Max tattoo lower (in Changelog)

Admante March 25 2006 5:37 AM EST

My max tattoo just went from 440k to 340k and i didnt unlearn anything or fire minions. What happened?

Rizz March 25 2006 5:38 AM EST

/me thinks its an update. it was everyone.

chelon March 25 2006 5:47 AM EST

bah took me 3 days to get max tattoo over my tattoo... now its all over agian.

WeaponX March 25 2006 8:22 AM EST

this is no change there would be a changelog

QBRanger March 25 2006 9:37 AM EST

It is not just the Max Tattoo Level.

It seem the weapon allowance has dropped as well.

{CB1}Lukeyman March 25 2006 9:45 AM EST

*Lukey Shouts*

Early April Fools!!!!! :D

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 25 2006 10:03 AM EST

mine almost halved, but luckily my tattoo is only lvl 400k, lol. Meh, i don't fight anymore anyway, so it doesn't matter to me, lol.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 25 2006 10:04 AM EST

PR / MPR: 667,464 / 405,509

but holy crap, that changed alot............

AdminShade March 25 2006 10:05 AM EST

erm what are you all talking about, I see no difference...

QBJohnnywas March 25 2006 10:10 AM EST

pah, 100k off my max tattoo level. And me with an outsized tattoo means I've just lost 100k worth of tattoo effect! I guess my tank needed to go on a diet.... ;)

Maelstrom March 25 2006 10:20 AM EST

I don't see a difference either. You're all crazy.

Of course, with my new character, I probably wouldn't notice if something like this actually happened. Which it didn't.


Ox [StephenMelinda Gates Fund] March 25 2006 10:21 AM EST

mine lowered significantly

AdminJonathan March 25 2006 10:29 AM EST

Whoops, forgot to announce this.

Yeah, as of cache flush max tattoo is lower.

(But weapon allowance is unchanged.)

WeaponX March 25 2006 10:35 AM EST

you basically just crippled lower level ToA tanks with this.

DD34isback(justkidding) [Severswoed Accounting] March 25 2006 10:38 AM EST

hi Jon

BMWheatley March 25 2006 10:38 AM EST

Good change. : )

Tezmac March 25 2006 10:38 AM EST

Yep, another good change, thanks Jon!

AdminNightStrike March 25 2006 10:39 AM EST

What was the reason for this change?

BootyGod March 25 2006 10:39 AM EST

Jon= Hater of Tanks. lol just kidding Jon. You know we all love you.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 25 2006 10:39 AM EST


Maelstrom March 25 2006 10:40 AM EST

Huh. So you people aren't crazy :p

AdminShade March 25 2006 10:44 AM EST

What does this change have to do with tanks in particular?

I mean, everyone is mumbling and muttering about "Jon hates tanks, Jon hates tanks" but he lowered Maximum Tattoo level, which is for all tattoos.

So also non tank based teams are hit by this IF they have a tattoo equipped which would be over their Max tattoo.

Also by lowering the max tattoo, you now have a lower effective NW when having a maxed out tattoo, and thus a lower PR, which makes you gain better rewards.

So in other words, great change! too bad it doesn't affect me.

WeaponX March 25 2006 10:51 AM EST

a single FB mage with a RoE is now king down in the 1-500k MPR range shade. this change makes ToA tanks at low levels no better than a non ToA tank... it's actually worse because you can't wear a TSA to buff ST and no mage shield to help vs magic damage. so in conclusion a non ToA tank now has an advantage over a ToA tank at lower levels

AdminNightStrike March 25 2006 10:51 AM EST

My rewards fell through the floor, because now I can't kill the same people I Was fighting. I have to fight much lower, and am now seeing about half the XP I was getting originally. What this implies is that my team is more tattoo focused than the people around me. I don't understand why that is somehow a bad thing.

[T]Vestax March 25 2006 10:57 AM EST

I lost a potential of 400k. For a moment there I could have used the full potential of Ranger's Tat. I suppose this will hamper my plans to buy him out.

BootyGod March 25 2006 11:04 AM EST

Shade I lost ST and have seen absolutely no increase in rewards. Besides I use tanks so I will complain about it hurting tanks. If someone else wants to complain and say Jon= Hater of Mages thats cool too. Let me complain will ya? lol

Lumpy Koala March 25 2006 11:27 AM EST

should make it lower :P about 1:1 to MPR would be nice hehehe

QBRanger March 25 2006 11:58 AM EST

This change likely is due to the Tattoo on steroids we see with NCB and NUB power levelling tattoos.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 25 2006 12:03 PM EST

Well at least he didn't nerf the NCB...oh wait...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 25 2006 12:12 PM EST

So how can you do this without at least a partial rescale?
It makes the Huge tat's up top untouchable now...Ranger must be cooing.

QBJohnnywas March 25 2006 12:21 PM EST

Sorry I'm getting confused by some of the posts I'm reading here. Jon's lowered the max tattoo level. Which does mean that some people have less tattoo power - me included. But how does that affect the Uber tattoos and their levelling? Tattoo levelling hasn't changed has it? We've just had a bit of a tattoo rescale is all...

Ox [StephenMelinda Gates Fund] March 25 2006 12:38 PM EST

Just makes it so people can't keep creating NCB's in an effort solely to get their tattoo the highest possible. Fixed an exploit.

AdminShade March 25 2006 12:38 PM EST

tatoo levelling itself hasn't changed indeed, but some of those top tattoos now are above the max tattoo level, so they don't level anymore.

[T]Vestax March 25 2006 12:38 PM EST

Rescale? I like the sound of that word. Bring it on.

QBJohnnywas March 25 2006 12:44 PM EST

They may be above the max tattoo level. But the rate of levelling hasn't changed and unless Jon slows down the levelling speed of the max tattoo level it will soon go above tattoo level eventually. I only lost 100k of max tattoo level and at the rate my char is growing I'll get that back in a couple of days....

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 25 2006 12:47 PM EST

By how much did it change? My tattoo is still 700k under my max.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 25 2006 12:58 PM EST

Ok let me explain why Rangers tat is now safe as the largest, (and why it wasn't before)

Mikel being the perfect example, with the formerly liberal max tat, he was able
to level a tattoo of over a mil before he had likely broken 600k mpr, thus with his BA buying and consistant fighting, his tattoo is now just slightly smaller than
Rangers. Someone who had a 1.5 mil level tattoo, could have done the same thing, but once again the door has been shut after Mikel (and some others) have happily run through to the other side.

QBJohnnywas March 25 2006 1:05 PM EST

I understand your point Nov but unless the ratio between tattoo and max level has been lowered somebody starting with a new tattoo now would be able to uber-level a tattoo. So, my question now to Jon is have you simply lowered the level now or changed the ratio?

QBJohnnywas March 25 2006 1:06 PM EST

And if the ratio between the two is changed then I bow to your wisdom Nov!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 25 2006 1:38 PM EST

I'm not sure what you mean by ratio, but essentially lowering that max tat changes when a player can start leveling a tat. With the change, someone starts being able to level a tat much later in there bonus period, thus the power leveling we saw with Mikel, and many people had long expected to see over all is prevented. My complaint is that there seems to be no desire to repair the damage done by these mistakes, I know I sound like I'm picking on Mikel but honestly he's just the best example of what happens when Jon makes a mistake and doesn't catch on for a while.

Zacharia Andrew Pa!n March 25 2006 1:47 PM EST


Very happy to see this outweighing of power come to an end for the noobs in some ways. Hopefully we can see more in the future. Right now I personally think the NCB and NUB is extremely overpowered. I mean to see people getting the rewards they are getting in chat is almost insane...

Especially when you compare PR's and Scores.

[T]Vestax March 25 2006 2:06 PM EST

The new Max Tattoo is clearly a flat subtraction. My guess is that it is the old max tattoo value minus the 'uberness' of that player. So as a player increases their 'mad crazy skillz' they will be able to equip a higher tattoo. This explains why Bast doesn't notice a thing and why some people have a higher level of 'owned' today then they did yesterday.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 25 2006 3:09 PM EST


Lowering the max tattoo means any NUB/NCB player with a large tattoo will reach their max earlier, and have *more* bonus time to power level it! Go Go NCB Tattoo leveling!

On the other hand, it lowers the power of teams using a tattoo *above* thier max (like a new NCB char with a massive FF), which while hurting me, is a brilliant change!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 25 2006 3:17 PM EST

Hehehehe! I must be hung over still! Lowering the Max Level makes it harder for bonus people to power level thier tattoos.

Which is good, but I agree, catching the top tat's now will be hard.

Ox [StephenMelinda Gates Fund] March 25 2006 3:40 PM EST

Maybe this will help the ailing tattoo market.

Grant March 25 2006 4:58 PM EST

Well, as long as we're on the subject, anything over MPR is still too high.

And for those complaining, GentlemanLoser and I prefer to use FF to ToA, so we consider this a mage nerf.

Donning asbestos ... Now :)

[T]Vestax March 25 2006 6:39 PM EST

My SF has been with me since I was a wee little cub with only 40k to 50k MPR to my name. I have never rented it out nor have I power leveled it with any other character aside from the one it is currently on. I got it as a level 20 tattoo.

There are only two other things to note about this tat. 1) I have re-inked it twice when it was over 600k. 2) I did trade it once with Koala for her smaller tattoo and traded her's back for mine once her old tattoo was larger then my old one. Essentially I lost plenty of levels in this small double trade.

My tattoo is now 79k levels above my MPR. Are you saying that it is too high? Are you saying that I should be encouraged to give up my little guy, who has been with me since the beginning, because his level grows slightly faster then my MPR?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 25 2006 6:43 PM EST

I'm saying that anyone with a tat over 1.5 mil besides Bast and Ranger wouldn't have a tat that size without the "bug". Maybe I'm wrong in an individual case, but I think my point stands. I'm not talking about people who have a tat around mpr, I'm talking about either allowing everyone the same chance some got. I think it's silly that Jon let it go on for this long and then closed the door.

[T]Vestax March 25 2006 6:54 PM EST

My tattoo is currently 8.3% more then my MPR. In a month it will be over 10%. In two months most likely 11-12% larger. Bast's is 17.5% larger then her MPR and I know she has taken it off plenty of times on Sundays to use a RoE on some of her minions.

So my question is how far are you willing to go to stop the 'bug' at the expense of those who legitimately leveled up their tattoos?

And if in case you just joined us, I'm not arguing against this change. I'm just wondering why some people think a 1:1 ratio of tattoo level to MPR would be a good measure to take.

Nakmirax March 25 2006 7:12 PM EST

ok, I was wondering what just happened. My low level tank with a ToA (on NUB) just dropped 15,000 STR and about 10,000 DEX. For my less than 100k character that was quiet a surprise. I must admit, being a new player, I didn't even know I could take advantage of NUB to power level my tattoo. Ugh, the frustration of having a tattoo based tank increased.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 25 2006 9:05 PM EST

If you Tattoo is above your Max Tattoo Level, it get's reduced to working at that level. At the MTL just got reduced, the amount of Str and Dex supplied by a ToA (over the MTL) just got reduced.

If you use a Tattoo lower than your new MTL anyway, you won't see any change.


TuffBunny101 [girl power] March 25 2006 11:08 PM EST

I dont think it works the same my max Tattoo has not gone up in over 400 battles

DonMega March 25 2006 11:51 PM EST

i lost almost 200 on my max tattoo. i was useing a RoE so it doesnt matter to me ....yet.... I like the change thou.

Stephen March 25 2006 11:53 PM EST

TuffBunny, have you trained?

TuffBunny101 [girl power] March 26 2006 12:35 AM EST

yes I have trained

chelon March 26 2006 2:55 AM EST

seem my max tattoo is lower than my mpr is that normal?

TuffBunny101 [girl power] March 26 2006 2:57 AM EST

oh oh I think its finally going up

Crux Terminatus March 27 2006 7:08 AM EST

I dunno, this change really hurt me, I lost round 400k max tattoo lvl...
wouldn't be a big deal, but my main char relies totally on my it really nerfed my effectiveness on a whole..I was wondering why I was getting Draws more frequently...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 27 2006 8:08 AM EST

4E + SF. The Tattoo Max level grew faster than a character could. So (if you had a tattoo at or above your max), not only did you have a larger MM than a mage could grow, you had 4 enchanters to go with it.

A little overpowered don't you think. ;)

Crux Terminatus March 27 2006 12:26 PM EST

not really..I still got wailed on..but now I get wailed on more effectivly..and can do even less about it...
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