tweaking weapon damage & BL cap (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan June 30 2006 9:33 AM EDT

If you want to make this easy for me, compare the damage output in melee for a tank and a mage where ST is about the same as DD level. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 9:34 AM EDT

Do you want UC as well as weapon damage Jon?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 9:36 AM EDT

Guys and Girls, I offer my Character up for retraining.

Post your Strengths and damages, and I'll retrain to get a DD (does it matter which one Jon?) equal to your Str.

AdminJonathan June 30 2006 9:43 AM EDT

UC is actually harder to run the numbers for because of how it gets split into pth and dmg. So let's stick with real weapons for now.

AdminJonathan June 30 2006 9:44 AM EDT

Now that's why GL is a QB. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 9:57 AM EDT

Thanks! :D

First lot of testing

258,030 Str, [92x114] +(33) Bone.

Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [115516]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Matsumoto Rangiku [127442]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [108903]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Shihouin Yoruichi [124650]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Shihouin Yoruichi [83124]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Kusajishi Yachiru [87866]
Violet Bier of Sorrows eviscerated Kusajishi Yachiru [91682]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Kusajishi Yachiru [85601]


Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Matsumoto Rangiku [112883]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [78145]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Shihouin Yoruichi [109765]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Shihouin Yoruichi [120357]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Shihouin Yoruichi [77925]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Kusajishi Yachiru [89186]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Kusajishi Yachiru [99368]


Two fights from a target with no AC and no Endurance.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 30 2006 10:10 AM EDT

A Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x1541] (+82) ST: 203,192/136,371 I'm afraid I have BL at .73. Fights versus Bunker - no damage reduction. Naruto rived PowerGenerator1 [423588] Naruto lacerated PowerGenerator2 [386520] Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator2 [604313] Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator2 [581764] Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator3 [541277] Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator3 [485104] Naruto dislimbed Thorns's familiar [552522] Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [474217] Naruto eviscerated Thorns [609951] Naruto eviscerated Thorns [551963] Naruto eviscerated Thorns [448864] Naruto dislimbed PowerGenerator1 [547937] Naruto dislimbed PowerGenerator2 [536838] Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator2 [498482] Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator3 [613477] Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator3 [409762] Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [498549] Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [541555] Naruto dislimbed Thorns's familiar [529452] Naruto carved into Thorns [476402] Naruto eviscerated Thorns [633064]

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 10:10 AM EDT

258,030 ( 112,042) MM. facing a 0.12 AMF

**30% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3764)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Soi Fong [66954]


**20% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4302)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Kusajishi Yachiru [63142]


**10% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4840)!


Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (5378)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Matsumoto Rangiku [52137]


**30% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3764)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Soi Fong [61065]


**20% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4302)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Kusajishi Yachiru [68543]


**10% Ranged Reduction**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4840)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Shihouin Yoruichi [55831]


Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (5378)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Matsumoto Rangiku [60693]




Again, same target, so no AC/Endurance

AdminJonathan June 30 2006 10:15 AM EDT

So with a pretty low-grade BNE you're doing slightly more damage than the MM already.

Mages will be relieved to know that's not how it's supposed to work. :)

bartjan June 30 2006 10:17 AM EDT

test tube has equal ST and DD spell. The weapon is A Blade of Thuringwethil [73x350] (+30).
I'll let others use the BA to find the play-by-plays ;)

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 30 2006 10:17 AM EDT

OK after some quick help in chat I'll try that again.
A Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x1541] (+82) ST: 203,192/136,371 I'm afraid I have BL at .73. Fights versus Bunker - no damage reduction.
Naruto rived PowerGenerator1 [423588]
Naruto lacerated PowerGenerator2 [386520]
Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator2 [604313]
Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator2 [581764]
Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator3 [541277]
Naruto decapitated PowerGenerator3 [485104]
Naruto dislimbed Thorns's familiar [552522]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [474217]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns [609951]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns [551963]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns [448864]
Naruto dislimbed PowerGenerator1 [547937]
Naruto dislimbed PowerGenerator2 [536838]
Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator2 [498482]
Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator3 [613477]
Naruto eviscerated PowerGenerator3 [409762]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [498549]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns's familiar [541555]
Naruto dislimbed Thorns's familiar [529452]
Naruto carved into Thorns [476402]
Naruto eviscerated Thorns [633064]

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 10:18 AM EDT

Please also say UC is bugged! ;)

203,192 (86,592) MM (To match BLs Str) versus same target so 0.12 AMF reduction and no AC//Endurance

**-30%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3394)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Soi Fong [28734]


**-20%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3879)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Soi Fong [50570]


**-10%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4364)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Kusajishi Yachiru [49233]


Melee Combat
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4849)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Shihouin Yoruichi [63172]


Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4849)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Matsumoto Rangiku [62215]


**-30%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3394)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Soi Fong [47163]


**-20%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (3879)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Kusajishi Yachiru [34008]


**-10%**
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4364)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Kusajishi Yachiru [45419]


Melee Combat
Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4849)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Shihouin Yoruichi [39366]


Violet Bier of Sorrows takes damage from his own Magic missile (4849)!
Violet Bier of Sorrows's Magic missile hit Matsumoto Rangiku [59099]

Revs June 30 2006 10:25 AM EDT

I know this might not be enough conclusive data, but this is a comparison on 10 trials of str/wep damage vs my CoC damage. I would do more but I'm flying out the door to work. Data listed below, str and DD level not the same, but close enough to use the data I think, with compensating a bit.

On Nemesis:
Catalyst str 656k using a BoTh at 73x757+50
Average damage over 10 trials against random opponents = 356k damage

Glacier CoC 751176
Average damage over 10 trials against random opponents = 138k damage

Problems: very difficult to consider varying AC, TSA effect, spell effects, etc.

Sry I don't have time to test more, gotta run. Hope it helps somehow.

Zeromus June 30 2006 10:41 AM EDT

Rydia's Fireball hit Shadow Clone [4025], Shadow Clone [1677], Shadow Clone [4382], Naruto Uzumaki [3912]
Shadow Clone's Magic missile hit Rydia [4338]
Shadow Clone's Decay hit Rydia [9809]
Shadow Clone's Magic missile hit Rydia [5182]
Naruto Uzumaki dislimbed Rydia [45274]
Naruto Uzumaki decapitated Rydia [31977]
Naruto Uzumaki cries "Shadow Clone Jutsu!"

R.I.P. Rydia

help?

Zeromus June 30 2006 10:42 AM EDT

oh forgot to add my DD spell is about 4 times his ST

AdminShade June 30 2006 10:51 AM EDT

ST: 852,585/200,000

Grond 'Hammer of the Underworld' [84x2190] (+50)


Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 14 / 14 / 804,796
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 580,122
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 6 / 6 / 674,339
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 8 / 8 / 678,068
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 7 / 7 / 604,751

some average damages against people from my fight list.

AdminJonathan June 30 2006 11:22 AM EDT

Okay, I've cut weapon damage by a bit less than half, and capped BL at 0.6 (from 0.75).

[T]Vestax June 30 2006 11:25 AM EDT

Unless its a big deal or unless people have problems with it, could we please get our MPB reset?

bartjan June 30 2006 11:25 AM EDT

Can my MPB be fixed to not show something I probably will never reach again?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 11:27 AM EDT

Need any more testing done Jon?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 30 2006 11:28 AM EDT

GL is teacher's pet :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 11:30 AM EDT

:P

Nah, I just really wanted physical damage scaled down! And the best way to get that done is help show the imballance!

I want my new Two Mage Strat to be viable! :P

Hakai [Aye Phelta Thi] June 30 2006 11:35 AM EDT

perhaps you got your wish?

It would seem that the damage has lessened...though there is no confirmed posts about it yet though

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 30 2006 11:37 AM EDT

Jon has confirmed it here.

AdminJonathan June 30 2006 11:46 AM EDT

# update parties set max_blow = 0.4 * max_blow where max_blow > 100000;
UPDATE 213

QBRanger June 30 2006 11:49 AM EDT

Perhaps this should be moved to Changelog so in the future people can easily find this thread. Considering it is a major change from the first changelog today.

That is 50% less damage, a MPB reset, and a decrease in the BL level.

Just a thought.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 12:16 PM EDT

Re did my original Bone Test. Same Strength, same opponent.

Violet Bier of Sorrows eviscerated Matsumoto Rangiku [63541]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Matsumoto Rangiku [47438]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [54165]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Shihouin Yoruichi [62324]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Shihouin Yoruichi [46389]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Kusajishi Yachiru [60427]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Kusajishi Yachiru [57579]


Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [67831]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Matsumoto Rangiku [63722]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Matsumoto Rangiku [51327]
Violet Bier of Sorrows decapitated Shihouin Yoruichi [69693]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Shihouin Yoruichi [69236]
Violet Bier of Sorrows eviscerated Shihouin Yoruichi [47392]
Violet Bier of Sorrows eviscerated Kusajishi Yachiru [49483]
Violet Bier of Sorrows dislimbed Kusajishi Yachiru [58629]

AdminShade June 30 2006 12:42 PM EDT

I updated my stats, but my MPB didn't go down...

Angel of Death [Hell Blenders] June 30 2006 1:17 PM EDT

this is much better, mages have a change to survive now

[T]Vestax June 30 2006 1:42 PM EDT

Confirmed. My MPB is still the same, and yes it is above 100,000.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2006 1:57 PM EDT

Probably need to wait for cache flush tomorrow?

Colonel Custard June 30 2006 9:18 PM EDT

So how is UC and ranged damage affected by this change? My x307 Axbow is only doing like 12k damage or so, which seems really low.

Negator July 1 2006 3:40 AM EDT

My rented Elven Bootswent back today, and at the same time, my BL dropped to 0.6, so I thought, "Wow, those EB's really affected my Skill level! Better train the BL up again!"

After training a day's worth of Exp into BL, I read this thread. Ack!

Nerevas July 1 2006 11:15 PM EDT

It seems the required ratio of bloodlust to strength is less now to achieve the full .6 effect. My str is fairly passed 4x my bloodlust and my effect hasn't dropped under .6. Can you tell us what the new ratio might be, or if this is a bug?

Tezmac July 1 2006 11:16 PM EDT

I noticed that as well, wasn't sure if it was a bug or if Jon dropped the ratio required and didn't tell us.

Tezmac July 3 2006 10:29 AM EDT

Quick bump for this latest point. :O)

Flamey July 3 2006 10:33 AM EDT

agreed, to make Tez happy.

I haven't been training ST yet because i need to up my VA a lot so only DX but, my BL is less than 1/4

Tezmac July 3 2006 10:42 AM EDT

Yeah, my base ST is 370K, so I rented a decent TSA to get my ST up to 560k. My BL is still 0.6. :O)

bartjan July 4 2006 2:03 AM EDT

My guess: 1/5

QBPixel Sage July 4 2006 2:22 AM EDT

So many changes, so confusing... how much more effective are physical attacks now, on an average/vague estimate?

bartjan July 4 2006 3:03 AM EDT

My MPB is now almost 2.5x as large as before the change, with only minor increases in ST and damage.

Lumpy Koala July 4 2006 4:18 AM EDT

tank blender is back :D I am so glad there's still mages around for me to fight with hehe

miteke [Superheros] July 10 2006 8:04 AM EDT

I'm going to have to leave the mage ranks. My ToE CoC strat was completely nerfed by the last change. I can't compete with all the AMF tanks ripping me a new one.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 10 2006 8:30 AM EDT

I've tried a defensive strategy at the bottom ranks, CoC with and without a ToE and found it to not be offective. I've changed to FB/MM which is working much better.

Mages are still viable, but offence is so much more improtant than defense now.

QBRanger July 10 2006 9:01 AM EDT

'Mages are still viable, but offence is so much more improtant than defense now. '

GL, when was defense ever really a part of this game. Except for walls, CB2 is an offensive game.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 10 2006 10:15 AM EDT

Yeah. :(

I thought things were really coming together to give defense a fighting chance. 400AC Walls, PL, AoAC, Endurance, ToE Auras.

Then weapons get supercharged and it all goes out the window again! :P
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