Another new item: Helm of Clearsight (in Changelog)


Monkeyboy January 11 2007 12:29 AM EST

Didn't see a post on this one...

Helm of Clearsight: -2% Magic; Affords extra attack in first round of ranged.

TheHatchetman January 11 2007 12:32 AM EST

:'-(

Maelstrom January 11 2007 12:37 AM EST

Yeah yeah, as soon as I decide to start selling my stuff, Jon creates the perfect item for my archer... :(

Xiaz on Hiatus January 11 2007 12:41 AM EST

Smashing!

Karn [Hell Blenders] January 11 2007 12:46 AM EST

I am guessing this item might be a supporter item since it does not spawn.

Lochnivar January 11 2007 12:50 AM EST

Extra attack in first round of ranged. Does that include mages too?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 3:34 AM EST

How does this work? If you are using a Ranged weapon, you get an extra attack in round 1?

Same for CoC/FB/MM/Decay?

Or is CoC/Decay not effected? If CoC and Decay are effected, are Melee weapons?

:/

Flamey January 11 2007 3:52 AM EST

It's for ranged specifically I think.


so, no, CoC/Decay don't get affect.

nor, does melee.

so it gives MM/FB 4 hits before CoC, great that CoC got a boost, would of been a lot of booing.

and gives Tanks with a bow another hit, but I think I'm better off with my HoE, its only good for archery tanks.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 4:03 AM EST

Tanks with Ranged weapons, do they get an additional hit, or an additional attack round?

Flamey January 11 2007 4:04 AM EST

It'd have to be hit.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 4:14 AM EST

I assume that Junction works with the HoC, and therefore a HF would be able to benefit from an extra ranged attack in the first round of ranged combat?

Flamey January 11 2007 4:37 AM EST

same as FF/SF :P

HF isn't THAT awesome.

spell check sucks :)

Adminedyit January 11 2007 5:26 AM EST

figured this would look better in the changelog :)

QBRanger January 11 2007 8:44 AM EST

Certainly a nice mage item.

Not so great for tanks unless your using archery and perhaps seekers.

Wasp [Demon Forging] January 11 2007 8:46 AM EST

There should be a nice dex penalty on it : )

Hyrule Castle January 11 2007 9:32 AM EST

how is that a nice mage item...-2% magic... :( its a dang archer helm again :P

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] January 11 2007 9:52 AM EST

Hyrule,

These in the first round [503722] & [723202] instead of [503722] alone, and a bigger base AC. I'll take 98% efficacy for that kind of damage and better protection. No ammo required.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 10:10 AM EST

Imagine a MM Mage, with a HoC and a SF.

Your MM hits for [xxxx]
Your MM hits for [xxxx]
Your Familiars MM hits for [xxxx]
Your Familiars MM hits for [xxxx]

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 10:14 AM EST

Question: Since this is the first time a single minion (or familiar) can shoot twice in one round, do both shots hit the same target, or can an MM mage kill two opposing minions in one round. In other words, does targeting work like physical attack targeting or can two shots hit two different opposing minions/familiars?

And where are people seeing this is a supporter item, and where are people getting theirs? Can I send Jonathan the standard $6 and get one?

QBRanger January 11 2007 10:16 AM EST

Yes, send Jon 6 bucks to get one.

I would think that it is like a melee or missile weapon, targets the same minion during the same round. But that is my suspicion.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] January 11 2007 10:23 AM EST

Does this help Sut?

Repairman Jack struck deep into Aynsley Dunbar with Heartbreaker [44775]
Repairman Jack cries "All fixed!!"
Repairman Jack skewered Aynsley Dunbar with Heartbreaker [37336]
Repairman Jack skewered Aynsley Dunbar with Heartbreaker [48832]
Repairman Jack cries "All fixed!!"

In the case of the elbow, I kill him with my free shot, get a battle cry, then kill him again for good measure with another battle cry with my normal two shots per round. I will assume MM would follow a similar pattern.

Would LOVE to see a retarget here. I think it makes the helm a little less useful without the retarget. Most of my elbow shots in the first round kill first strike. I mean, most teams WANT you to shoot the worthless minions first and try to force you to do that. Perhaps a suggestion would be to stick the extra attack in there random? I know the idea was to not let the archer die before using his helm, so first round and such (or I believe that to be why I should say), but unless you are fighting one or two minion teams, that first shot is a lot less important as the second or third round shots.

Talion January 11 2007 10:25 AM EST

So this is yet another reason not to choose CoC. With this helmet, FB is WAY WAY more powerful than CoC.

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 10:27 AM EST

I don't think it should retarget, since that would be kind of a huge advantage to a MM/SF team... Potentially killing an entire opponent in one round? Even if the opponent has four minions/familiars?

Mages need to feel the same pain as tanks and only get the one target per round. Of course, that doesn't really effect FB. *smile*

Wasp [Demon Forging] January 11 2007 10:28 AM EST

I tried CoC earlier, It's actually far superior in strength to FB, if you can make it to melee.

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 10:30 AM EST

MM appears to retarget. Against Forge Hog:

Joe takes damage from his own Magic missile (44953)!
Joe's Magic missile hit Fire [976537]
Joe takes damage from his own Magic missile (44953)!
Joe's Magic missile hit Tongs [756333]
Joe cries "Hubbell Rules!"
Dave's familiar takes damage from his own Magic missile (35679)!
Dave's familiar's Magic missile hit Anvil [372498]

R.I.P. Tongs, Fire

Joe killed Fire and Tongs with a 1-2 punch, and then the SF starts working on Anvil, all in one round. If I put an HoC and Junction on Dave, I assume I could take out three minions in just one round. Wow.

QBJohnnywas January 11 2007 10:34 AM EST

Heh Seft I had the same thought about it. It's probably worth more overall to wear a HoE if you're an archer/tank and then get more strength (therefore more damage anyway) overall. If you're hitting a worthless enchanter three times already, what's the point of an extra strike.

It's a much different story where FB is concerned however...

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 10:40 AM EST

And here is the HoC in action with an enchanter/SF, base Junction:

Joe's Magic missile hit Drifter [992972]
Joe cries "Hubbell Rules!"
Dave's familiar Magic missile hit Trooper [451247]
Dave's familiar Magic missile hit Trooper [359940]

R.I.P. Trooper, Drifter

That is _base_ junction, folks. My SF gets two hits by simply training one base stat (317 experience) and spending 600K on a supporter item.

All with multi-targeting!

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 10:43 AM EST

Of course, the only downside there is that my enchanter can't be wearing his Corn... So, there is _some_ choice to be had. Choice would be even harder if Junction required some higher training... Losing a 14-16% boost on an enchantment (plus the slight loss from wearing the HoC itself) is quite worth it for an extra familiar shot in Round One, but that might not be the case for everyone...

QBJohnnywas January 11 2007 10:43 AM EST

Oh dear, it's the SoD all over again....;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 10:51 AM EST

Hmmm... I did originally think the extra attack was allowed to change target. I've looked again and that doesn't seem to be the case. :)

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 11:04 AM EST

It is still changing targets, I assure you. I just fought Forge Hog again, and I killed two targets with Joe's dual MMs in round one.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 11 2007 11:11 AM EST

Wow.

Then Imagine a MM MAge with a SF and one or two HoC. If you have a large enough MM to kill a minion in one hit, you could take out a four minion team in the first round...

SoD + Ex Shot indeed Johnny! ;)

AdminJonathan January 11 2007 11:20 AM EST

clearsight and invisibility now only have a {junction effect} chance of transferring to familiar.

So if your junction is 0.1, you have a 10% chance. If it is 1.0, it always transfers.

QBRanger January 11 2007 11:30 AM EST

Now that is a great change!!!


QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 12:38 PM EST

I just rattled off 5/5 double MMs on my SF -- not bad for a junction with effect 0.00. Jonathan, I think your chance-for-effect is not working right...

AdminJonathan January 11 2007 12:43 PM EST

fixed

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 12:45 PM EST

Now I am getting this:

Dave's familiar takes damage from his own Magic missile (0)!
Dave's familiar's Magic missile hit Failsafe for no damage

Every time. You killed my SF! *smile*

Tezmac January 11 2007 12:48 PM EST

Wait for it....waaaaait for it...
(I always laugh a bit when Jon announces "Fixed better")

AdminJonathan January 11 2007 12:52 PM EST

fixed better :)

QBsutekh137 January 11 2007 12:54 PM EST

Yeah, looks to be working right. Dang, I guess I will stick with my Corn after all! I can't afford a 400K level dilution on my E. Good change, Jonathan... *smile* The choice is tough now, so hooray for balance!

TheHatchetman January 12 2007 7:46 AM EST

Tezmac, I was just talking about that in chat the other day. :)

Relic January 12 2007 9:58 AM EST

Jonathan, can you please clarify if the HoCs is supposed to switch targets (if applicable) in the first round of ranged for mages and tanks? I would like to get the official word and not the peanut gallery opinion of whether it should or shouldn't (although personally I would like to see it the same for both) =).

If I read it at face value "Affords extra attack in first round of ranged." then it should switch targeting for anyone getting the extra attack, regardless of strategy, i.e. Bows, Slings, xBows, DD Ranged, taking off your shoe and throwing it at your opponent.....you get the idea.

QBJohnnywas January 12 2007 10:01 AM EST

I'm with Glory on this; because if it is supposed to offer a switch in target regardless of the wearer, then I want it to do that and I want one!!

If it's only mages, then it's no use to me, and if it's a bug, let us know.

Relic January 12 2007 8:47 PM EST

Jonathan? A little please...

AdminJonathan January 12 2007 9:37 PM EST

fixed HoC to switch targets for physical attacks

QBRanger January 12 2007 9:40 PM EST

Wow,
,
That is something entirely new in CBland.,
,
Retargetting!!

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] January 12 2007 9:45 PM EST

I am still targetting the same minion round one after he dies with archery and my elbow

Flamey January 12 2007 9:51 PM EST

doesn't change anything for meh.

Relic January 12 2007 10:02 PM EST

woot! i need to check this out :)

Relic January 12 2007 10:04 PM EST

I am still seeing the same results as before. My archer does not switch targets after one dies.

QBsutekh137 January 12 2007 10:27 PM EST

Please please, make MM NOT retarget... So much for the HoC being slightly better for mages. *sigh* Thought mages might have finally caught a break this time...

Hyrule Castle January 13 2007 12:33 AM EST

how'd we catch a break, the one thing we had going for us is gone... *sniffle*

/me sees his hopes being shot down

Relic January 13 2007 2:05 AM EST

Jonathan must be working on this still because it is still broken. :(

Mikel January 13 2007 3:09 AM EST

yep, I just tested it and it's still broken.

Mikel January 13 2007 3:13 AM EST

actually it's switching targets for MM....

Flamey January 13 2007 4:25 AM EST



Mikel, 3:13 AM EST
actually it's switching targets for MM....


it always did.

and, it wasn't broken, it was just changed, I believe.

QBJohnnywas January 13 2007 9:24 AM EST

Just tested this, it's not changing targets for me with my tank. And while it's nice to see six hits in a single round, it's a waste of ammo hitting a 20 HP enchanter six times lol....

QBJohnnywas January 13 2007 9:31 AM EST

All the following in round 1:


Diabolik skewered Food [687986]
Food's Guardian Angel smote Diabolik (36458)
Diabolik skewered Food [706305]
Diabolik cries "It's tank jazz baby!!"
Diabolik skewered Food [562008]
Diabolik skewered Food [559860]
Diabolik cries "It's tank jazz baby!!"

Mikel January 13 2007 3:17 PM EST

Tarzan skewered Trooper with The Bow of Mikel [1854073]
Tarzan skewered Trooper with The Bow of Mikel [1946703]
Tarzan skewered Trooper with The Bow of Mikel [2042739]
Tarzan cries "OYOYOYOIYOIYOOOOOO!"
Tarzan skewered Prowler with The Bow of Mikel [1544394]
Tarzan skewered Prowler with The Bow of Mikel [1856674]
Tarzan skewered Prowler with The Bow of Mikel [1779324]
Tarzan skewered Prowler with The Bow of Mikel [1628287]
Tarzan cries "OYOYOYOIYOIYOOOOOO!"

Re-targeting works with archery now.

Relic January 13 2007 4:06 PM EST

I was just about to post the fix too, nice work Jonathan. :)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 13 2007 4:48 PM EST

The retargetting plays havoc on an axbow versus Mage teams.
Against Magic Missiles R Us I start off by attacking Kitchen Sink but switch to attacking Mommy before Kitchen Sink has died which then allows KS's PL to kick in.

Relic January 13 2007 4:52 PM EST

One reason Axbows were not designed to compete against mage teams.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 13 2007 5:20 PM EST

Admittedly they aren't designed to be used against them but I'm not aiming at killing specific teams so I am going to fight both kinds at some point and this really gives the axbow yet another kick in the goolies.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 13 2007 8:44 PM EST

AXbows not taking Evasions defensive DEX into account for targeting really kills them.

Vicious Cat January 14 2007 8:42 AM EST

Zoglog: Try picking on someone your own PR :-P

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] January 14 2007 9:16 AM EST

I would but my strategy can't compete with them until I can afford to expand it and get the equipment I need ;)
I'm adamant I can make the JKF work with my strategy but not until I can move on from being a single tank that is practically naked :P
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