Single Minion Enchanter (in General)

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] August 14 2007 6:29 AM EDT

I've been gone a short while (again).

Only, I can't seem to get CB out of my head.

There's this little part in the back of my brain that keeps waking up and making me ponder a particular CB strategy.
Someone asked me for a hand in getting this strategy to work a few months ago, after a few half baked ideas and one or two good ones, I didn't come up with much at the time. I still haven't.

The strategy is the single minion enchanter. Do it with GA, don't cheat and use AMF... well, you can, but it must be trained lower than GA is.
I personally have no objection to adding further minions, just so long as GA is the primary weapon.

Any ideas are welcome.

QBRanger August 14 2007 6:49 AM EDT

Welcome back, we missed you.

QBJohnnywas August 14 2007 6:58 AM EDT

MrC!!! Good day!

This one goes around and around doesn't it? I've discussed this with a few different people over the years. How do you kill enchanters is the question? It requires some sort of 'real' weapon to enable that.

If you're doing it cheap then maybe some low level FB maybe?

HP/GA/AMF/FB x 4 perhaps? The more minions the better if you're using GA.

Wasp August 14 2007 7:05 AM EDT

Single minion with GA. Hmm I don't think thats really possible, unless it has a really high AC to lower damage. What would stop you drawing with other walls that do not damage you. More minons would be needed, and even then, I don't think GA could be used as a single offensive attack, combined with another, yes it can work... not on its own though.

QBJohnnywas August 14 2007 7:07 AM EDT

You could couple it with a large-ish SoD? Of course then you've either got to make one of minions a tank, preferably with PTH, or invest lots of money into PTH....

Hmmm SoD/GA combo? Sounds familiar.........


Lumpy Koala August 14 2007 7:16 AM EDT

Good luck finding targets that doesn't stalemate with you and you can still win :)

Though I would suggest this for the heck of it :

M1: Evasion + AS
M2: GA
M3: AS + ROS

It will still stalemate with anyone that has enchanter :P But greatly increase you chance against single minion team I hope. Oh and single minion enchanter won't work at all... unless you equip an offensive tattoo.

48Zach August 14 2007 9:08 AM EDT

Hey Chuckles!!! Long time man! (It's Zach, so you know)

Talion August 14 2007 9:11 AM EDT

If you have enough HP, you might win some fights against other characters that only have damage dealing minions. You would have to keep your DX at 0 with no PTH defense, but it could potentially work for a while.

However, those types of characters (using only damage dealing minions) become pretty rare has your MPR gets bigger, so it would only be a temporary strategy.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2007 9:13 AM EDT

Mr C! :D

If you wanna cheat and use a damage delaing familiar, check out my charcater. ;)

The Base decay is just for show (and to get the familiar in front of me), doesn't make me a mage! :P

As for relying purely on GA, you'ld need a RoS to stop DM. Only way of doing it would be to train HP and GA. :/

But then you have no way of killing enemy Enchanters. :/

QBRanger August 14 2007 9:17 AM EDT

Another excellent familiar/GA strategy is novice's on Violent Femmes.

He uses an IF and a massive GA.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 14 2007 10:04 AM EDT

don't forget having over 10 mil total team HP...

QBsutekh137 August 14 2007 11:31 AM EDT

10 million team HP?

Victor DeLorenzo cast Ablative Shield on all friendly Minions (259873).

Muhahaha! You are the reason I exist, nov! *smile*

Dang, that's still a lot of HP! reminds me of Dixie Cousins... I reduce her AS to similar levels and she can still draw me from time to time...GAH!

As far as single enchanter, hasn't someone brought up the idea of using an RoBF, AMF, and GA? Full passive damage? Though I suppose the RoBF idea gets kind of laughed at since it just doesn't have what it takes... You would at least be a nice foil for FB mage teams!

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] August 14 2007 11:34 AM EDT

That reads 259,873...

QBsutekh137 August 14 2007 11:38 AM EDT

Yeah, times five, so he still gets around 1.3 million total team HP against the highest DM...

Kai August 14 2007 11:43 AM EDT

My first character, Bleach, attempted a 4-minion with GA as the "primary" weapon, using 2 minions as pure AS to make the team have a large chunk of HP, and another minion with a high level prot to lower damage so it doesn't beat GA.

That worked quite well, but stalemates were a HUGE problem. I kept a 100% challenge bonus until I hit about 1.4 million score, then it was nearly impossible. Most players at that point have DM, or are a single archer/MM mage, which will overpower your GA no matter what you do. You just can't keep it high enough to match how fast their damage increases, while having enough HP to survive.

Remember, GA requires their HP is at MOST 60% of yours, or you simply can't reflect enough and live at the same time. However, the black sheep of tattoos, Halidon, made the strategy shine. He out-damaged the MM familiar as long as the enemy didn't have a high evasion, decent HP, and with junction on EB + Beleg, he packed a solid punch to break through walls and prevent most stalemates.

QBsutekh137 August 14 2007 11:47 AM EDT

Interesting, go Hal!

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] August 14 2007 12:01 PM EDT

Oh, that's what you meant

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 14 2007 12:37 PM EDT

"As far as single enchanter, hasn't someone brought up the idea of using an RoBF, AMF, and GA?"

I thought about that. ;)

Would have been great if you had some way of killing other E's. :(

QBOddBird August 14 2007 12:38 PM EDT

What about a highly upgraded dagger? Surely you couldn't count that as a tank! xD

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] August 15 2007 4:37 AM EDT

My opinion is that it simply requires too much EXP to be effective. Even assuming we manage to balance it out so that it's a winning strategy, it will still be inferior to most alternatives.

* EXP is focussed in two stats (HP and GA) and is therefore easy to artificially increase with armor (i.e. 1mil HP/GA, with 10% damage reduction from AC and 10% bonus from mage gear is roughly 1.1mil in each stat, when you focus in only a few stats this becomes a huge advantage).
* Few people will defend against it. How many of us have added a non-attacking minion simply to defend against GA enchanters? Sure, a lot of strategies will accidentally defend against you, but with a small attack from a weapon/DD/familiar, a big portion of characters should become reasonable targets.
* It's a single minion enchanter, you can pop into chat or the forums and brag about how smart/insane you must be to have such a character.

With those advantages in mind, it still appears that the single minion enchanter isn't practical.
Of course, if you're in the habit of thinking so far outside the box that you didn't even know there was a box (as I seem to be), you may have realised that a mage targeting single minion enchanter with a DD familiar can work wonders. 100% AMF (only 20HP) and a decent DD familiar should work against most mages, very effective if you want to get excellent challenge bonuses.

GA on the other hand, I haven't figured out yet.

Talion August 15 2007 1:06 PM EDT

"100% AMF (only 20HP) and a decent DD familiar should work against most mages"

Actually, if your target mages that have even mildly decent AMF, your familiar will kill itself after 2 or 3 attacks (only 10% of level in HP).
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