Junction 1.00 transfers DD penalties (in General)

Testing through AMF backlash confirms. I just want confirmation that this is proper behavior. If not, then its a bug to be fixed.

What DD penalties are you typing about?

A bit more explanation with examples would be advised.

DD penalties from armor. I think this is intentional, you get both the perks and the downsides ;)

At 1.00, aren't you supposed to get no downsides?

That is what the wiki says at least.

Exactly. at 1.00 you get 100% of the junction effect. Thus 100% penalty from items also.

According to Jon's changelog post:

Junction transfers both positive and negative effects (such as armor dx penalties) but as junction gets higher it can block out the negative. At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect. Junction operates on the aggregate of a given effect, so if you have a TSA equipped as well as EG, you won't get 0% of the TSA penalty and 150% of the EG bonus; first the bonus and penalty get added, THEN junction is applied.

So I assume this is a bug.

so what u mean as well that u can have a wall equipped with high AC armour with a JKF equipped and the JKF will have the AC ad no DX/ST penalties if junction is trained at 1.00

Yes Spawn of Duck Knee, the JKF takes no DX penalty. Currently my SF has no DX penalties. However, it is hard to make a wall without the most essential wall item, the body armor. On top of that you also lose the cloak slot. Furthermore, you can't mix it with a power shield, like the Mage Shield, which would greatly benefit the JKF.

As for the DD penalties, yes the ones from heavy armor. However, I thought this was obvious since there are no other DD penalties.

As for confirmation, I really need to hear from the guy who's opinion is the only one that matters. Either directly, or quoted from another post.

are u referring to PM lol Also did u mean that DD penalties do apply?

I am positive that the Direct Damage (DD) penalties _do_ apply, but I'm not sure they _should_ apply. I had assumed that the DD penalties behaved like the DX penalties. Apparently, this is currently not the case.

This maybe a silly question but I assume you have the Alatars Gloves unequipped when you tested this.

Equipping CML's in this case would reduce your familiars DD level in this case since Junction works on the aggregate bonus to DD.

Yes, I've had them unequiped when testing. Even so, with them on I have a 3% DD penalty. I'm only wearing the AGs because the penalty isn't being cancelled out by a complete junction. Otherwise, I might be wearing a different set of gloves.

should be fixed

Someone cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (1.00)
Someone cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.69)

It now seems that my SF's DD level is 0, even with the AGs on. My SF does zero damage.

Oh, that is why I am doing 0 damage :) Makes for interesting battle outcomes though, lol.

Weird, my FF at junction 1.00 is still working fine...

Yeah, nows a good time to target Junctioned DD Familiar teams. All of them are now just nearly-worthless meat shields.

YousaboutobeJUNKd's familiar's Magic missile hit Reroute to remain [178376]

mine is just fine, sigh, familiar's isnt in dictionary either, lol

Huh, and I just attacked someone who's SF is perfectly fine O_o

We are being targetted I say!

Found out that aside from having a 1.00 Junction, you also need to be wearing gear that nets a negative DD penalty after figuring in the AG bonus. Bringing you DD back to even or above should make it work properly.

sutekh, you didn't notice a problem because you don't use enough gear that would decrease your FF's Fireball level to below normal.

In other words, this bug only affects those that would have been affected by the intended change.

sutekh, if you and smallpau1 removed your AGs, you would easily see what we are talking about due to your HoC's -2% DD penalty.

fixed better

It needs to be fixed even better then that. I'll be back with specifics, but even sutekh should be able to notice a problem now.

Sure do:

Hubbell Man's familiar Fireball hit The Showgirl [1607], Jesun [1868], Kano [330], Mrs. County, eventually [955]

Dix can beat me again! You just can't keep Dixie Cousins down! *smile*

I even still have my AGs on, and my damage on the FF is for crap... Can't even clean up the riff-raff that have a few thousand HP on them...

Cloudscape cast Antimagic Field on Hubbell Man's familiar (0.88)

Yes something is not right. Should cast for about .30.

okay, I think I got the "/ 100" in the right spot this time :)

Ah, that's what is going on, just massive AMF retaliation -- that helps to know who I can still fight on my fightlist now. Thanks! *smile*

Yeah, looks better now...

I mean, yeah, I wanted a "poison pill" for my FF, but that was ridiculous! *grin*

My IF's base MM should be roughly 184,786, the Junction minion's base MM is 89,321.

When my IF is not assigned to my Junction minion
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Unbirthday's familiar (0.11)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with no gear
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.11)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with just AGs (+11% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.47)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.16)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with just DD penalty gear (-14% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.95)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.20)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with all gear equiped (-3% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.95)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

As you can see, there is still a major issue. Assuming the code is working, the last two examples should list my the AMF backlash as 0.11, but instead the backlash percentage is greatly above that. I'm also doing damage equal to a highly gimped MM.

I'll now confirm that these results are still valid following the third fix.

I confirm that the Junctioned DD penalties are now fixed best. Thanks a lot Jon.

I just took my AGs off to test, but I am out of BA and no more to buy for the day, sorry... :\

Ah, sorry, just saw your second response after third fix, Vestax (we need soft-patch notation for these fixes... *smile*). I won't worry about further testing, unless of course Bast becomes able to beat me again. *smile*