Teach me about Dexterity (in General)

AdminShade December 16 2005 8:17 AM EST

Yes you read it right. Teach me things about DX (Dexterity) in CB. I want to make an entry in the Wiki and could really use the info.

I need info about:

When you get chances at double hits
What the chance to hit is when fighting an equal DX opponent (with both same weapons with same +)
If there is a chance at triple hits with DX (don't think there is but just to be sure ^_^ )

And perhaps some more things that have to do with DX

I know of some people, among them Ranger, who know a lot about DX, or should know, and will let them know to reply in this thread in Chat Mails, everyone else may also reply but no bogus stories please, i will remove them.

QBRanger December 16 2005 8:30 AM EST

This was the thread with a great analysis on Dexterity:

As far as I know, there is no chance for triple hits due to dex. With dex you get either 0, 1 or 2 hits.

The dex part of the equation to hit is independant of the PTH part.

After dex, then comes the PTH part. The PTH can give unlimited hits as long as you have the PTH.

But remember that Jon changed the ability to hit with 1H and 2H weapons in this thread as well.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 16 2005 8:47 AM EST

As far as I can remember (I also think there was a recent thread where some of my thoughts were corrected, I'll look for it later. :) ) Dex used to provide a base 50% chance to hit, for both attacker and defender *at equal dex*. This is as Ranger said, seperate to the attack gained due to weapon/ToA pth.

We should probably lable attacks as Chance to Hit (from Dex) and Plus to Hit (from Weapons/ToA). :)

Dex allowed a possible two hits in total, depending on your Dex compared to your targets, I originally thought this was linear due to a comment mades by Jon that an attacker with a 10% larger Dex than their oppoent should see a 10% increase in chance to hit, but this was later corrected. :)

When you get a large enough dex to land a second hit, you no have the chance to miss with your original, which leads me to assume it's worked out in the same fashion as pth attacks. When you get 101+ cth, you get 100% to land the first dex hit with a 1% chance to land a second.

It has been suggested the chance to land the second dex based hit is capped at 65%.

*This was recently changed, with the base 50% cth being modified for what type of weapon you use. " Handed weapons are lower, 1 handed higher, with a 50% gap between the two.* - Originally, I thought this was modified to 25% and 75% (as it would have been nice and easy) but that's been confirmed by Jon as inccorect as well. :)

Another change is now Evasion (from skill or item, which it should be noted doesn't stack) not used to reduce pth now reduces dex based cth on a point per percent basis. +10 Evasion over your targets weapon pth reduces your targets cth by 10%. It should be noted this isn't a modyfier to your oppoents dex and therefore doesn't help you hit any better, just lowers the chance of an opponent hitting you. :)

I can't think of anything else, so will go look for some old threads. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 16 2005 9:01 AM EST

Some of the posts I cold find;

(With reference to a 10% dex gap)

Jonathan, May 11 2005 12:28 PM EDT
remember, at equal dx you only have roughly a 50% chance to hit, depending on your weapon

going from 50% to 40% seems reasonable here.

(From thread "Quick Dex based attack observations")

Untrained dex, tested for every dex value up to I was sure of receiving double hits. Same conditions as original test.

Dex: 21 (5% Greater)
Rounds: 40
Misses: 14 35%
Doubles: 0 0

Dex: 22 (10% Greater)
Rounds: 32
Misses: 4 12.5%
Doubles: 0 0

Dex: 23 (15% Greater)
Rounds: 32
Misses: 4 12.5%
Doubles: 0 0

Dex: 24 (20% Greater)
Rounds: 33
Misses: 4 12.1%
Doubles: 0 0

Dex: 25 (25% Greater)
Rounds: 28
Misses: 1 3.6%
Doubles: 0 0

Dex: 26 (30% Greater)
Rounds: 25
Misses: 0 0
Doubles: 1 4%

Dex: 27 (35% Greater)
Rounds: 27
Misses: 0 0
Doubles: 3 11.1%

All I can draw from this is, when your dex makes you eligable for double hits (around 30% greater than your opponent) you will not miss.

I'll test later on for Dex values above 50 to see ifI can hit a cap on the double hit %.


GentlemanLoser, May 27 2005 9:17 AM EDT

100 Dex on Tester (400% greater than opponents)

Melee rounds: 22
Doubles: 13
Doubles %: 59.1

I'll test for higher when I can, but it does look like the percentage of double hits is capped around 60%

Now if someone would like to work through 50 -100 dex to find out where the cap lies....


(About the 65% cap on the second dex hit)

QBSutekhTDestroyer, May 27 2005 1:20 AM EDT
With a substantial dex gap (100K), the chance for a double hit was right around 65%. With the huge ToAs around not, someone could hit a soft target to see if that 65% is a cap or what. My dexterity has not grown enough to test.

Mags, May 27 2005 1:41 AM EDT
Well, the ToA gives to-hit as well now, and an unspecified amount. You'd be better off testing without one.


GentlemanLoser, May 27 2005 3:28 AM EDT
Chet, that would make the dex cth cap at 165% right? 100% chance for hitting on the first hit, with a capped 65% chance of a second hit (Much like a +165 weapon?).

(From Sept 1 changes changelog post)

Jonathan, September 1 2005 10:51 AM EDT
+ 1H melee weapons now have a 50% higher base chance-to-hit than 2H weapons
+ (1H base to-hit went up; 2H base to-hit went down)
+ this affects how easy it is to get double hits from DX as well

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] December 16 2005 10:44 AM EST

Wow! GL, you're the man! Although, now I need a huge pair of DBs for my silly mini-tank... cursed TOA.

DAWG December 16 2005 2:10 PM EST

yes the pth on your weapons adds a huge advantage...

example I can have a 800k dx advantage over a minion but if I don't have my db's on they can still get double and single hits on me.... which you would think with that much of a DX difference they shouldn't be able to get any hits even if the weapon is huge in the pth area... I think DX is a little out of balance in that aspect.

DAWG December 16 2005 2:13 PM EST

and also huge db's can cause a 1mill dx difference character to still only get 1 hit.... even with decent pth on the weapon...

QBOddBird December 16 2005 4:11 PM EST

I asked this question some time ago, and what I was told was this: (my question was more to the effect of what does PTH/DEX affect as far as chances to hit go) : That DX could give a chance of up to 2 hits, and with PTH hit added, up to 4 (5 for the + on ranged ammo). That's all I can remember, though, that hasn't already been covered.

Doc [girl power] December 16 2005 4:59 PM EST

What I have found.

When using a weapon on an enchanter...train the DX to 60. This allows you to hit the opponents enchanter for 2 hits...provided they have 0 DX.
ST need only be trained for Max performance.

This strat is utterly useless when fighting someone with Trained DX higher than you.

But I am not expecting much damage from an enchanter.


Peter at home December 16 2005 6:30 PM EST

Guys, I will have to remind you all about a little flaw in the post from March (about the possible 65% cap provided by huge advantage of DX). There is a to-hit penalty in first and second round of ranged. So any conclusions you made about DX from ranged data concerning number of hits is faulty.

Just adding my 2 cents.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 16 2005 7:00 PM EST

There's a to hit penalty for ranged attacks? Where did that come from?

All my data was got using a melee weapon and taken from melee rounds. :)

OB, as for pth, it can give an unlimited (well limited only by updgade costs) amount of extra attacks. Each plus is one percent of an attack. A +300 weapon would grant an extra three attacks every round. :)

Dawg, those double + hits you'er seeing without your DBs are most likely from any weapon pth, not the dex difference.

Peter at home December 16 2005 9:14 PM EST

As far as I remember there was always a penalty in first 2 round of ranged, (or at least from the time I started playing CB1 ) and I don't remember a changelog post saying otherwise.

About the ranged weapon, I was referring to the tests made in the post from March where there is a link from here and there was made an assumption that there is a 65% cap on double hits from DX.
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