Evasion data - Need more data! (in General)


AdminShade January 30 2006 2:24 PM EST

does anyone have information / data about evasion?

if there was a post previously, perhaps search it?

tnx in advance, the info collected will be put in the new www.cbstuff.nl (not online yet)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 30 2006 2:26 PM EST

and while you are collecting said data, find out for me if the defensive dex attracts AXbows...oh and find out if the evasion granted by UC also gives defensive dex!...

AdminShade January 30 2006 2:27 PM EST

the evasion from UC gives defensive DX afaik, don't know about the axbow targeting but it should work, will test that coming week end if i don't forget.

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] January 30 2006 2:47 PM EST

is evasion good for a single mage and what does it do it for the mage

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 30 2006 2:49 PM EST

each point of evasion is like the + on a set of DB's, reducing the pth of the opponents weapons and if it is higher than their pth it reduces their dex-based chance-to-hit by 1% for each level of difference, so an evasion 20 levels above an opponents pth will result in a 20% reduction in dex-based chance-to-hit.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 30 2006 3:01 PM EST

it also grants 1/3 (IIRC) of it's level as defensive only dex.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 3:37 PM EST

100,000 (40)
101,000 (41)

Grant January 30 2006 6:18 PM EST

From the changelog:
"Evasion gives bonus to effective DX on defense equal to the evasion level"

Evasion (8) would then give +8% Dex and -8 to their PTH,
Evasion (40) would give + 40% Dex, etc.
Evasion (41) would give + 41% Dex, etc.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 30 2006 6:19 PM EST

wow, that's funky...could make training evasion very useful...

Sacredpeanut January 30 2006 6:35 PM EST

From Jonathan - "the evasion bonus is additive, not multiplicative"

So Evasion 100,000 (40) reduces opponents PTH by 40 and increases defensive DX by 100,000

AdminShade January 30 2006 6:46 PM EST

and some experience values would help also ;)

Dignifried Bean [|Cheese It|] January 30 2006 6:47 PM EST

I was tracking evasion for a while. these are the lowest and highest readings I have at a given level (Exact transition points are somewhere in between. I hope this helps

0 53
1 103-206
2 267-489
3 596
4 1064
6 1776-2092
7 2517-2794
8 3046-3609
9 3643-4482
10 4520-5536
11 5537-6554
13 8596-9221
14 9368-10754
15 10800-12351
16 12415-14125
17 14175-16036
18 16184-17717
19 18307-20140
20 20755-22277
21 23378-24873
22 25344-27507
23 27745

Anubis January 30 2006 7:31 PM EST

I found this somewhere and its definitely correct at level 3 and 4, I haven't been higher.

Effect Level
87 1
219 2
434 3
721 4
1121 5
1582 6
2163 7
2872 8
3640 9
4520 10
5543 11.0
6698 12.0
8009 13.0
26125 22
31212 24
101381 41
138603 47
145335 48
159539 50

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 7:43 PM EST

Grant, 6:18 PM EST
From the changelog:
"Evasion gives bonus to effective DX on defense equal to the evasion level"

Evasion (8) would then give +8% Dex and -8 to their PTH,
Evasion (40) would give + 40% Dex, etc.
Evasion (41) would give + 41% Dex, etc.

Grant, you're using the effect. The level is number before the parenthesis. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 8:00 PM EST

I think the names were coined as level and effect from the Spell and SKill Descriptions page;

"BL has reduced effect when its level is low relative to ST."

And the pre round log;

"enchantment effects that cannot be determined before combat are displayed as '?'"

:)

[T]Vestax January 30 2006 8:05 PM EST

Your reading it wrong GL. That would only be correct if the quote said that the evasion gives bonus to effective DX on defense equal to the evasion _effect_ (and not level)"

Therefore, 4520 levels of Evasion takes a 10% chance away from the opponent's chance to hit and also gives you 4520 DX when defending. There is no longer a reason to train DX if you want to make an unhittable wall minion.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 8:11 PM EST

Vestax, my Evasion has a level of 100,000 and an effect of (40). It reduces pth by 40 and gives an extra 100,000 Dexterity on defense.

And I agree, it's why I now have no dex on my wall (bar the tiny amount to make him double hit mages/enchanters if I ever equip him with a weapon and why I've moved my DBs to my mage)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 8:12 PM EST

Opps! Missed quote marks around Grants post... Vestax, the post I think you're taking about was a C&P of a post by Grant. ;)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 30 2006 8:13 PM EST

Gl have you noticed Axbows targeting your wall?

[T]Vestax January 30 2006 8:13 PM EST

Then I am utterly confused by the contradictions.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 30 2006 8:15 PM EST

Unfortunately, I've more natural dex on my wall than my mage, so they would go for him first anyway. :( Can't help with that one Novice.

Sacredpeanut January 30 2006 11:04 PM EST

Using the lowest numbers for each evasion level and the data given (along with a couple of other points) these are the points we have so far.

Lvl - Effect
87- 1
219- 2
434- 3
721- 4
1121- 5
1582- 6
2163- 7
2872- 8
3640- 9
4520- 10
5537- 11
6698- 12
8009- 13
9368- 14
10800- 15
12415- 16
14175- 17
16184- 18
18307- 19
20755- 20
23378- 21
25344- 22
27745- 23
31212- 24
101000- 41
138603- 47
145335- 48
159539- 50
166831- 51
174032- 52

Fitting a curve to the numbers I get a formula of:
Evasion Effect = 0.2234 * Evasion Level^0.452

In other words doubling your Evasion Level will increase your Evasion effect by 45.2%. This is probably similar to the upgrade curve for DB's (i.e. doubling the NW of a pair of DB's increases the + on them by about 45%). When I have a bit more time I'll have a look.

Sacredpeanut January 30 2006 11:22 PM EST

Sorry that should read doubling your Evasion will increase its effect by 36.8%

AdminShade January 31 2006 10:28 AM EST

Bump, I will also need untraining experience information !!! :)

Grant January 31 2006 10:35 AM EST

I'm wrong. Just wanted to say it officially :)

YOU January 31 2006 11:03 AM EST

Evasion: 2,960 (8) (untrain: 19,611)
Evasion: 247,024/181,636 (60) Untrain: 1,905,577

Quark January 31 2006 11:20 AM EST

108k - 43
118k - 44

More as I finish wacky exp time.

Quark January 31 2006 11:42 AM EST

Untrain 107.7k is 1.078 mil exp

124.8k gives (45)

Untrain 113.5k is 1.140 mil exp

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 31 2006 12:06 PM EST

100,000 (40) Unlearn for 994,542.

YOU January 31 2006 12:13 PM EST

Evasion: 3,977 (9) (Un-Train: 27,812)
Evasion: 4,797 (10) (Un-Train:34,454)
Evasion: 5,745 (11) (Un-Train:42,133)
Evasion: 6,788 (12) (Un-Train:50,581)
Evasion: 8,045 (13) (Un-Train:60,673)

YOU February 2 2006 8:32 AM EST

Evasion: 9,480 (14) 73,608exp
Evasion: 11,180 (15) 88,908exp

Quark February 2 2006 10:01 AM EST

131,688 gives (46) , untrain for 1.207 mil EXP.

QBRanger February 2 2006 10:04 AM EST

Does the evasion minus on the Pth add to DBs linearly or via the total xp method.

AdminShade February 2 2006 10:06 AM EST

I think through the total exp method...

QBRanger February 2 2006 10:09 AM EST

So if you have a large set of DB's, lets say over +70, then it would not be advantageous to train eveaion?

IE, if you have the DB's on a tank, you will likely want Bloodlust as you skill (archery or UC for those stubborn). If you have the DB's on a mage/enchanter the spent xp in evasion will not help you with the 20 dex such a minion likely has. And the xp is better spent raising your hp or DD spell level.

YOU February 2 2006 10:16 AM EST

point taken. I was stupid. All Evasion untrained. Thanks Ranger.

AdminShade February 2 2006 10:19 AM EST

but doesn't the evasion from DB's NOT count towards defensive DX?

Quark February 2 2006 10:35 AM EST

As already quoted above:

From Jonathan - "the evasion bonus is additive, not multiplicative"

So Evasion 100,000 (40) reduces opponents PTH by 40 and increases defensive DX by 100,000

--Sacredpeanut, January 30 2006 6:35 PM EST

So it's not exp method. I'm having a hard time telling for sure, but it seems like my +52 DB and +45 evasion do take away close to +100 PTH.

And it would only be fair that they stack additively, since the PTH on the ToA and the weapon PTH add up.

AdminShade February 2 2006 11:13 AM EST

So somebody indeed was stupid perhaps to untrain it so fast? :)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] February 2 2006 11:25 AM EST

Quark, that only describes the effect of Evasion, not how it acts with DB's. We found long ago that when using evasion with DB's that for the PTH part of the DB's it acted as if you had added that much to an evasion the level of your DB's.
So if you have a +50 pair of DB's and 100,00 exp into your Evasion then you will have total of what you would gain putting an extra 100k exp into an evasion already at 50.

- Evasion skill and related items now stack differently; instead of evasion 30 + DB 30 = 60, it now stacks the way enchantments do: in this example, the total would be 39.
This is from the May 2005 changelog.

Quark February 2 2006 12:49 PM EST

Hmm ... that sux.

I thought it was providing a better result than that. Can we change it back to give us some non NW way to deal with the ToA PTH?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 2 2006 1:38 PM EST

LOL!

I've been asking for skill/item stacking of evasion to be reverted for ages! ;) As we've now go defensive dex, and Evasion reducing cth after pth, I don't think the way it stacks wil change.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] February 7 2006 3:00 PM EST

Evasion: 235,054/239,852 (59)
Evasion: 259,040/239,852 (62)
Evasion: 268,634/239,852 (63)
Evasion: 292,619/239,852 (65)
Evasion: 302,213/239,852 (66)
Evasion: 326,114/239,790 (68)

AdminShade February 7 2006 3:01 PM EST

thanks for all the data so far, haven't had the time yet to make a graph out of it yet, will do it later this week though for sure :)

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] February 8 2006 10:17 AM EST

Evasion: 331,219/243,544 (69)

AdminShade February 8 2006 1:50 PM EST

Need more data from the region around 25 - 40

MUCH more data since it is empty there.

made a basic excel file, will upload it shortly and link it.

AdminShade February 8 2006 2:23 PM EST

Click here for the excel file or look them up on my site.

Below the 2 graphs:

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] February 8 2006 3:50 PM EST

Here's some data for you.

Evasion: 39,908/43,379 (27)
Evasion: 43,130/44,011 (28)
Evasion: 47,531/44,011 (29)
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