PR Weight of HoC (in General)

miteke [Superheros] January 15 2007 11:00 AM EST

Why does the Helm of Clear Sight have a PR weight of .2? Shouldn't it have a weight of .1 like other armors whose + do not add to stats? It certainly discourages me from upping the +'s on it.

Shooto January 15 2007 4:20 PM EST

Then don't. I think its the most powerful item in the game as it is.

AdminShade January 15 2007 5:42 PM EST

If Armor Class isn't a factor in your design, let it be base :)

Flamey January 15 2007 7:28 PM EST

"Then don't. I think its the most powerful item in the game as it is."

I wouldn't go that far, at all. HoE > HoC in many cases.

QBRanger January 15 2007 7:31 PM EST

For a mage, the HoC is quite uber.

For a archer, the HoC is quite uber.

For a generic tank, the HoC is quite...useless.

Halcyon January 15 2007 8:53 PM EST

HoC, can be used for any attacking char, simple enough. So, IMO, most powerfull, yes

Tenchi Muyo January 15 2007 10:24 PM EST

I find no reason to upgrade the HoC really. Who needs armor when my SoD is clearing 4 minion teams in one round ^_^. <3 Getting 6 explosive shots in one round.

miteke [Superheros] January 18 2007 11:06 PM EST

You guys are TOTALLY missing the point. The awesome ability to give extra attacks is divorced from the +. The + is given a PR weight of .2 because of the awesome ability. It does not make sense. If I could go back, I'd return my HoC to base because a base HoC is more valuable than a pumped one because of the high PR weight.

It gets back to the original problem that an item should not have it's PR bonus calculated strictly based on value or +s. Items should have a PR bonus equation that consists of the following values:

A constant PR bonus: Adds directly to PR regardless of the minion. This is how familiars are done.
A minion relative PR bonus: Adds some fraction of the minions PR regardless of additional enchantments. This is the type of bonus a HoC should have
A + relative bonus: Adds some fraction of the minions PR based on +s
An x relative bonus: Adds some fraction of the minions PR based on weapon damage bonus. This is currently not being done and instead weapon allowances are used. The weapon allowances are working fine so I would not rush to implement this one.
A character relative bonus: Adds some fraction of the characters PR. This would be the type of bonus if an item, say, gave a bonus to all minions in a team. I can;t think of any item that currently fits the bill though. If tatoos were done differently a ToE might fit here.

Duke January 18 2007 11:28 PM EST

I agree with Miteke R weight should be at 0.1.

QBOddBird January 18 2007 11:33 PM EST

Why should it have a lower PR weight? Those + are valuable, as it is the only option for an AC helm for mages...

QBRanger January 19 2007 4:24 AM EST

Then perhaps it should be a fixed AC with a fixed PR addition like the AoI as others including Duke suggest.

Like 5 + 10 AC.

Duke January 19 2007 4:26 AM EST

1 HOC should have a fix AC and PR weight

2 right now a base HoC give 0 PR and will give the extra attack and each point of AC will cost twice the PR compare to a MCM or plain leathers boots.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2007 5:58 AM EST

Could not agree with miteke more.

It's not just armour with specials, it's weapons as well.

Granted, weapons specials are based on how large the weapon is itself, where as the size of the HoC bears no relevance, but the principle is the same.

The same could also be said about the TSA, as it's regen isn't based on '+'. If you're using it only for it's regen, and don't care about the +STR, then you could quite easily leave it base.

AdminShade January 19 2007 6:54 AM EST

How much PR would it actually differ when having it at 0.2 or 0.1?

miteke [Superheros] January 19 2007 7:57 AM EST

That's a good point Shade, If you have a +10 helm, that's an extra 1% to your Minions PR over what it would be if it were only a .1 PR. It's not going to make or break you. So none of us are forming a mob anywhere about this. But it's the principle of the thing. I like my game rules to make sense and I think Jon does too. One by one over the years he has address just such issues as this, and it is by this forum that we make our cases for change.
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