Added Mageseeker (bow); removed Slayer and Seeker ammo (in Changelog)
The mageseeker is like a compound bow w/ 40% cheaper upgrade costs and mage-seeking ability. It will spawn normally.
I'll put some in auctions for people to try out, and for one day I'll also send one (base) to anyone who sends a axbow, exbow, or elb to Mr. Chairman. (This offer is now closed.)
Strange change. Very interesting.
Much easier for ammo to come by, now.
June 1 2007 1:14 PM EDT
in stores? all mine!
June 1 2007 1:17 PM EDT
what does that mean? and what are the base stats? like nw, [#] ?
June 1 2007 1:18 PM EDT
Hmm... so far none exist :)
June 1 2007 1:21 PM EDT
yeah, but that question is addressed towards jon :)
I'm guessing there's a fat chance of this happening, but will I receive compensation of any sort for just recently naming a slayer bolt?
Also, I understand why seeker ammo was removed. Why slayer ammo?
Too powerful I guess? You can't exactly argue that -one- type of buyable powerup is okay, but this other one is horribly powerful. I also kind of thought it would be all or nothing...
What about bolts and crossbows. Will they still be slayers and seekers.
Slayers are gone because they were probably too powerful with a ELB
Slayer and Seeker -Ammo-.
And they were gotten rid of because their effect's were redundant. Who really used seekers on a bow that already seeked? And slayers were, eh, at best, considering most people weren't using the bows for the damage, but for the affect.
I used slayer bolts as much as I could (though they were hard to buy). At the very least I think I should be able to transfer the naming to another item. It kinda blows to spend real cash donating to a game only to have that get deleted.
June 1 2007 1:41 PM EDT
after all this time.
Hmmm... not a bad question.
This could either mean that Jon just now felt as if it was an issue or... hopefully... that there are some new and interesting changes coming =D
June 1 2007 1:46 PM EDT
Ranger, id hazard a guess at, everyone moans about elbows being the bees knees.
Now they cant do as much damage or seek.
June 1 2007 1:58 PM EDT
Interesting change for the would be archer: archery based teams have to make a choice now: ELB with lots of damage but maybe not enough to get the hidden Mage; or weaker bows and seek seek seek.
If I was running a mage I think I'd be pretty happy about this particular change.
"It will spawn normally."
Ok, to clear this up for chatters, does this mean normal as in compound normal or rare normal?
He means, simply:
Are the darn things spawning in STORE or in AUCTIONS?
June 1 2007 2:06 PM EDT
From Jon in previous post: "s/in stores/normally/"
So it looks like it will spawn in stores.
So will it spawn in the store normal, like a compound bow, or leather gloves normal, or will it spawn directly into auctions normal? I took stores as weapons/armor normal.
I think that Jon wanted to stop the rare ammo exploitment by introducing that new bow. And I prefer getting my mage hit by a compound bow then a ELB. Nice change.
And if you have to exchange an exbow, axbow or ELB for it, I think it's because it will spawn in auction as a rare item.
That makes no sense? If it has the same stats as a compound bow, why would it spawn in stores? Why not just get rid of every other non-rare ranged weapon lol? I mean, same damage but with an ability and 40% cheaper?
June 1 2007 2:18 PM EDT
And there are still DCM's why?
June 1 2007 2:19 PM EDT
Nice change, but did the cash compensation allow for deleting stacks of named arrows ?
June 1 2007 2:19 PM EDT
Oh, DCMS aren't redundant though. They just suck. There's a difference. See, everything that exists is -different- from other things. But in this case, the mageseeker is simply a -better- version of the same thing. Reduced upgrade cost, but exactly same damage at same stats, and an inherent seek. So why bother with compound?
June 1 2007 2:23 PM EDT
From: system Sent: 12:59 PM EDT
$121 sent to Shade Test Dummy after deleting your Slayer Bolt.
From: system Sent: 12:59 PM EDT
$121 sent to Shade Test Dummy after deleting your Seeker Bolt.
From: system Sent: 12:59 PM EDT
$101 sent to Shade Test Dummy after deleting your Slayer Arrow.
From: system Sent: 12:59 PM EDT
$101 sent to Shade Test Dummy after deleting your Seeker Arrow.
So this mageseeker bow means that these things of ammo are removed from the game? if not, can I have these single pieces of ammo back please...
June 1 2007 2:23 PM EDT
Because you cant afford a mageseeker?
Just a bit of happiness at having them perhaps lol? Or maybe just testing?
How are we going to test this new bow out when it's base?... OR can we sink cash into it and expect to get it back?... How is this going to work?
I think he means you can keep it when you get it.
Okay... so how many people have a base ex, ax, or ELB?
June 1 2007 2:39 PM EDT
exbows and axbows are worth less than 200k.
elbows are worth over a mill.
so, how does this work?
"But in this case, the mageseeker is simply a -better- version of the same thing. Reduced upgrade cost, but exactly same damage at same stats, and an inherent seek. So why bother with compound?" -Dragon
Mageseeker is FORCED to target mages; including targets with base decay on a team where attacking the first minion may be wanted. IE, a base Decay minion in back (or base FB or MM, even) with a good amount of HP. You can't kill it before melee, or just kill it fast enough, so now your CoC or FB has to hit it, too. Compound Bow, on the other hand, won't have this happen. It will attack and take out the low HP meatshields in front.
Everything is different from other things, which is why they're in the game. We wouldn't have two of the EXACT same item called "Chain Link Armor" and "Chain Armor", would we? That would be redundant. ;)
"But in this case, the mageseeker is simply a -better- version of the same thing. Reduced upgrade cost, but exactly same damage at same stats, and an inherent seek. So why bother with compound?"
HX / AX / EX
"Nice change, but did the cash compensation allow for deleting stacks of named arrows ?"
Not really NS. Because each one of them has a completely different purpose. Because they're rare with different prices =D
and add MS bow and the whole name to the spell check please
My 666 Slayer arrows :*(
June 1 2007 3:14 PM EDT
lost my named seekers as well. :(
I'm just lucky that I'm already setup to handle mages with normal arrows :)
June 1 2007 3:20 PM EDT
Also will arrows now spawn just a bit more in the stores? Since the lack of other types?
count me in on the new toy :)
(The Thing) 18.104.22.168 Central Bank (Central Bank) An Enforcer's Crossbow ($19461) -- For Mageseeker 3:24 PM EDT
It's not going to spawn in stores s/X/Y is a way to say that you're replacing one thing with another...
Does this bow have the compound's 90% CTH?
Doh, forgot to check named status. I'll make a list and get compensation to you for those.
Originally my post said "in stores." s/in stores/normally means I changed it to say "normally." Rare items normally spawn in auctions which is where this will spawn.
I'll get trade-ins and auctions set up by tonight.
June 1 2007 3:45 PM EDT
cool I figured you might have overlooked that :)
Glad to hear we'll be compensated.
Curious. These -will- shoot through AoI, right?
they will work exactly how compound bow + seekers worked
"Not really NS. Because each one of them has a completely different purpose. Because they're rare with different prices =D"
Blacksmith prices are the same... or did you mean something else?
"Doh, forgot to check named status. I'll make a list and get compensation to you for those."
Are you serious? I honestly thought this would get chalked up to another one of those "tough luck" sort of things. Seriously, though, thank you.
June 1 2007 5:57 PM EDT
Does NW of mageseeker one get match the NW of item traded in?
June 1 2007 6:23 PM EDT
when do we start getting them / spawning in stores& auctions
June 1 2007 7:41 PM EDT
This item will eventually replace the Elbow as the most overpowered item in the game, and it will either be removed, or seriously nerfed a la FoD and IA's.
isn't 40% cheaper upgrade cost a wee bit much?... Doesn't that mean I can create a mageseeker bow with as much damage as an ELB for 20% less? ... Maybe the upgrade cost should be adjusted.
June 1 2007 8:20 PM EDT
Ah yes,but will we be able to forge it or will it upgrade via blacksmith only
If it's the same as the compound bow, then the base damage is 4. Trust me, with a base damage of four, there's little to worry about.
Well... mages have no AC...
There's nothing to worry about for ToE mages...
June 1 2007 8:23 PM EDT
Jon, I like you more and more every day. =D
The wiki says a base damage of 5...... Hmmm.
Jon said compound, I read composite. So sue me :)
Ok, so a base damage of 5 might be formidable.
Especially when you can have it do as much damage as an ELB for 20% less of the costs. I think a 10% hit to CTH is worth it for free permanent seekers.
June 1 2007 9:40 PM EDT
:x will sods get permanent splash? :x its kinda no point using an SOD without splash
June 1 2007 9:44 PM EDT
Sure, for -1 base damage. =)
June 1 2007 9:50 PM EDT
Lovely, Mageseekers are less damage to me and my melee-tank team. I hope all the Archers swap to MS' then they'd be screwed. >:)
June 1 2007 9:51 PM EDT
well 1stly its so hard to find exp shots 2ndly SODs are useless without its ammo... and considering the specialist ammo is 11x degrading to using iron shots and a passive splash would make it 7x which i think is a large enuff difference compared from 11x to 8x considering ammos are x3 more effective.... doubt you need to nerf SODs
June 2 2007 1:02 AM EDT
Dang! No more profiteering from buying and selling Seekers! lol
sent money for deleted named ammo
$469,730.789899194 sent to The Iconics 3e for the deleted named ammo that would have expired on 2008-03-14 00:10:56-04.
That's a rather humorous message....
June 2 2007 10:15 AM EDT
I want that 79 cents! You've become fractional, NS! *smile*
Well, he does have to give a royalty to the manufacturer of Noldorin Spellcasters now ;P
June 2 2007 1:12 PM EDT
Why so many mageseekers in auctions? Maybe a little TOO many... I don't think every tank team needs a Mageseeker at the moment. Plus, you know that some of these are going to go for wicked cheap because there are SOOO many in auctions at the same time. I'm just questioning motives here. }:) Maybe to deflate prices before they rise in the first place? No idea...
June 2 2007 2:14 PM EDT
If the Compound Bow and Mageseeker are both 8700 per X, then how is it 40% cheaper to upgrade? I assume you mean on the PTH part only, Jonathan?
June 2 2007 3:14 PM EDT
with so many in auctions, I guess mages will have to pony up some money to buy them all, and they won't be as cheap as seekers. ;)
glad i lost this
bid to Mr. Chairman already, and just why is he already bidding on these??
June 5 2007 6:20 AM EDT
Because we've already set what Mr Chairman thinks they're worth. If you take a look at finished auctions he's only trying to maintain the price.
ok, why not this
one? I'm just mad, because i know these arent going to be worth 1 mil+ at base in time. Imho, at least.
June 5 2007 6:42 AM EDT
I'm guessing he got personal with you smallpaul and just didn't want you getting your hands on one of the shiny new bows.
Either that or he decided to bid after x had been released into the game. You just got unlucky I would imagine.
I think it's much more likely they'll be worth more than that...
AX/EX have to be larger to turn tank only teams to complete paste, these bows do massive damage at 1/4 the X...Mage Pate!
I don't think they will do. Without Miteke, Nerevas and Glory they would already be under 1M.
June 5 2007 11:09 AM EDT
Personally, once people see how good these new bows are, they will be worth more then the ELB.
Considering that a relatively small x, combined with BG's, can do 1M damage to familiars quite easy, they are a perfect anti-mage item.
Right now, they are pretty new and non upgraded. Just give it time.
June 5 2007 12:04 PM EDT
There has never been anything wrong with compounds, I used them a lot in the early days of my fighting; decent amounts of damage for your money - and add that seeking ability as a permanent feature...unless the market gets swamped I think you'll see the price of these shoot up. Unlike the SoD - which I love BTW - there's no worrying about specialty ammo either. Maybe you won't be doing damage quite as big as an ELB is capable but...I agree with Ranger on this - VB is a good comparison....
June 5 2007 12:26 PM EDT
In fact I'd go as far as comparing the Mageseeker/elb to Morgul Hammer/BoNE; less damage but a constant ability to make up for it.
In spite of my bidding, I only picked up 2 of these gems. I bid 1M because I think they are under priced at that cost and I am an opportunist. Not sure whether to resell both or keep one around.
keep then resell at a later time when they're worth 2-3 mil
June 5 2007 4:49 PM EDT
well you wanted to get rid of seekers, look what was put in place instead. :)
June 5 2007 4:50 PM EDT
i would agree that this bow should be like specially xbows... 4 base damage... i wonder what everyone thinks
June 5 2007 4:52 PM EDT
Agreed, as discussed in chat, 4 for the msk would be nice. Also, increasing the hxbow to 5 would be good to increase choice in the ranged weapons.
June 5 2007 5:01 PM EDT
I would hate the new bow to have the same fate as the VB.
It being a great weapon that every says is too powerful for how it is. Nothing being done to it for about 2 years and then when a few brave souls spend a lot of cb2 into it---BAMMMM---nerfage. The market for one crashes and some people are left holding the bag.
If it needs to be balanced, just do it now.
June 5 2007 5:04 PM EDT
BTW, great idea Losting.
June 5 2007 5:33 PM EDT
lostling ;) but yea we all in chat came out with the idea so i guess it should be posted :) hehe ne way yep it would be good if items most items are brought into play -.-" even those items that nobody ever uses but only new players lol... out of the 21 1 handed weps only 4 types are ever used lol
June 5 2007 11:39 PM EDT
I disagree, it is a new specialty item and it needs to be viable option vs using an elb. A lot of strats just got changed with this new base item, people with small elb will have to start all over again pumping cb2 into their main weapon, that is not very cool.
June 6 2007 6:27 AM EDT
Are you serious?
Anyone can still use an ELB, ELBs are still great for massive damage, I think a lot of teams can use an ELB instead of MSB.
June 6 2007 6:32 AM EDT
then what makes specialty xbows a viable option vs elb? shouldnt we boost the damage to 5?
June 6 2007 6:34 AM EDT
It already is 5.
No Flamey, he is saying about the xbows.
The difference is that bolts have a higher base than arrows making them better for damage.
I think xbows should stay at 4 but the upgrade costs reduced or the upgrade costs of ELB and MSB increased.
June 6 2007 9:22 AM EDT
well the question remains :) do x bows deal more damage or the new mageseekers?
Well heres what my Exbow does with ~900k str:
My Minion hit other minion with Rust Never Sleeps 
Rust Never Sleeps [4x955] (+50), I don't have any BGs or anything like that, its all in rentals right now :D
June 6 2007 7:40 PM EDT
Don't be silly about the ex/ax bows. They also drain a stat. M-seekers don't, so the added damage is justified.
Now if they started draining DD levels, then yes lower the damage.
Hey, that's not a bad idea - I'd rather lose some spell damage than get killed =P
June 8 2007 8:13 PM EDT
As I posted in the other thread
, I think Mageseekers are far from overpowered. And I'm a mage.
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