Happening today? (in Off-topic)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 18 2006 11:54 AM EST

The Apocalypse Book (1316178)
Cosmos (1310229)

Could it happen today during big XP?
Stay tuned to find out!

YOU February 18 2006 11:55 AM EST

it will be today wow.

QBRanger February 18 2006 11:56 AM EST

Perhaps not today, certainly by tomorrow.

Looks like Jon got his wish.

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 11:56 AM EST

today cosmos
me tomorrow :P

th00p February 18 2006 12:08 PM EST

Poor Ranger. All that work and now Cosmos is going to pass you. Good thing you can still beat him, right?

QBOddBird February 18 2006 12:09 PM EST

Yay! All that fighting finally paid off, Cosmos!

TrueDevil [AAA] February 18 2006 12:39 PM EST

Looks like there will be more NUB nerfing or not ? I think it's actually safe to say, Ranger's mpr was already passed few days ago, considering Cosmos is 2 minions, and TAB is 4 minions. :)

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] February 18 2006 12:43 PM EST

ITs about time.

Adminedyit [Superheros] February 18 2006 12:46 PM EST

About time nothing. Think where Ranger could be if he had gotten a NUB.

chappy [Soup Ream] February 18 2006 12:48 PM EST

/me tosses Ranger a tissue


QBBast [Hidden Agenda] February 18 2006 12:49 PM EST

You mean if he had the advantage of time and .... uh .... time?

QBOddBird February 18 2006 12:49 PM EST

no, remember? Cosmos is fighting more than Ranger is, period. That's why he's passing him, not because the NCB is overinflated.

QBRanger February 18 2006 12:53 PM EST

Perhaps he fought more then me due to:

The ability to buy more BA. Remember in the beginning we could only buy 353 BA at 7/10 refresh rate. In March it changed to 503.

But... My BA regen rate was 7/10 almost from the first day while Mantra has 10/10, 9/10 and 8/10 for about the first month along with the increased BA you can buy. Therefore he has fought a lot more battle then I did in the 4 months he has been playing.

Combine that with the ability to buy BA almost from the first day with the NUB as opposed to me not being able to buy till about Jan 20th or so and the BA used per day is more disparate.

Maelstrom February 18 2006 12:57 PM EST

The stars must be aligned against you, Ranger. But don't worry, once Mantra's NUB runs out, you'll get back to first place ;)

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] February 18 2006 12:58 PM EST

Enough of the excuses.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] February 18 2006 12:59 PM EST

Ranger will not get back to first place cosmos is fighting more then ranger how will ranger get back to first.

QBRanger February 18 2006 1:03 PM EST

No excuses.

I am just pointing out the facts why Mantra fought more than I did in the last 4 months.

It is quite the accomplishment to play as hard as I did in 13 months compressed into just 4. Seems like my Time advantage as some people put it, is not counted for much in this game. What has my time advantage given me? 50k more battles initiated then the next highest person but 2nd place MPR. So much for the advantage due to time.

chappy [Soup Ream] February 18 2006 1:10 PM EST

/me gets Ranger some to go with his

Sorry I just couldn't resist...

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 1:29 PM EST

{cb1}novice, January 27 2006 5:51 PM EST
"This may be old news, but Ranger's Apocolypse Book just hit 500k battles!"

21 days later Ranger has 29,804 more battles as challenger.
That's just over 1419 battles per day.

Mantra has 167,133 battles as challenger over 116.
That's about 1440 battles per day.

Taking a more recent sample of Ranger's battles per day (aka, post-March 2005) shows that Mantra exceeds Ranger's daily output of BA.

In all cases in which rounding was involved all numbers were rounded favor of Ranger having a higher battles/day and Mantra having a lower one. For example the post used above states that Ranger already had _over_ 500k in battles, but whatever extra battles he might of had I was not counted against him. This half day was also not counted in Ranger's figures while, in order to be safe, was included in Mantra's total.

That aside, there are other considerations. First, as Ranger said, there is BA that he simply does not have and will never have. Yet, as time goes on the value of this BA is diminished and can not be used to hold new players back indefinitely. Second, all calculation for the NUB, if my understanding is correct, does not figure in the beta-testing days of CB2. Third, I would bet a weeks worth of BA that Ranger has lots of unused BA. Forth, Mantras NUB only has 5 days left. I could keep going but all the major factors are listed.

Weigh each one of these points in any way you want. The fact that some people will underestimate and overestimate these factors to their pleasing will show that even if you list all the facts with numbers attached, the discussion will not end.

Makes me wonder why I did all this work in the first place.

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 1:35 PM EST

When I say that he has lots of unused BA, I mean xp.

Maelstrom February 18 2006 1:36 PM EST

As far as I know, every NUB player who made it near the top sold their character once their NUB expired, and scaled back how much they played. I expect the same from Mantra, and thus Ranger should have a chance to regain his throne.

QBOddBird February 18 2006 1:45 PM EST

Agreed. Ranger's right, he's put in a lot of time burning BA, but that was to hold the title, not to take it. If Cosmos can't keep putting out like he is, Ranger'll be back on top. No imbalance, just perhaps a temporary shift of position.

If he keeps fighting harder than you, then he keeps it. Simple as that.

{CB1}Lukeyman February 18 2006 1:48 PM EST

I don't really know if this is true or not..

But since Ranger is top, this means he wasn't able to fight people high about his stats, thus, making not as much rewards as say cosmos could have, since he was able to fight a lot higher.

just my 3 cents

QBBarzooMonkey February 18 2006 1:50 PM EST

That's the real test that no one has stepped up to yet - take the top from Ranger with the NUB and then maintain it after the NUB is gone. If Mantra stills owns Cosmos, and is still on top in April or May, then maybe all the hoopla is warranted.

But the peanut gallery will be all rabid to tear him down by then, too, won't they? :)

QBRanger February 18 2006 1:52 PM EST


One more thing to consider:

Mantra lost 5k of his battles during that time. I lost almost none, but lets say I lost about 200 during that time. So lets take the 5k battles Mantra lost and convert them to wins. Just imagine his MPR then. He would have overtaken my MPR last week well before his NUB was over.

From the time I hit 500k battles, Mantra fought 20 battles more than me per day. Not a lot overall.

As I have always stated, the NUB is still too powerful.

Now if Mantra buys a minion, even if he slows down a bit in playing, there is no way I can overtake his MPR. A new minion will give him over 100k more MPR. Now, imagine he buys 2 minions and sells out to a USD spender like Freed or Jayuu or DAWG. GAME OVER dude, GAME OVER. At least till the next NUB comes along in 4 or more months. But all the other characters who played from the beginning are crap.

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 2:08 PM EST

Depends on your point-of-view. It may be game over for you but it would be game on for freed, jayuu, and all the other little NUBlets. It's not like the events put forth are not repeatable with greater effectiveness over time.

Mantra February 18 2006 2:29 PM EST

1st off thank you all for the congratulations, 2nd you'll be pleased to hear I won't be putting my char up for sale, atleast not anytime soon that is. I don't think I'll pass ranger until in the morning, but it has been a fun ride and a very tough one, Waking up in the middle of the night many times to play my turns. Persistance and Dedication are the reasons I like to think are responsible for my success but I must say the NUB certainly didn't hurt.

I look forward to continue playing here well after my Nub ends and see how long it takes for someone to catch me, which will certainly happen at some point in the future.

QBRanger February 18 2006 2:29 PM EST

Of course who cares if we do not care about the older players who stood by cb2 as it was growing. It is the new players we have to make happy.

Perhaps since an older player is now number 2 MPR, a old player bonus is in order.

Maelstrom February 18 2006 2:32 PM EST

Wow, Mantra speaks! Welcome to the forums! ;)

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 2:50 PM EST

I second that Maelstrom. "It speaks!"

Undertow February 18 2006 4:37 PM EST

Ranger, your whining just makes me sick.

Are you rolling around on the floor and crying while you type too?

It's been a year, get over it.

QBRanger February 18 2006 4:39 PM EST


I hope your sick with malaria. Very painful to have.

QBPixel Sage February 18 2006 5:11 PM EST

I think Jon purposely created the NUB to make it possible to reach the top, which is obviously something Ranger doesn't like, and that's understandable.

Maybe the NUB needs to be modded so that once a NUB's MPR reaches the top level, that player loses his NUB?

Ox [StephenMelinda Gates Fund] February 18 2006 5:19 PM EST

Correction: Jon created it so new players could make it to 95% of the top MPR, assuming the top MPR continued the same growth without changing any strat to lose MPR, etc.

QBOddBird February 18 2006 5:25 PM EST

That is correct Oxtetor, but that was assuming they fought as much as Ranger did.

Mantra fought MORE. That's the difference.

"Of course who cares if we do not care about the older players who stood by cb2 as it was growing. It is the new players we have to make happy."

And of course, because you are not going to be #1 forever, we must not care.

"Perhaps since an older player is now number 2 MPR, a old player bonus is in order."

--QBRanger, 2:29 PM EST

Sweet! We'll call it: the NCB!

{CB1}Lukeyman February 18 2006 5:26 PM EST

Did anyone ever think... Now, Jon, Don't take this personally... But Maybe Jon like the money, and doesn't care about how the vets feel...? Because with NUB, more newbs will stay and fight, which, in turn, means they will buy supportership....

Just my 2 cents, and I don't mean to offend anyone

Ox [StephenMelinda Gates Fund] February 18 2006 5:31 PM EST

I doubt it Lukey, I don't think this game produces enough revenue to bring greed nor do I think Jon would think that way.

Also, like Ranger said, Mantra inevitably has the chance to fight more with the different BA regenerations. I don't know if Jon calculated that into the NUB percentage or not though..

QBRanger February 18 2006 5:37 PM EST

My god some people do not understand:

From a post about by Vestax:

21 days later Ranger has 29,804 more battles as challenger.
That's just over 1419 battles per day.

Mantra has 167,133 battles as challenger over 116.
That's about 1440 battles per day.

So while I had 7/10 BA regeneration rate I fought 1419 battles a day.

While Mantra, including the time he had 10/10, 9/10, 8/10 for the first month or so (up to 45% of my MPR), he fought only 20 more battles a day.

So basically anyone starting will have a 10, then 9, then 8 BA regen rate for a while. Have they fought more?

[T]Vestax February 18 2006 6:45 PM EST

Ranger, I wasn't making a point, at least not the one your thinking. I was just laying out a lot of information only to prove that it has no effect. Each individual variable that you lay down makes a definitive conclusion even less likely. With each additional consideration you allow more considerations, some in the form of considerations of the considerations. Then each consideration has to be weighed to see how much of an effect each one of these have.

Now I could sit here all day and think of opposing considerations if I wanted too, but then I wouldn't have had the time to make a fantastic stew (mmmm... stew...). Besides, I was trying to be neutral on the events. Don't be so defensive.

Undertow February 18 2006 7:53 PM EST

When your ba rate goes down, your rewards are adjusted.

So factor out the ba rate, it doesn't mean anything.

QBRanger February 18 2006 7:56 PM EST


People are saying he fought more than I did. We are talking about number of battles.

Undertow February 18 2006 7:59 PM EST

Jon wants the top spot to change hands, he built a system to allow that happen. He's tweaked it how he wants it. This is what he wants. You don't like it? Don't let the door hit yah where the good lord split yah.

Undertow February 18 2006 8:03 PM EST

i see what your saying Ranger. He had the ability to gain more BA than you per day in a number of different ways. Both by gaining more each 10 minute interval than you did. And by having the ability to buy more than you did.

So? Your done. Nice game. next?

TrueDevil [AAA] February 18 2006 10:34 PM EST

One thing that was not mentioned in the discussion, from what I remember, Mantra used RoE earlier, up until 600-700 k MPR and then changed to FF. Ranger never used RoE. The RoE can really boost up MPR.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 19 2006 7:24 AM EST

"When your ba rate goes down, your rewards are adjusted."

Where did you get this from? That's not something I've ever heard.

Doom Lit Sky February 19 2006 8:23 AM EST

The Apocalypse Book (1,322,148)

Cosmos (1,320,083)


Doom Lit Sky February 19 2006 8:34 AM EST

I don't know why everyone seems to be against Ranger on this. My guess is everyone wants to see "The One" taken down, so make sure you take it as a compliment and don't get too bent out of shape about it Ranger.

I think Jon's logic is messed up with this Nub... He wants the top to switch hands every.... 4-5 months?

That's stupid. If that is what he wanted, he would just give everyone not in the top 10-20 a scaling boost. The smaller you are the faster you grow, the closer you get to the top, the less of a bonus you get, and when you get up there with the big dogs, you have to beat them on equal ground.

THAT is 100000x times better then this stupid NUB crap.

Keep in mind this is coming from a NUB not a Vet.

Maelstrom February 19 2006 11:00 AM EST

GL, regarding BA rate:

FAQ#3: Why does the number of BA I get change? It was 10 when I started; now it's less.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 19 2006 1:34 PM EST

Wow! :D Never knew that!!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 19 2006 1:38 PM EST

The Apocalypse Book (1322148)
Cosmos (1320083)

Mantra February 19 2006 3:14 PM EST

Cosmos (1323176)
The Apocalypse Book (1322767)

QBOddBird February 19 2006 3:15 PM EST


YOU February 19 2006 3:15 PM EST

/me get ready to buy huge items

Mantra February 19 2006 3:19 PM EST

With 4 days to spare, I would say if Jon's intentions were to get a serious NUB player close to the top he was very very close, especially if you factor in the fact that I used a RoE but haven't bought some of my minions yet.

WeaponX February 19 2006 3:21 PM EST


AdminShade February 19 2006 3:27 PM EST

congrats Mantra :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 19 2006 3:37 PM EST

Glad you beat me to it Mantra...congrats!

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] February 19 2006 4:23 PM EST

Congrats, Mantra, and welcome to the forums! Don't get too distracted by them, compulsive posting leads to wasting of BA. ;)

{CB1}-Mokaba February 19 2006 4:27 PM EST

Congratulations Mantra :)

[T]Vestax February 19 2006 4:31 PM EST

Bah, I'm waiting for Ranger to train his xp. He is always sand-bagging, because its a better way to counter an upcoming contender's strategy. In my opinion, Mantra still hasn't overcome Ranger and probably won't, not until he makes the fatal mistake of buying that extra minion with the money he's saving.

Yet, I suppose a congratulations is still in order.

chappy [Soup Ream] February 19 2006 4:46 PM EST

Oh he'll buy another minion alright ... and I'm sure he'll make good use out of it ...

/me waits in anticipation...

Blarg February 19 2006 8:01 PM EST

congrats mantra! :)
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