Ranged changes (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan September 18 2006 10:54 PM EDT

Miandrital September 18 2006 10:56 PM EDT

I love the sling changes!

House September 18 2006 10:57 PM EDT

coolness all around
can i get my ELB back ?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 18 2006 10:57 PM EDT

I love the changes. Good for my Strat!

Relic September 18 2006 10:59 PM EDT

Impressive changes, it will be good to see how things pan out. Love the Sling of Death name.

AdminQBVerifex September 18 2006 10:59 PM EDT

I called it!

<Jonathan> there will be a supporter item this month, yes
<Verifex> all the old school CB'rs hope for a SOD! :)

Dudster4 September 18 2006 11:04 PM EDT

Can i get a "Woot Woot"

Bok [brimstone killers] September 18 2006 11:09 PM EDT

i love this changemonth

QBBarzooMonkey September 18 2006 11:09 PM EDT

Holy cow! When Slayer arrows hit, they hit HARD!!!! Woot Woot!!!!

QBOddBird September 18 2006 11:10 PM EDT

My UC minion becometh invincible. =D

WeaponX September 18 2006 11:11 PM EDT

interesting but not going to be a big deal once everyone adjusts

AdminJonathan September 18 2006 11:15 PM EDT

auctions are up

QBRanger September 18 2006 11:15 PM EDT

So seekers again seek past an AOI?

If so, well it was good while it lasted.

Lets make the axbow useful now.

QBRanger September 18 2006 11:17 PM EDT

Nymandus shot The Grid with A Vorpal Bow [883020]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [113598]
Nymandus struck deep into The Grid with A Vorpal Bow [962492]
Nymandus struck deep into The Grid with A Vorpal Bow [777010]
Life missed Prophecies

Just got to love that.

My COC mage does not even get psat the first 2 hits.

Dudster4 September 18 2006 11:18 PM EDT

lol i did not expect to see 20+ auctions lol

QBsutekh137 September 18 2006 11:29 PM EDT

-- Increased all ranged damage.

Physical damage, apparently.

That's just what we needed! A Tank buff! Thanks, Jonathan!

/me cries at his ever diminishing fightlist.

QBRanger September 18 2006 11:31 PM EDT

Well so much for COC mages.

With the archery buff AND the increased damage, no COC mage will get to melee rounds to start to cast spells unless they catch people using normal arrows before they equip their seekers for defense.

QBRanger September 18 2006 11:37 PM EDT

Nymandus struck deep into The Grid with A Vorpal Bow [1009294]

139AC backed by a 2.6M TOE.

Yea archery is back to cb1 days.

QBsutekh137 September 18 2006 11:37 PM EDT


Thanks, Jonathan! And farewell mages! Don't worry, I'll hang for a bit, and my massive Fireball can kiln-over the top of your graves. Nice hard clay-encased passage to the afterlife! My FB's useless in battle against tanks only 75% my size, granted, but hey, whoever said nearly 60 million experience trained (and that ain't counting the second highest SF in the game!) should offer anything useful! NOT ME!!!!!!! Not any more! Run away! Don't forget to die when you take that arrow in the back! w00t!

Tezmac September 18 2006 11:42 PM EDT

Its like all the FORS suggestions were compiled into one changemonth. Fantastic. Can we reopen CB1 now as we're back to page one?

TrueDevil [AAA] September 18 2006 11:43 PM EDT

I'm just glad I switched to tank, now let's just hope the next supporter item is a mage item.

QBRanger September 18 2006 11:45 PM EDT

/me loves that seeker arrow in the back in melee rounds now also.

/me waits now for cb3 where mages and tanks are balance, like it was before the seeker/archery buff.

QBsutekh137 September 18 2006 11:51 PM EDT

Sorry, I apologize for my outburst...

It made me transpose numbers: I didn't mean a tank with 75% my PR -- I meant one with 57%. Well done, Hand of Thrawn! Take note, other archers! Target Hubbell, and you probably only have to be half my size or so to win!

My team is worthless! Absolutely, pathetically worthless! Huzzah!

To at least try to take something away from this, maybe at least some knowledge of just _how_ worthless mages are: How much does physical damage have to be buffed before we do away with the Weapon Allowance? My 57% above isn't a typo. How much "stronger" does a team have to be before it can expect to beat just about everything? Factor of 3? 4? I'm in it for the long haul, I just want to get a bead on how many decades I need to be prepared to stick around in order to make a high-end mage viable?

By the way, if anyone cares to turn this into a "well, don't whine, single minion!" he/she will only be in violent agreement with me. The only thing more ridiculous then this tank buff would be the overwhelming love for multi-minion teams over the past 6-8 months... I fully believe I should be able to beat each and every team under 60% my PR, especially one that isn't really a specialty mage-killer. Hats off to Hand of Thrawn, but he only lays a 0.07 AMF on my minion, and only 0.13 on my familiar. It's the 7 / 7 / 242,851 ranged hitting on a team that size with nominal NW that I'm not understanding.

AdminJonathan September 19 2006 12:00 AM EDT

I think you are overreacting, sutekh: the 20% is to compensate for losing a whole round of damage at the beginning of melee, AND lost damage from the increased evasion effectiveness.

"The only thing more ridiculous then this tank buff would be the overwhelming love for multi-minion teams over the past 6-8 months"

No love for the explosive shot, hmm?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 19 2006 12:04 AM EDT

Sut, why don't you get some evasion, maybe some decent DB like you should have had a while back and see how things stand then ;)

QBRanger September 19 2006 12:06 AM EDT


I think all us mages will give up letting tanks hit in the first round of melee for 20% less damage. Especially those COC mages that now never get to fire in melee due to massive damage now.

1 hit from SNK and 2 hits from Nymandus on my 1.5M HP mage with 140 AC AND a 2.6M TOE easily kill it, even with my PL minion helping out.

Back to cb1, elbs rule the day.

And with AG's and COI's NOT giving AC anymore, how can a mage even get a decent AC to try to lower the damage. Forget about using EB's for AC, you have to try to use DB's to try to stop from getting hit.

Please rethink the seeker/AOI thing.

QBOddBird September 19 2006 12:10 AM EDT

Um...don't you still beat SNK3R? He can't afford to have Seekers on all the time.

And 500k Evasion is 2M defensive DX and a whole lot of -PTH.

*Thinks everyone is pessimistic.*

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 19 2006 12:11 AM EDT

/me emerges from under a pile of dislodged sky and wonders what happened

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 19 2006 12:16 AM EDT

This is going to require a heck of an Endurance buff to balance things out...

I'm also with Sut, PR is once again a measure of nothing.

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 12:18 AM EDT

Borderliner, does the evasion buff work with DBs? And yes, I have already been well-advised by one of the masters to learn Evasion, and I will.

Explosive shot, Jonathan? Um, once again, that's _physical_. So are you just basically saying "Be a tank, or be 3-4 minion mage team? Please don't try to tell me the 20% buff isn't a buff when there are a LOT of teams (like me) that aren't even seing three rounds much less four (especially if seekers are involved, a focus capability whose slant once again goes to the tanks (if not, give me a tank missile!)) Even your thinking on that is already slanted toward 3-4 minion teams, so you've pretty much answered my question. I thank you for that.

You are very damn right I am reacting, I just won't give you the "over" part. My fight list (25% reduction) bears it out empirically -- tanks are very much stronger against me, even much smaller ones. "Reacting" is what I do, and I have to do it every once in a while for the new players to experience the narcissism of The Sutekh. *smile*

kevinLeong September 19 2006 12:22 AM EDT

I think a neat idea to counter the effect of seekers would to make a new skill which "attracts" dmg. No matter what type of ammo is used, seekers or otherwise, it would cause the minion with the skill trained to be attacked, as long as the skill is maxed (something around 50-60% of dmg cause is trained in exp. This would be sort of like PL, except it causes people to attack that minion (it doesn't just absorb damage, it actually causes people to attack him rather than other minions). This would be beneficial to walls and counter the effect of seekers, assuming the person has put enough exp into the skill.

Just an idea.

AdminJonathan September 19 2006 12:23 AM EDT

"does the evasion buff work with DBs?"


"Explosive shot, Jonathan? Um, once again, that's _physical_. So are you just basically saying "Be a tank, or be 3-4 minion mage team?"

hey, you were complaining that the choice before was, "be a 3-4 minion tank team." I call that progress! :)

"I just won't give you the "over" part"

just so long as you can recognize a method to the madness in between the flashes of searing rage :)

"My fight list (25% reduction) bears it out empirically"

give the new free untrain a shot.

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 12:27 AM EDT

What, to become a tank? You gonna give us free x10000 ELBs too? *smile*

I did miss how good the Evasion buff could be, so I apologize for that. But I'm not overreacting. I'm not. I'M NOT!

/me falls to the ground and pounds fists into the linoleum...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 19 2006 12:29 AM EDT

I can't wait to see what Ranger's setup looks like by the end of the week...

jayuu September 19 2006 12:41 AM EDT

Is the free untrain a permanent feature?

AdminShade September 19 2006 5:41 AM EDT

Attack of the midgets!!!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 6:32 AM EDT

To be hinest, it's gonna take me a while to digest these changes. :)

But (and there's always a but...);

Ranged did not need such a large buff. It really has relegated DD to a gimick status.

It's just Tank counter Tank now. UC (or just an Evasion wall) to counter Archery. Or a BL tank with three meat shields.

Then BL get's to wail on the Archer (or UC Tank) through out Melee.

FB has it's damage reduced by spreading, MgS and AMF. MM just by the MgS and AMF (and large AC walls). Decay and CoC won't last to melee any more.

Take my charctaer I'm messing around with. Single minion using GS to buff a ToJ (only now just under my Max Tattoo level). This ToJ can't compete with Tanks, it does about 1/4 of the damage tanks my level do, but I obliterate Mages.

AMF plus it's Endurance stops them in thier tracks. Even if I only score a slight AMF % on them.

Evasion (The trianed skill) I doubt will be able to keep up with weapon + ammo pth (with the triple pth increase, and I haven't even mentioned ToA yet) and doesn't stack with DB. Plus DB doesn't get the new Ranged bonus.

At least there is no Vorpal Ranged weapon yet, instead of three 20 HP blockers, maybe Archery will be tamed by AoI and a 400AC Wall.

The Ex shot stuff is going to be nice, I wonder how many minions it hits, and with a new SoD maybe it's damage will actually count now. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 6:36 AM EDT

I tihnk I'll try a Single RBF minion, using only a Sling. ;)

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 6:37 AM EDT

This is quite an amusing thread so far. I've a little chuckle. I've also had some time to try out my team with a ranged attack and without.

That loss of the first round of melee can actually be pretty good for mage teams. Providing a CoC mage makes it there, he gets a whole round of dishing out damage against the tanks without taking any in return.

I've gone through my fightlist with bow equipped and without. I actually lost about 5 teams off my list when I went with bow, thanks to that missing melee round. A couple of mage teams I could beat before once my Morg got to work, were making mincemeat out of me now.

Taking the bow away so my only attack is in melee loses me the grand total of 1 team off my fightlist.

From my own experience this is actually better for mages, unless the tanks they face all become archers. I'm now going to only fight in melee thanks to this. And so in some ways this change is a bit bad for bloodlust tanks, unless we equip a really big bow of course. Now, spare some change for a nice shiny elb?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 6:53 AM EDT

Quick question. Does a minion with a ranged weapon and a melee only DD spell lost the first round of melee like a minion with a melee weapon?

Do you have to ready your DD spell?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 6:57 AM EDT

Second question Jon, what determins the number of hits for the Ex Shot? Does it still hit the front (non invisible) minion, and that determins the number of attacks thorugh dex that round, with that damage splashing, or does it ignore dex?


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 7:10 AM EDT

Heh. Answered my first question by retraining and equipping a ranged weapon. ;)

You don't lost the first round of melee combat using a sling and CoC.

AdminShade September 19 2006 7:24 AM EDT

Too many changes for me to check while not being at home...

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 7:40 AM EDT

Axbows and Exbows bypass the AoI now, incase anybody else hadn't noticed.

AdminShade September 19 2006 7:46 AM EDT

Archery is different: it no longer affects being able to fire during round 2 of ranged combat. Instead, it affects the ability to use a bow during all rounds -- without archery you will have about 20% of the chance-to-hit that you would have with maxed-out archery. Interpolation between these extremes is linear. (That is, 20% of both DX and non-DX based chance.)

Archery is only for Bows I presume?

Also with archery you have the 60% CTH penalty in melee? Without archery you have 12%?

Is that how it works now? strange...

IndependenZ September 19 2006 7:47 AM EDT

"If he has both ranged and melee weapons equipped, your minion will not attack during the first round of melee combat, while he readies his weapon."

I noticed Unarmed Combat does hit every round. Trained is not the same as equipped, I assume. Nice! Would be weird anyway, if a ninja would need time to prepare his fists :p

AdminShade September 19 2006 7:51 AM EDT

Though it is strange, because a ninja would also have to take time to remove its ranged weapon...

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 7:54 AM EDT

That change to the AoI - the anti seeker properties - is hurting me a lot now btw...maybe a return to the old heavy tank where the standard build was a xbow is in order. I might try that out...

AdminShade September 19 2006 8:08 AM EDT

* Removed dx penalty for shield + ranged weapon

This means that during ranged, you don't have your shield equipped, is it also that you don't have the AC from it then? How about MgS properties, do they still work then?

Looks a bit awkward solution imo but that could just be me.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 8:10 AM EDT

This is actually a nerf to the damage of BL tanks. A quite nice nerf. ;)

A BL tank either;

Uses a ranged weapon, with a crappy chance to hit if you're using a bow, or low damage on slings XBows, and lose your first Melee round for damage


Dosn't use a ranged weapon now. So three rounds less damage.

Nice. ;)

But archers are going to be a royal pain. Make DB stack with evasion properly!

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 8:11 AM EDT

yup BL nerf. I blame you GL and Seft!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 8:17 AM EDT

I'm liking the changes a lot. My only fear is that ELBow archers will be made too powerful.

You can now use your ELBow in every melee round. Still with a 60% cth/pth penalty though.

I hope this doesn't force everyone to get three meat shield minions to suck up ranged damage...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 19 2006 8:32 AM EDT

Can you use the ELB in every round? I just tried it, didn't seem that way to me. This looks like a BL nerf and possibly an archery one to boot. The change to evasion seems much too good to me.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 19 2006 8:37 AM EDT

Most Powerful Blow: 21,871,051
with x2000 arrows?

This is nuts, i hope the balance comes.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 19 2006 8:38 AM EDT

Can't hurt if they can't hit ;)

bartjan September 19 2006 9:06 AM EDT

For sale: firewood. Used to be known as an Axbow.
The first change means I hit hardly ever at all with my bow, despite the massive DX my tank has. The second change means that, if I equip a ranged weapon, I miss 2 or 3 hits with my melee weapon, each hit doing several times more damage than the total damage I do in ranged. Unequipping the xbow is a no-brainer.

PoisoN September 19 2006 9:09 AM EDT

>Removed dx penalty for shield + ranged weapon

Does this include power shields? Is the penalty reduced or removed if a melee weapon is equipped?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 19 2006 9:14 AM EDT

Bart, JW mentions earlier in the thread that AoI no longer confuses the Axbow. Even with the nerf to archery and BL I don't see that many tanks going for evasion.

BootyGod September 19 2006 9:17 AM EDT

I swear, if Jon made it rain candy on everyone someone would comaplain. Maybe you should just say thanks right now and complain in a week or two? The stuff isn't even about me but it still annoys me. As I recall, Jon ALSO made it possible to change your strategy for free.... so... umm... whats the problem again? Your old one didn't work? Changing it? No none of you would ever do that...

Okay, but seriously, thanks Jon :). I don't even use archery but I still like change. Oh well.

/me goes to experiment with EC and AMF combos.

QBOddBird September 19 2006 9:21 AM EDT

Evasion is now more effective during ranged combat: x4 during the first ranged round, x3 during then 2nd, and x2 during the last.

So is the Defensive DX increased as well, or just the -PTH?

QBRanger September 19 2006 9:25 AM EDT

OK, how does this happen:

Vs Freed and his massive elb, largest in the game:

Round 1 of missile:
My little Pony missed Prophecies

Round 2 of missile:
My little Pony shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [364879]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [92106]

Round 3 of missile:
My little Pony shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [68737]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [68737]
My little Pony hit Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [66380]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [66380]
My little Pony shot Prophecies with Platypus Phlegm [65027]
Cloudscape absorbs damage [65027]

I understand the miss in round 1, evasion level 56.

However, how does he do 350k damage in round 2, then only 66k in the next. Seems a bit off to be attributed to random element. Is there a boost that archery gives in round 2 to damage as well as to hit that is unknown?

BTW, Freed uses archery on his TOA tank.

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 9:28 AM EDT

I'm not seeing anything like that from the archers on my fightlist. That looks a bit buggy to me...heh, Jon broke archery...

AdminJonathan September 19 2006 9:29 AM EDT

"You can now use your ELBow in every melee round."

did you test this or are you just guessing? because that would be a bug.

bartjan September 19 2006 9:32 AM EDT

Borderliner, it's an observation I made from fighting my fightlist; I missed *a lot* in ranged battles, often doing no hits at all. I don't care that much which minion I hit in ranged, as long as I do hit something. With Evasion in ranged ruining my 1.44M DX, and no obvious counter for it, I doubt ranged is worth the 1M or so damage I could have done in that first melee round.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 9:58 AM EDT


""You can now use your ELBow in every melee round."

did you test this or are you just guessing? because that would be a bug."

Give me an Elbow and I'll test it. ;) Nah it was an assumption from archery not giving you more rounds now.

So Bows fire in all three ranged rounds as standard, and every other melee one?

I like it! Archers, you have to equip a melee weapon. Bye bye to round one melee. ;)

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 10:02 AM EDT

The Evasion is pretty amazing, I have to admit now. I was able to add back three guys I was losing to, and two other archers I would get a lot of draws with. That's with an evasion around 450K (78). My FB is still strong and I have more HP to boot to absorb extra AMF backlash.

As is very common with my "reactions", I turn 180 degrees after a time. We'll have to see what everything ends up being after free untrain is turned off, but so far, archers who can't afford massive pth are in trouble that first round (and I don't even have DBs yet...)

Overall this ends up being a FB mage buff, in a way. Evasion is now a more useful skill for mages, making tanks miss entirely is VERY powerful, and Fireball can dish out a lot of damage in just a couple rounds. We'll have to see how it all pans out.

I'm off to do all the research I can on stat levels and experience costs with this free untraining period!

QBRanger September 19 2006 10:04 AM EDT


Also remember you get a free round of FB in the 1st melee round. Unless they do not equip any missile weapon. So you may be even better off.

QBJohnnywas September 19 2006 10:04 AM EDT

See, it's a tank nerf!

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 10:42 AM EDT

Indeed, and I am even thinking of it as a buff to fewer-minion teams... I am thinking that because as a single minion it is easy for me to throw 500K level at something (like Evasion), especially with the free untraining. Finally being able to make my one huge minion hard to kill in ranged plays exactly to my stregnths and concentration of XP...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 10:44 AM EDT

I must admit, so far, I love these changes! :D

But we'll see.... ;)

QBOddBird September 19 2006 10:53 AM EDT

Yep, single minions got a *HUGE* boost with this, especially with the Explosive Shot change.

PirateKing September 19 2006 10:57 AM EDT

Hmmm.... methinks it would be nice to affix one of these explosive shots upon the point of my crossbow bolts. hint, hint...

QBBarzooMonkey September 19 2006 11:02 AM EDT

I'm thinking these are pretty balanced changes so far.

Yes, I can do 6 mil plus damage in ranged with my ToA archer alone now, but that's if I hit multiple times in all three rounds.

With players scrambling to train evasion, hitting that much is already getting harder and harder, and going from sometimes over a mil damage between the archer's BoTH & UC in the first melee round, down to 300-400k (at best) from just the UC, is a huge difference, and can result in draws & losses where before it was always wins...

So far, my observation is that these are excellent choice-forcing changes :)

QBRanger September 19 2006 11:50 AM EDT

I am still on the seeker thing is quite a bad thing for mages.

With the increased damage in missile, most CoC mages will not live to melee.

And with the use of defensive seekers, one can make a tank pretty much invulnerable to a CoC mage character.

All most tanks need is 2 hits to kill most mages now in missile with seekers.

But the retraining is letting a lot of those mages go the tank route if they want.

QBBarzooMonkey September 19 2006 11:54 AM EDT

I forgot about the seeker thing, and once again I agree with Ranger on it (Decay mages are in the same boat as CoC mages)...

Can it at least be random, so there's some chance of invisiblity to them?

QBRanger September 19 2006 12:21 PM EDT


Nymandus shot The Grid with A Vorpal Bow [1078500]

On a 100 AC enchanter backed by a 2.6M TOE

That's is one hit in missile with a x2525 elb.

Ouch, my head hurts looking at that.

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 1:55 PM EDT

On the other hand, I can beat Conundrum. That shouldn't shouldn't shouldn't be possible. He misses almost every time with a nice bow and large dexterity. That's kind of crazy.

AdminG Beee September 19 2006 2:20 PM EDT

Trying to figure that out and I can't Sut. Indeed, it is a bit of conundrum :)

QBOddBird September 19 2006 2:25 PM EDT

These changes just swing back and forth for you, don't they, sut?

AdminShade September 19 2006 2:29 PM EDT

So either you now have a huge ELB doing massive damage in 3 rounds (3 rounds right?)


you have an xbow and do a very very small damage in 2 rounds (2 rounds right?)


you have a sort of sling and do damage enough to hurt in 3 rounds


miss your first melee round doing damage with your tank


you equip no ranged weapon at all and hope to survive just to melee to be the huge tank you once were.


Sounds like a huge if not too huge _all_ xbow nerf to me... making all drains pretty impossible and also not having the damage because of high costs and low base damages without any compensation...

AdminG Beee September 19 2006 2:34 PM EDT

Still 11 days left...

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 2:39 PM EDT

BBQ, it's all good now. If I had focused on the Evasion change right away I wouldn't have whined a bit. The Evasion pretty much negates every other ranged changed that would hurt me, and since Ranged is my bread and butter, it's quite a change.

But the Evasion harkens back to what novice used to say about the Vorpal Blade...it is not THAT huge of an investment, and it negates sooooo much ranged NW it is hardly funny... When you miss, your effective NW drops to $0.00...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 19 2006 6:07 PM EDT

Well Sute, we could change the way Dex works! ;)

QBsutekh137 September 19 2006 10:09 PM EDT

I would still be all for that being one continuum!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 20 2006 5:00 AM EDT

There might be a bug with slings. You don't lose the first round of Melee when using a Sling (at least SoD) and a melee weapon.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 20 2006 5:24 AM EDT

not true, at least not for me...I'm missing round one with an SoD equipped

AdminShade September 20 2006 5:51 AM EDT

GL: Most likely your opponent also has a ranged and melee weapon and loses the first round of melee. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 20 2006 6:01 AM EDT

True! Johnny you muppet! :P

QBJohnnywas September 20 2006 6:12 AM EDT

ok it's me and my confused brain.. my themes at work are screwed - everything looks like the old wordpad theme - and it makes it difficult to see! I've just fought somebody who isn't a tank and yup. First round of melee missed lol

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 21 2006 6:34 AM EDT

Ex shot rarity decreased substantially.

Really? last time exploding shot spawned was 3 days ago.

TH3 C0113CT0R September 21 2006 7:15 AM EDT

I here that.

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] September 21 2006 7:08 PM EDT

Check the stores and not the auctions and you will find them :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 21 2006 7:14 PM EDT

Camping's back! :D Sefton is snapping up all those Ex Shots! :P Nice tip, I would have been just checking the auctions for them! :P

QBOddBird September 21 2006 7:22 PM EDT

That explains *SO* much.

Miandrital September 22 2006 12:24 AM EDT

So much for camping being eliminated...

AdminNightStrike September 22 2006 2:14 AM EDT

How did they wind up in the stores?

bartjan September 22 2006 2:34 AM EDT

"substantially", that's why.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 3:51 AM EDT

ow great now there is no way for the peeps who actually use exploding shot to get it, if they don't spawn in auctions.
They will be snatched by campers all the time great. I thought when jon made them less rare, that he raised the spawn rate in which they spawn in auctions.
Great. just great

bartjan September 22 2006 5:54 AM EDT

Henk, like most economies, CB's is a dynamic one. Why not wait until it has reached steady state before complaining about prices?

AdminShade September 22 2006 6:42 AM EDT

Also, the more they are bought and used, the more that will spawn and will be used. It will all even out some time.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 7:48 AM EDT

Bartjan im not complaining about the prices, in my post nothing says that. But it's typical that something like this happens and the supply of exp shot is now totally dependent on campers and, not like the arrows, you can't buy in auctions. And if the campers decide to put them in auctions it will be in large quantities otherwise auctions won't accept them. In the contrary to arrows are in the auctions often and in small quantities.

And you might say, but they spawn in the shop now! so much easier.
No as someone already stated they will be camped and only when they have enough then they decide to sell.

And bartjan, this economy isn't dynamic at all. This economy is pretty much fixed. With fixed prices for just about everything. For a real dynamic economy, the one that act one changes, the changes in this game are few and small. Unlike the changes in the real world which are drastic. (think about war, bombings, etc....). The only real change in prices in the past month are for the elb that shot frmo 1.2mil base to 2.5 mil base, but that's about it.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 22 2006 7:55 AM EDT

That was me! :D

But really, there's only two choices. Have them spawn in auctions, which would limit the supplt of them for everybody, and with the new changes, Ex Shots are very hot items.

Of have them spawn in the store.

Hopefully, spawning in the store, like normal ammo, the supply will out grow the damand. At the moment, they are too new, and everyone wants to get thier hands on them.

For the moment, maybe I should get myself the Google Toolbar. ;)

But I hope they aren't moved to spawn in the auction house...

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 8:07 AM EDT

GL makes a good point if they do spawn in stores hopefully the supply is greater then the demand. However with the rate they are spawning now, not rarity, it's like they act like elbs spawning in the store

bartjan September 22 2006 8:57 AM EDT

Henk, with the total number of ex shots being unaffected by campers, what else could you complain about but the price?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 22 2006 9:28 AM EDT

Bart, who is or isn't a camper now? ;)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 9:38 AM EDT

again im not complaining about the price. Im complaining about the supply. Not the price.
The market of CB is a suppliers market, thus supplier dictate price and supply.
The price i don't care more or less about , its more if you are using specialty ammo on a frequent base. You don't want to be depend solely on campers?

bartjan September 22 2006 9:41 AM EDT

campers do depend on you as well....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 9:45 AM EDT

Yes and no bartjan, yes the campers (suppliers) need someone to buy there stuff. No there will always be a demand for these goods. Unless another change comes along and destroys that market. (like ex/axbows)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 22 2006 9:48 AM EDT

If Ex Shots spawn in the stores now, do they class as speciality ammo any more? Or are they like rounded pebbles/iron shots?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 9:51 AM EDT

Good point. However as they don't spawn as frequent as rounded pebbles or as iron shot. Im still considering them as specialty ammo

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 22 2006 9:54 AM EDT

Sorry about the double post.

I wanted to add; to bad we can't see some kind of "a spawn log" for the store. If they actually spawn as frequent as rounded pebble/iron shot. And if they are camped away fast. Then that pretty much proofs my point.

QBJohnnywas September 22 2006 9:59 AM EDT

They've only spawned once today that I've seen.

You can check the store logs. Go to community then 'store purchase log'.

Ambidex September 22 2006 6:29 PM EDT

I still get a DX penalty when using a ranged weapon and shield....is this

Flamey September 22 2006 9:31 PM EDT

do you have a melee weapon equipped?

melee weapon and shield penalty still exists.

and make sure you have nothing else on, when you try it again.

Moddin September 27 2006 11:41 AM EDT

" If he has both ranged and melee weapons equipped, your minion will not attack during the first round of melee combat, while he readies his weapon"

Minions that dont have both equipped should attack in the first round.
This works fine if you have a melee weapon but if you have only a ranged
weapon you suffer the one round waiting period.

I dont know if this bug is already known or if this is by intention and i did not
see the rule.
So i hope it will be fixed or someone enlightens me ....

Maelstrom September 27 2006 11:49 AM EDT

I believe that if you only have a ranged weapon equipped, you only attack every other round in melee.

Since crossbows now attack every round, it seems like slings have lost one of their advantages. How about if you use a sling, you are able to attack in the first round of melee if you have a melee weapon? I mean, it should be pretty easy to just drop your sling on the ground and whip out your sword...

Tezmac September 27 2006 1:05 PM EDT

I hope Jon reads your post Maelstrom :O)

IndependenZ September 27 2006 1:15 PM EDT

It should also be pretty easy to drop your crossbow on the ground and whip out your sword.. or your Elven long bow, for that matter. The comparison doesn't seem right, but I see your point though Mael.

Maelstrom September 27 2006 1:34 PM EDT

Well, slings are basically a piece of leather, so you could drop them on the ground without them getting damaged.

On the other hand, I don't think you'd want to risk dropping an expensive, finely-crafted wooden bow on the ground. You'd probably carefully set it down.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 27 2006 2:24 PM EDT

Slings get Ex Shots. ;) Just up the spawn rate on them. :)

AdminShade September 27 2006 2:30 PM EDT

Moddin: if you only have a ranged weapon equipped you only fire in the odd rounds of melee. That's not a bug.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001uCw">Ranged changes</a>