Help me finalise my Anti-Tank (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 4:47 AM EDT

I just can't decide. :)

First the basis. I want to build a minion/team based around reducing (and hopefully negating) Tank damage with EC, and using a RoBF to punish tanks when they do hit. And I like single minions. :)

So starting with a single minion, I would train HP and EC. This and the RoBF takes care of Tanks. But how to do damage? Using a weapon is out of the question, as I'll never have enough Str (and/or Dex) to make it worthwile. So that means a DD spell. Either FB/MM. No skill would help (evasion is not the goal, I want tanks to hit me, many times, for little damage), and I'd take a base Protection.

I'd be great versus Tanks and FB mages, but MM and CoC would be a problem. Also, with little AC, GA will hurt.

Is adding a second minion the answer?

There are two permutations I can see when adding a second minion.

1) Having the Second minion as a PL Wall, behind my mage.

2) Having the RoBF on the rear minion, with the front being an AoI/PL minion.

Adding a second minion will cut down on my XP concentration, lowering my DD level and EC, unless I train EC on both minions.

With 1) If I use a MgS, I won't be able to train two ECs. Maybe it would be better just using a TSA and MS and training EC. I wouldn't want an AoI on the front minion, as I want physical attacks to hit the RoBF wearer, for most burning damage.

With 2) I could stick an AoI on the front minion and train FB on it. (The rear minion being hit first by physical attacks and not taking as much splash damage due to the RoBF). As the front minion would be the main damage dealer (with FB and the rear minion wearing minus DD items) I sohuld probably stick PL on the rear minion to keep my FB going longer.

:/

I just can't make this gel into something I'm happy with...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2006 4:58 AM EDT

Arch+HP (and maybe some str, as it helps with damage reduction and mage disposal) RoBF CML, TG, HoD, MS w/10-25 level prot trained, along with either DM or AMF at a minimal level.
PL EC AS (heavy on the EC)

The RoBF might work better on the enchanter, and count on a full AC set to make the tank hit the RoBF more times, rather than for more damage.

QBJohnnywas July 24 2006 5:23 AM EDT

NCB bonus being what it is, you don't have to worry as much about xp spread across multi minions. I'd go with the second minion. It will allow you to be abit more flexible with your enchantments, and focus some xp onto damage.

With what you're suggesting you can't scrimp on damage, because you'll be toast when you face other mage teams, and you'll be stalemating when you're up against a big tank.

Go for two minions...

AdminShade July 24 2006 5:24 AM EDT

An ideal anti tank 'combo' you will need, it lowering ST enough to make tank hits do much, much less damage but still have the tank scratch you to activate the robf damage.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 5:31 AM EDT

"With what you're suggesting you can't scrimp on damage, because you'll be toast when you face other mage teams, and you'll be stalemating when you're up against a big tank."

Good points, but that's what the RoBF damage if for when facing tanks.

If I stick with two minons, I could add decay. That could let me have nice damage for low XP investment (realising that AMF will hurt) and allow me to use an EXBow to lower Str even more, if my EC doesn't do the job fully.

So, two minions, one FB one Decay. Who gets the RoBF and who get's the AoI?

:/

QBJohnnywas July 24 2006 5:42 AM EDT

Oh now that's a tricky one. Instinct tells me to RBF the FB guy and chuck the AoI on the decay guy...but I'd also consider putting both the AoI and the RBF on the FB mage...and forget decay.....

If you make both guys last into melee putting decay on there just increases your vulnerability to AMF...

Mmmm.....



Do you know what though, if you intend to specialise there will be enough opponents (can you say Deee Lite, can you say Deee M???) that will be extra vulnerable to this.

But the tank teams that concentrate on melee might be harder to beat....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 6:10 AM EDT

How about going back to a single minion with;

HP, EC, Str, Base Protection. Melee weapon and EXBow.

Actually, how about two minions.

1) HP, EC (heavily weighted), FB and AoI

2) HP, EC, Str and RoBF. With Melee weapon (VB?) and EXBow?

If so, PL on which minion?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 6:18 AM EDT

Answered my own question. You want the rear minion with the RoBF to last to melee. So PL on the front AoI protected FB mage to help when facing MM.

I like this second option a lot.

1) PL, HP, EC, FB (with whatever ED, Prot/VA...) with AG and AoI.

2) HP, EC, Str with RoBF, AoAC, TG, CML, HoE and MS. Big melee weapon and EXBow.

:)

Any thing I've missed with this? And thanks all for the help thrashing this out! :D

QBJohnnywas July 24 2006 6:41 AM EDT

That looks more like it...what melee weapon you going to go with? Personally I'd lose the shield and go two handed. That way you can pump the weapon for a lot more damage to even out the fact that you're not going to be able to pump strength as much because of the other ingredients.

Does the RBF flare on every strike now? Or is it just once a round? If it's once a round then perhaps DBs might be better than CMLs. Cut down their PTH enough so they go down to single strikes?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 6:48 AM EDT

It's every hit. :)

QBJohnnywas July 24 2006 6:53 AM EDT

Mmm. That's a little bit tricky then. You want your EC to be high enough so they become little wimps but not high enough so they do nothing but miss.....

I guess keeping an eye on the st/dex stats and maybe keeping EC so that it will take out maybe 60/70% of what they have.....


Interesting....

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 7:03 AM EDT

That's why no evasion/DBs. I'll take them having equal dex to me, and let them kill themselves with their pth attacks. :)

What tank doesn't pump their pth? :P

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] July 24 2006 8:49 AM EDT

*finalize ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 8:54 AM EDT

I'm English. :)

I also include 'u' in Colour and Honour. ;)

Sir Woot July 24 2006 9:40 AM EDT

Pfft, when are you English going to stop messing up the American language?

;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 9:42 AM EDT

When you give it back? ;)

Wasp [Demon Forging] July 24 2006 11:31 AM EDT

Not to mention Armour.

QBJohnnywas July 24 2006 11:56 AM EDT

Ah, Wasp, out of all the spell check niggles that's the one that annoys me most. "Armor" meh, it's 'armour'!!!!!!

velvetpickle July 24 2006 12:17 PM EDT

Wiki - Damages melee attackers that hit, with fire. (similar to Guardian Angel) Damage returned seems to be about 10% tattoo level, pre-AC, etc. reduction. Damages attacker with every blow they deal.

even if you go with a lvl 1mil+ tat, you will be dealing out roughly 100k dmg from the RoBF...


Exken crunched Joe with Malleus Maleficarum [348148]
Exken draws strength from his weapon! [199907]

the type of dmg the RoBF will be doing won't even be able to negate VA/MH hp gains on bigger tanks with bigger VA's. Granted, blows will not be as strong due to your EC, but my MPB is currently nowhere near the big weaps in the game. I know one of my main focuses going forward with my minions will be training to negate the effects of EC/Axbow/Exbow, and upping my MPB.

Toa tank teams will most often have higher Str than Dex, meaning EC will either cause them to miss completly every round (negating your ROBF), or have enough Str left to still do some nice dmg on single hits...

Even on teams with "equal" str/dex, EC will be difficult to train effectively in that you have to compensate for a wide range of PTH on weapons. If you take two teams with similar dex/str, the ammount or EC that causes one team to miss you every round may still allow another double hits from a larger PTH weapon, or a DM team.

My feeling is that an RoBF would be better paired with an extremly large Exbow, with possibly a smaller EC. This would allow big dex/PTH teams to scratch you multiple times, maximizing your RoBF dmg. How you would incoroporate this into your team plans, or if it could be incoroprated I don't know..... just my two cents.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 1:55 PM EDT

P. A couple of things, the RoBF was recently boosted, I'm aiming to use an EXBow alongside EC and PL will negate any VA/MH/BTh leaching. :)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2006 1:57 PM EDT

can't remember if it's now 30% or if it was just boosted 30% up from 10%.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2006 1:59 PM EDT

Does about 30% more, so if it was 10% of level, it does about 13% of level per hit now?

velvetpickle July 24 2006 4:27 PM EDT

If you can keep up with a big enough PL it sounds like a pretty firm strat., if you can toe the delicate line of balancing EC... GL and I can't wait to see it in action against me :)
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