Ga formula (in General)

Lans January 3 2007 12:35 AM EST

RAW DMG/GA level *0.6 - (0.125*AC + prot level/2)

Lumpy Koala January 3 2007 12:50 AM EST

amazing :P

Miandrital January 3 2007 12:53 AM EST

How did you come up with this?

AdminShade January 3 2007 4:23 AM EST

Indeed, some explanation will be very useful...

Flamey January 3 2007 5:32 AM EST

I tried twice, and my maths sucks. but I got negatives both times.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 3 2007 7:42 AM EST

GA only returns 60% when it's high enough versus the damage done. You'll need a cap on the GA Level, otherwise it'll nock things outta wack if you've got a GA level far in excess of the damage done to you. ;)

Flamey January 3 2007 7:43 AM EST

so that's what happened to me? My GA is like 350k and that blow was only 120k.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 3 2007 8:12 AM EST

Yup. Limit your GA Level to 120K and it will return 60%.

But, I'm not sure if it's GA = Damage done for 60%, or something like GA = 2 * Damage done for 60%... :/

Xenko January 3 2007 9:22 AM EST

That is nice find Lans. I would also like to get some more information on how you derived that relationship.

I am also interested in that last section of your equation: prot level/2
I always thought protection affected things based on the effect and not on the level (hence why it still works at level 0 with an effect of 4). Maybe this is an exception, I don't know.

I guess this could use some investigation during free retraining time whenever it happens to start.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 3 2007 10:09 AM EST

It also does not include the linear reduction per point that AC gives either.
There are penty of flaws in the equation without even needing to now how it was derived.
It is a good try and looks a pretty good formula but it still needs some work.

QBRanger January 3 2007 11:25 AM EST

RAW DMG/GA level *0.6 - (0.125*AC + prot level/2)

I seem to see where AC is figured into the equation. Or perhaps I am blind?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 3 2007 11:27 AM EST

GA using raw damage seems flawed to theoretically you could have a wall taking nearly no damage from blows, but returning full damage?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 3 2007 11:38 AM EST

Ranger, the linear reduction, not the percentage reduction.
Each point of AC gives a linear reduction of I think we found around 200, this wont cause a huge difference at higher levels but it still means calculated figures wont be the same as actual figures.

Miandrital January 3 2007 11:55 AM EST

((((GA Level * 2.5) / Raw Damage) * Actual Damage) *.6) - (Reduction from Endurance + Reduction from Protection + Reduction from AC) = GA Damage

I think this is a much more accurate equation. It assumes you need your GA to be 2.5x the raw damage and it takes into account that a wall will not take much damage, thereby not returning much damage either.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 3 2007 1:23 PM EST

Oh yeah. ;) Didn't catch this was based on raw damage. GA return should be based on actual damage taken, after all reductions.

Lans January 3 2007 5:07 PM EST

I am sry i wrote this quite late yesterday

1 only ench bonus on AC work vs GA.Try its before arguing with me.
2 Endurance reduce dmg taken not GA eff like AC and prot
3 AC and prot reduce GA effectiness not the dmg backfire by GA

Its should be read as follow GA level/raw dmg (cap at 1) * 0.6 - ((AC*0.125 + prot/2)/100)

That will give you the GA eff


Attacker deal 100K raw
Defender have 200 AC (100 point from ench ) + prot 10
Defender have GA of 90K
Actual dmg taken is 100K*0.67*0.9 = 60K

Ga eff = 90K/100K * .6 - ((0.125 * 100 + 10/2)/100)= 0.365

60K* 0.365= 20 K or so

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 3 2007 6:21 PM EST


"1 only ench bonus on AC work vs GA.Try its before arguing with me."

That's not correct. GA returns the same type of damage you are hit with.

If you are hit by magical damage, it returns magical damage and only '+' AC has effect.

If you are hit by a physical attack, you return physical damage and all AC has effect.

And I really think you should take damage done into account, and not raw damage, when working out GA effect.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 3 2007 7:28 PM EST

I agree with GL, you have proven how bad your equation is in your last post.
A 90k GA vs. an attack that hits you for only 60k will return much more than 20k, even against 100AC and a prot of 10 (assuming prot actually is a percentage reduction).

TheHatchetman January 3 2007 8:48 PM EST

quick question... with damage and other factors being random, any of this matters how? Or is it just the quest to know?

Flamey January 3 2007 8:49 PM EST

how do you figure out raw damage?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 3 2007 8:51 PM EST

Hatchet, when trying to maximize your GA, you use the biggest hit you take as the optimum level, this allows you to comfortably cover all hits you will take and as soon as the largest hit gets bigger, you further increase the GA.
If this equation was actually right, you would then be able to cacluclate almost exactly how much you would return.

Lans January 4 2007 5:28 AM EST

Let make some test

Test setup

Attacker my tank lans with a VB
Defender someone with a GA high enough Yukk and Zacharia Andrew Pain

Attacker without AC and prot

Lans grazed Xevious [53807]
Xevious's Guardian Angel smote Lans (32284)

32284/53807 = 0.5999999 or if you like 60% everything normal

Attacker with A Steel Brigandine [18] (+27) total AC 45

Lans scratched Xevious [47968]
Xevious's Guardian Angel smote Lans (27050)

27050/47968= 0.5639

According to my formula 1 * 0.6 -((0.125*27 + 0/2)/100) *47968 = 27161

Attacker with A Mithril Cuirass [35] (+26) total AC AC: 61

Lans grazed Xevious [40680]
Xevious's Guardian Angel smote Lans (23102)

23102/40680 = 0.5678

According to my formula 1*0.6 - (0.125*26 + 0/2)/100) *40680 = 23085.9

Attacker with A Mithril Cuirass [35] (+45) Total AC 80

Lans scratched Xevious [38221]
Xevious's Guardian Angel smote Lans (20603)

20603/38221 = 0.539

According to my formula 1*0.6 - ((0.125*45 + 0/2)/100) * 38221 = 20782

As you see the steel brig and the MC have about the same + but not the same base but the reduction is within the 0.00125 margin.

Attacker with MC +45 + prot 18

Lans carved into Gestillter Hund [58124]
Gestillter Hund's Guardian Angel smote Lans (25770)

25770/58124 = 0.4433...

According to my formula 1*0.6 - (0.125*45 + 18/2)/100)* 58124 = 26373

Please note that rounding as been made on the AC reduction and IF!!!! STR reduction is applying its hard to calculate

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 4 2007 7:26 AM EST

Lans, from the Train - Spell and Skill description page.

"GA retaliates with a percentage of all damage inflicted on its targets by opposing Minions. GA damage is reduced by AC; GA damage type is the same as that for which GA is retaliating."

You were using a VB. You were getting physical damage returned to you. Which is reduced by your full AC and whatever small part STR plays. ;)

Plus, in the last example, a MgS provides no AC from it's '+'.

The best way to test this formula would be to use Decay (Fixed Damage and Magical).
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