon so see if you can absorb the PR from it, so you equip it, it's too big for you, so you unequip it and try to put the other one on, now you can't, but you can't put the new one back on either, cause both require a cooling period. So You are screwed for the next 8 hours cause you can't beat anyone. All that BA lost for a rule that doesn't have a point to it.
December 4 2005 8:13 PM EST
3,265 Broken Promises [11x5] (+4) (There is a cooldown period of 8 hours before you may re-equip items to the same Minion. This period expires in 05:44:42.)
ok now I'm a tad confused first i thought i was 5 mins before it kicked in and second time my timer is off by about 2 hours 14 minutes.
December 4 2005 8:16 PM EST
I was just getting ready to make a post about ammo. But you did the job for me.
December 4 2005 8:17 PM EST
Mikel, have you noticed what Glory does?
When he's not fighting, he puts on all his huge gear for defense so it's hard to attack him.
December 4 2005 8:20 PM EST
so, he has already paid for the right to use those items.
December 4 2005 8:22 PM EST
hehe amusing quote
Jonathan, May 14 2005 2:31 PM EDT
you're right, the MgS wasn't intended to be continuously useful. It is, IMO, quite useful for newer players where tanks are at a disadvantage vs mages, and that's how it was designed.
December 4 2005 8:25 PM EST
Leon, lots of people do that.
Just like people equip seekers to fight and regular arrows to defend.
December 4 2005 8:26 PM EST
I'm sorry but what was the reason for the cooldown period? I seem to have read it somewhere before but I forgotten what it was.
December 4 2005 8:50 PM EST
Thanks for the fix Jon. :O)
Basically this removes "defensive only" equipment from the game. You'll need at least 2 bundles of seekers to play with now and Glory will need 2 huge TOAs. :O)
But I do agree with a few of Mikel's points.
1. I went to go re-rent the weapon I was using, but realized that I wouldnt be able to re-equip it for another 8 hours
2. If I want to play around with equipment changes, I wouldnt be able to re-equip what I wanted to for another 8 hours.
3. There are plenty of occassions when I unequip gear so I can see its NW, usually for when I want to insta something, can't do that any more.
December 4 2005 8:52 PM EST
As per the initial post by Jon in this thread:
There is a 5 min window where you can equip and unequip your items.
December 4 2005 9:07 PM EST
" What about rentals?
if you are renting something, and it expires, you go back and re-rent it, you have to wait, again what is the purpose of this exercise?"
I rented an item which expired and i paid the fee in full. Why would i get 8 hours off of it. Should i , logically, over pay for rental fee?
It would be very funny to rent an item that duration is :6:00:00 and i have to wait 8 hours to use it...?
December 4 2005 9:08 PM EST
i blame maelstrom..hehe j/k..^_^
December 4 2005 9:09 PM EST
Jon please remove this thing. it seems very foolish
December 4 2005 9:12 PM EST
THATS IT! WHO CREATED THIS POST AND MADE US ALL HAVE A COOLDOWN PERIOD!!!! ....lol...sorry for the caps... im just a little angry
Re-equipping my bow, assuming my time-out is not yet up, I get don't get the too-bad-for-you message, I get:
The requested URL cannot be accessed due to a system error on this server.
AOLserver/4.0.9b on http://www.carnageblender.com
December 4 2005 9:14 PM EST
I love it! It's much better than Cats!
December 4 2005 9:19 PM EST
"WHO CREATED THIS POST AND MADE US ALL HAVE A COOLDOWN PERIOD!!!! "
just read the freaking thread...bartjan created(thats why his name and post is the first one) and Maelstrom is the psychic debugger that needs to be lynched for pointing out that it was working backwards.
yeah I have started getting the errors now instead of the too-bad-for-you.
December 4 2005 9:22 PM EST
now this is just silly..ive equipped slayers and when i tried to re-equip it i got this...
4,644 Arrows [8x1] (+1) (There is a cooldown period of 8 hours before you may re-equip items to the same Minion. This period expires in 05:01:10.)
here's the silly bit..i used all of them up..and still the cooldown msg..looks like i should buy myself more arrows..-_-
December 4 2005 9:23 PM EST
fixed error messages.
December 4 2005 9:32 PM EST
x Category (this is dependent on which side of the ratio you are on):
people need less armor, drives prices down, CB2:USD falls even lower.
Items already have been falling, so much that Jon has actually bid on some to keep the prices up.
December 4 2005 9:53 PM EST
I think ammo should be exempted. Although I don't use it hehe, and pretty much enjoy the silly tanks who equipped seekers and have to force themselves to finish them :P
December 4 2005 11:34 PM EST
The requested URL cannot be accessed due to a system error on this server
I get this if I try to equip a weapon that was previously on the character...
December 5 2005 12:04 AM EST
December 5 2005 10:58 AM EST
So if I unequip an item and re-equip it in 4 mins , does the timer reset so that I can then unequip again safely?
Seems to. I've been fighting in -5 minute increments, to no ill effect.
December 5 2005 11:01 AM EST
Ah - thanks.
And while I don't like this rule, I don't disagree with it. Its intended effect is to have people defend with the same setup as they fight. Glory and I do not (although Glory's stuff has a more skewed effect). So I'll likely go back to keeping most of my gear on, and just unequip some big NW wall armor to get a bit more rewards.
Wow...sucks to be a tank.
December 5 2005 1:49 PM EST
why does it suck? just keep your gear on.
I don't quite see the purpose of this. It's unrealistic that you need 8 hrs to re-equip your arrow or any other gears. Even the old weapons like trebuchet or canon didn't take that amount of time to reload.
Why can't we defend with different gears and attack with another? What's the harm in that? Isn't that part of the tactics?
It's like in the American football, you attack with a set of players and defend with another.
December 5 2005 3:01 PM EST
It isn't a reloading time, merely an anti cheat precaution.
Read the thread as noted -- it helpfully refers you to an old changelog that gives the reason for the change and (even) another link to a thread on the subject.
hands out cheese for all those with whine.
December 5 2005 3:14 PM EST
December 6 2005 11:31 AM EST
Ok, I am confused, has this always been turned on? I have never seen it before, and why the 8 hours? Isn't that a little excessive?
Why can't a character have two sets of equipment? An offensive set and a defensive set? Seems like you are hurting people who use multiple sets of equipment and forcing them to stay with the same equipment all the time. Holy Boring! :)
December 6 2005 11:32 AM EST
they turned it on just for you glory ;)
Glory it's worse than that, this was supposed to have been implemented a long time ago...was implemented only for people in the first few days...and now has been fixed specifically due to you.
December 6 2005 11:36 AM EST
It's a bit of a pain if you're trying out new strats but most people don't have the luxury of having offensive/defensive kit to worry about.
The only area that I can see being a problem is ammo. On average you can only buy speciality ammo in small bundles that don't last the eight hours if you are fighting hard. So what do you do with that bundle of normal ammo that you un-equipped when the speciality runs out? You probably still have 5 hours or so of cool down period....
There is a workaround for this one....clue.....MERGE........
December 6 2005 11:37 AM EST
Of course it would be easier if the cool down period for ammo was shortened; or better still not there.... ;)
I agree with scrapping the cooldown for ammo ... I mean it's one thing to swap on a 60+mil NW MH for defense, but some seeker / slayers ... small change .. and that isn't a shot at you Glory, that hammer is the reason I dont fight you lol
December 6 2005 11:50 AM EST
It would be nice if there were a longer period of time during which you could re-rent and re-equip an item that has returned to rentals. I mean, five minutes isn't much time to notice that an item has returned to rentals, to go into rentals and find it, and then to re-equip it.
Also, I'm not sure of this, but can't it take a few minutes for an item to re-appear in rentals after it has returned there?
December 6 2005 11:51 AM EST
So, this change was fixed because of my defensive equipping of items. Wow, I feel so honored that Jonathan would make a change just for me.
December 6 2005 11:54 AM EST
One thing that's bugging me is why I can't transfer items between minions and avoid the cooldown. If the cooldown code is to avoid major changes in NW & PR, transfers between minions don't change the team NW-PR calculation, and I think they should be exempt.
So if I switch the RoE (or anything else) between two chars, I don't think it should trigger the timer / timeout, since my PR hasn't changed at all. I'd like to be able to juggle who wears the RoE, TSA, MgS, without hitting the penalty - as long as someone's wearing it, my PR doesn't change.
Does that sound reasonable?
December 6 2005 11:57 AM EST
"So if I switch the RoE (or anything else) between two chars, I don't think it should trigger the timer / timeout, since my PR hasn't changed at all. "
Im in full agreement with you.
December 6 2005 12:19 PM EST
Seems like there should be a PR increase threshold that would trigger this cool down period. If you just change from a BoNE to a BoTh of equal NW, you should be able to change back and forth as much as you like. Only items that severely whack out your PR with huge NW should apply imo. Thoughts?
December 6 2005 12:36 PM EST
read the thread before patting yourself too hard on the back, Glory :)
December 6 2005 12:45 PM EST
Too late, I already have bruises...:P
December 6 2005 1:54 PM EST
Upon second read, I should clarify the stuff Tezmac quoted - "So if I switch the RoE (or anything else) between two chars" - I mean two minions on the same char.
Just in case it wasn't obvious.
I usually unequip my items and go to the auctions / sell page to get item stats including NW. Well now I can't re-equip my CML to my wall ... I think this needs to be changed somehow .. I sure am glad that this is on my farm character and not my main ...
Sorry I should have included this in my previous post, but I thought of it afterwards ..
My situation could have been prevented if there was an easier way to get the NW of all you items ... make a link for it, include it on an existing page... This is greatly helpful in the case of tattoos ...
December 6 2005 3:26 PM EST
You're welcome, Glory. =P
December 6 2005 5:22 PM EST
If you can't beat Glory in his weakened or boosted form, then you have other problems that you should be focusing on instead of him or anyone like him.
He paid for his Items, so who are you to tell him that he can't use those items as he wishes?
Anyways, lower demand for armor and weapons now... prices fall even more... more bang for your CB2, which translates to less demand for CB2....
73 new users in the past 24 hours thats thats three an hour wich isnt that bad. I've been on sites where there isn't 73 users total.
*hunts for that devils advocte hat again*
How many of those are totally new users or old users exploiting the NUB with new accounts? ;)
December 6 2005 9:23 PM EST
A.could we have ROE exemption from this? Since:
1. Doesn't add PR
2. Doesn't add anything to defensive.
3. Switching ROE between minions?
B. If I rent weapon for 6 hours, after that it gets returned, i 'd spend money to rent it again for 6 hours...Result: Can't use it?
December 6 2005 9:30 PM EST
Now, this is getting stupid. Is the cooldown period really necessary? If so, then modify it such that it does not affect rentals or basic gears.
We didn't have this cooldown period since the day it was intended back in May. What harm has it done since?
December 7 2005 2:06 AM EST
If you didn't know, apparent only the nub were affected initially by the cool down period. Now, all of us will be affected by it.
December 7 2005 5:06 AM EST
you: a RoE exception should not be made, exactly for the reasons you gave. The fact that it does not add PR, and does not add defense means that it is likely used as an item you fight with, and swapped with a more defensive tattoo (for example that high end tattoo you can't use yet on your NCB char) while you are afk.
With a RoE exception, you could unequip the RoE when you are afk for a few hours, and then equip it again. This is not fair, you should have both the advantages and disadvantages of that high NW.
December 7 2005 5:47 AM EST
From what I understand, YOU unequipped it to get a naming done to the RoE. When she got it back, she couldn't equipped it back on. So you get penalised for this?
December 7 2005 5:53 AM EST
Does my time out start counting from when I send to the blacksmith, from 5 minutes after I send to the blacksmith, or from when I get my item back from the blacksmith? Or has this been fixed?
My stuff has been in the 20-minute queue for 2 hrs. so far, thus I'd really like to know if that time is coming out of my 8-hour penalty?
December 7 2005 5:56 PM EST
Bartjain: I just want to be able to split exp evenly "between minions".
December 7 2005 6:07 PM EST
Then rotate the RoE at a lower frequency than 34.7 microhertz ;)
December 7 2005 9:39 PM EST
I don't know what's funnier - bartjan converting the cool down to microhertz or me opening my calculator to confirm that it was the correct conversion!
December 7 2005 10:47 PM EST
So, let me get this straight. If I Blacksmith an item for longer than 4 mins I have to wait 8 hours to equip it again on the same minion?
December 7 2005 10:53 PM EST
It will come back to the minion it was equipped on when you BS'd it. However if you take it off before 8 hours are up, you cannot put it back on that minion again until the 8 hours are up.
December 7 2005 11:49 PM EST
as of cache flush this morning, blacksmithing and rental expiration don't count as unequipping
December 8 2005 12:46 AM EST
Was there a possible problem with Named Ammo? or has that been tested thoroughly?
Anyways, thx for giving a little bit of ground, it can now function like you want it to.
December 8 2005 10:54 AM EST
So now can we also allow swaps between minions without triggering the timeout? I tested it by moving my RoE to my enchanter and the MCM to my main tank, and moving them back. Now I can't put the RoE on the enchanter for another 7 1/2 hours. But none of that affected my PR since it was inter-minion swaps without unequipping.
December 8 2005 11:31 AM EST
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I want to special-case "swaps between minions."
December 8 2005 11:33 AM EST
Why not, Jon?
December 8 2005 11:49 AM EST
I read the original intent of the change was to make the total team's PR due to NW static, as opposed to wearing big defensive gear & dropping it when fighting to get better rewards. (Which, by the way, is exactly what I was doing.) So allowing intra-minion swaps would still stay within the same PR structure. Now if you were designing this change to force each minion to have a static NW & PR structure within the team's total PR, then I understand intra-minion swaps would defeat that purpose.
So were you designing this to keep the specific minion's gear static, or to keep the team's equipped NW static?
I just fell foul of this after unequipping my weapon to check the NW and not putting it back on in time. Perhaps we could have a way to view NW without unequipping.
This also prevents 'testing' of items between accounts
Person A can't really 'borrow' one item from person B to see how their strat works with it. if i recall correctly, this was occasionally done (but only to people you Really Really trusted)
good...bad... you decide
If the purpose of this change is to prevent people from changing gear sets while offline, it should be noted that this prevention will not occur. Basically, just switch gear sets when you're going to be gone for more than 8 hours. Problem solved.
Now this becomes one of those giant inconviences for people wanting to play by the rules. What is the point of a restriction like this that only affects people who are swapping gear on and off quickly? If you're doing a quick swap, you aren't putting on a defense set before you go to sleep. A quick swap is a NW check, strat check, PR check, etc etc. A total gear swap for defense while AFK.... 8 hours.... it sounds like this is hindering the wrong people, and hindering the right people not at all.
I thought I will suggest this. I don't know how to explain it but I'm giving it a try and hope you all understand.
Say, I want to equip my morg to test the weapon. Can we have a 5 minutes test fighting with the morg without the morg being mark as used for the cooldown period. In other words, the cooldown period doesn't apply if you use the weapon only for a period of 5 minutes.
December 13 2005 3:25 AM EST
Why 5 minutes?
Wouldn't anything short of the time it takes for 160 BA to accumulate do the trick?
It seems that anything above 30 minutes starts to be quite a bit, but 5 minutes is pushing the convenience a bit.
If the time is arbitrary, couldn't we have 10 minutes instead?
5 minutes is just an example. Can be whatever time as long as it's enough to allow us to test the weapon for a few fights.
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