Junction 1.00 transfers DD penalties (in General)

[T]Vestax March 11 2007 4:33 PM EDT

Testing through AMF backlash confirms. I just want confirmation that this is proper behavior. If not, then its a bug to be fixed.

QBRanger March 11 2007 4:37 PM EDT

What DD penalties are you typing about?

A bit more explanation with examples would be advised.

AdminShade March 11 2007 4:58 PM EDT

DD penalties from armor. I think this is intentional, you get both the perks and the downsides ;)

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] March 11 2007 5:00 PM EDT

At 1.00, aren't you supposed to get no downsides?

That is what the wiki says at least.

AdminLamuness March 11 2007 5:42 PM EDT

Exactly. at 1.00 you get 100% of the junction effect. Thus 100% penalty from items also.

Miandrital March 11 2007 7:03 PM EDT

According to Jon's changelog post:

Junction transfers both positive and negative effects (such as armor dx penalties) but as junction gets higher it can block out the negative. At 1.0 you get 100% of the positive effect for most things, and 150% for ST and DX. At 1.0 you get 0% of the negative effect. Junction operates on the aggregate of a given effect, so if you have a TSA equipped as well as EG, you won't get 0% of the TSA penalty and 150% of the EG bonus; first the bonus and penalty get added, THEN junction is applied.

So I assume this is a bug.

Popsicle Man Supreme March 12 2007 3:42 AM EDT

so what u mean as well that u can have a wall equipped with high AC armour with a JKF equipped and the JKF will have the AC ad no DX/ST penalties if junction is trained at 1.00

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 4:54 AM EDT

Yes Spawn of Duck Knee, the JKF takes no DX penalty. Currently my SF has no DX penalties. However, it is hard to make a wall without the most essential wall item, the body armor. On top of that you also lose the cloak slot. Furthermore, you can't mix it with a power shield, like the Mage Shield, which would greatly benefit the JKF.

As for the DD penalties, yes the ones from heavy armor. However, I thought this was obvious since there are no other DD penalties.

As for confirmation, I really need to hear from the guy who's opinion is the only one that matters. Either directly, or quoted from another post.

Popsicle Man Supreme March 12 2007 5:02 AM EDT

are u referring to PM lol Also did u mean that DD penalties do apply?

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 5:14 AM EDT

I am positive that the Direct Damage (DD) penalties _do_ apply, but I'm not sure they _should_ apply. I had assumed that the DD penalties behaved like the DX penalties. Apparently, this is currently not the case.

Sacredpeanut March 12 2007 6:30 AM EDT

This maybe a silly question but I assume you have the Alatars Gloves unequipped when you tested this.

Equipping CML's in this case would reduce your familiars DD level in this case since Junction works on the aggregate bonus to DD.

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 1:47 PM EDT

Yes, I've had them unequiped when testing. Even so, with them on I have a 3% DD penalty. I'm only wearing the AGs because the penalty isn't being cancelled out by a complete junction. Otherwise, I might be wearing a different set of gloves.

AdminJonathan March 12 2007 1:53 PM EDT

should be fixed

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 2:10 PM EDT

Someone cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (1.00)
Someone cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.69)

It now seems that my SF's DD level is 0, even with the AGs on. My SF does zero damage.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] March 12 2007 2:55 PM EDT

Oh, that is why I am doing 0 damage :) Makes for interesting battle outcomes though, lol.

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 2:57 PM EDT

Weird, my FF at junction 1.00 is still working fine...

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 2:59 PM EDT

Yeah, nows a good time to target Junctioned DD Familiar teams. All of them are now just nearly-worthless meat shields.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] March 12 2007 3:04 PM EDT

YousaboutobeJUNKd's familiar's Magic missile hit Reroute to remain [178376]

mine is just fine, sigh, familiar's isnt in dictionary either, lol

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] March 12 2007 3:05 PM EDT

Huh, and I just attacked someone who's SF is perfectly fine O_o

We are being targetted I say!

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 3:05 PM EDT

Found out that aside from having a 1.00 Junction, you also need to be wearing gear that nets a negative DD penalty after figuring in the AG bonus. Bringing you DD back to even or above should make it work properly.

sutekh, you didn't notice a problem because you don't use enough gear that would decrease your FF's Fireball level to below normal.

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 3:13 PM EDT

In other words, this bug only affects those that would have been affected by the intended change.

sutekh, if you and smallpau1 removed your AGs, you would easily see what we are talking about due to your HoC's -2% DD penalty.

AdminJonathan March 12 2007 4:40 PM EDT

fixed better

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 4:45 PM EDT

It needs to be fixed even better then that. I'll be back with specifics, but even sutekh should be able to notice a problem now.

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 4:50 PM EDT

Sure do:

Hubbell Man's familiar Fireball hit The Showgirl [1607], Jesun [1868], Kano [330], Mrs. County, eventually [955]

Dix can beat me again! You just can't keep Dixie Cousins down! *smile*

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 4:52 PM EDT

I even still have my AGs on, and my damage on the FF is for crap... Can't even clean up the riff-raff that have a few thousand HP on them...

QBRanger March 12 2007 4:54 PM EDT

Cloudscape cast Antimagic Field on Hubbell Man's familiar (0.88)

Yes something is not right. Should cast for about .30.

AdminJonathan March 12 2007 4:57 PM EDT

okay, I think I got the "/ 100" in the right spot this time :)

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 4:58 PM EDT

Ah, that's what is going on, just massive AMF retaliation -- that helps to know who I can still fight on my fightlist now. Thanks! *smile*

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 4:59 PM EDT

Yeah, looks better now...

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 5:00 PM EDT

I mean, yeah, I wanted a "poison pill" for my FF, but that was ridiculous! *grin*

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 5:01 PM EDT

My IF's base MM should be roughly 184,786, the Junction minion's base MM is 89,321.

When my IF is not assigned to my Junction minion
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Unbirthday's familiar (0.11)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with no gear
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.11)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with just AGs (+11% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.47)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.16)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with just DD penalty gear (-14% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.95)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.20)

When my IF is assigned to the Junction minion with all gear equiped (-3% DD)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading's familiar (0.95)
Ubutek cast Antimagic Field on Beheading (0.18)

As you can see, there is still a major issue. Assuming the code is working, the last two examples should list my the AMF backlash as 0.11, but instead the backlash percentage is greatly above that. I'm also doing damage equal to a highly gimped MM.

I'll now confirm that these results are still valid following the third fix.

[T]Vestax March 12 2007 5:03 PM EDT

I confirm that the Junctioned DD penalties are now fixed best. Thanks a lot Jon.

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 5:03 PM EDT

I just took my AGs off to test, but I am out of BA and no more to buy for the day, sorry... :\

QBsutekh137 March 12 2007 5:05 PM EDT

Ah, sorry, just saw your second response after third fix, Vestax (we need soft-patch notation for these fixes... *smile*). I won't worry about further testing, unless of course Bast becomes able to beat me again. *smile*
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