Can we have an anti melee Shield please? (in General)


Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 10 2007 8:05 PM EST

Someone only needs to slap on a mageshield and all DD gets reduced for such an amount I can't suddenly beat him anymore. Another carefully selected opponent gone from my fight list.
Now this I find very funny that someone that I can beat hands down only needs a mageshield to force a draw or a loss.
Yes the mageshield is effective against DD we all know that, but where ow where is the shield that reduces melee damage like that? And don't say 400 AC because that isn't a single item. But then again one single item can cut that to pieces, the VB.
But the mageshield is one single item that does just that

ToE you say? No that only works really well with high AC.
So where is the SINGLE item that reduces melee damage? Don't say db's because at some point db's won't save your poor mage from getting hit.

I'm just ranting, I'm getting frustrated to see that mage teams CAN'T be as powerful as a tank team, what if i want to dump millions of cb into my mage team.

Vote for Single item that reduces melee damage!!!!!

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:06 PM EST

Be happy with an MS.

If there was a shield like that just couple it with the other heavy armors are you're set.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:06 PM EST

*and

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 November 10 2007 8:10 PM EST

Two Handed Shield :p

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 10 2007 8:10 PM EST

You only need to slap on a mgs and your DD proof.
Does that seem fair?

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:14 PM EST

You're not "DD proof", it reduces around 40% for a big MgS.

A nerf is a much better solution.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 10 2007 8:18 PM EST

40% if you reduced every melee blow out there (including ranged weapons) with 40% nobody would be able to fight anymore.
I still can't figure out why there is so much anti DD out there, if mage teams can't be as powerful as tank teams. The only reason I could think of is the "always hit" factor. But then again the RoBF always hits and you don't see many items specially designed to combat that.
And with those supercharged bows out there that do monster damage, you only have evasion to combat that.
Why does CB have so much anti DD items?

I know, its to give Todd an unfair advantage.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:27 PM EST

"if you reduced every melee blow out there (including ranged weapons) with 40% nobody would be able to fight anymore."

Wasn't that your suggestion?

My reasoning for why MgS was created is because only the + on armor reduces magic damage, while all AC reduces melee.

"And with those supercharged bows out there that do monster damage, you only have evasion to combat that."

Evasion, DBs, AC, ToE, kill slots, etc. Besides I'd figure supercharged bows with a whole ton of USD in them should be able to kill decently well.

"Why does CB have so much anti DD items?"

MgS, EH, RoBF. With the exception of those three, all other items give equal or greater protection vs. melee than magic. And even so RoBF also grants some evasion.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 10 2007 8:33 PM EST

"MgS, EH, RoBF. With the exception of those three, all other items give equal or greater protection vs. melee than magic. And even so RoBF also grants some evasion."

Not true, you still have normal AC that gives protection so, pretty much every item is anti DD, but of course to get protection against melee (like 350+ AC) you need to spend a TON OF USD on it.
The MGS DOESN'T require a ton of usd to get simple fast reduction and then if you combine that with the EH, which i completely forgot, you got even more CHEAP reduction. I thought TANKS teams cost money?
And the RoBF? don't get me started about that thing.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:38 PM EST

"Not true, you still have normal AC that gives protection so, pretty much every item is anti DD"

I just said that... I also said all of those items are even better melee reducers.

"The MGS DOESN'T require a ton of usd to get simple fast reduction and then if you combine that with the EH, which i completely forgot, you got even more CHEAP reduction."

"Cheap", you say. A +40 MgS can cost up to 10M nowadays, enough to get you around a 300 AC set of armor... and when you couple an MgS and EH the EH is applied after the MgS so an MgS +50 and an EH +50 would only reduce 75% even on the first round.

Flamey November 10 2007 8:48 PM EST

"enough to get you around a 300 AC set of armor"

I don't think so. And *only* 75%?

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 8:51 PM EST

My 300 AC sold for about 10M.

"Only", relatively to the cost it takes to get a +50 MgS and EH.

Flamey November 10 2007 8:54 PM EST

Surely the base costs of the AC items would be around 5 mil at least? Then you would have to upgrade the items a fair bit.

Well, even 50% is a lot, and that doesn't cost much when you're coupling a MgS with an EH.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 9:09 PM EST

"My 300 AC sold for about 10M." Plus, you don't have to upgrade them yourself.

Here's the math, anyway: +70 Adam sold for 3.3M, +17 TGs sold for 1.6M, +35 MS sold for 900k, +19 SC sold for 750k, +36 CMLs sold for 1.3M, +15 HoD sold for 400k, +14 AoAC sold for 2.25M. Comes out to 10.5M, and 310 AC.

That being said, 300 AC reduces 63% melee damage - 310 AC reduces 65.1% melee damage and 43.3% magic.

MgS base costs at least 5M I'm estimating, EH costs 1M base. Upgrade to +38 MgS and +38 EH will give you 61.6% magic reduction, and 8% melee reduction. Probably costs around 9M total.

So which is better for the cost?

48Zach November 10 2007 9:12 PM EST

Fanta -- more fore the cost, BUT -- You can always ad the Tulkas, and HoD, and Shadow Cloak, and CML's and AoAC ON TOP of the EH and MgS..

Hmm.. Now what?

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 10 2007 9:14 PM EST

Yeah, but we're comparing cost. You'd go over doing that.

Oh and also that magic reduction figure with the EH and MgS thing is only for the first round. By the way... if you look up, I said the MgS needs to be nerfed. I just didn't say it was cheap.

TheHatchetman November 10 2007 10:11 PM EST

[Disclaimer: I haven't read the thread aside from the title]

anti-melee shield would be ludicrous! melee damage isnt what's out of control... If anything, it's ranged damage. Though, evasion seems to keep that in check.

QBRanger November 11 2007 12:23 AM EST

I have wanted a Missile Shield. Analogous to a mage shield but with the same restrictions. Or if you wanted to use it on a mage, have the restriction be no skills allowed. Reasoning- The MgS nullifies 3 of the 4 skill/spell slots on a character, the missile shield should do the same. Pick which one you want to be safe, either DD or skill.

Heck, it should be the 2nd true Power Shield and move the BoM back to normal shield territory.

QBOddBird November 11 2007 2:09 AM EST

"You're not "DD proof", it reduces around 40% for a big MgS. "

Nah, a +40 isn't too big. Remember, +49 is 26.5M - and that's the very biggest one. Assuming that's named, I'd say about ~27.5M isn't bad to cut an opponent's damage in half with a single item.

And I partially agree with you, Ranger - I'd love to see that Missile Shield. I don't wanna see BoM moved to the normal shield category, though, simply because of the existence of the ToA. After all, the only advantages my non-tattoo'd ST tank has over the ToA truly are the BoM and the TSA....

Flamey November 11 2007 3:21 AM EST

Anti-archer shield would be cool :) The BoM should work properly for 2H weapons as well. The users that only use a tank with no ToA and no 2H weapons are very few in number.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 11 2007 7:44 AM EST

Evasion yes, there is always a small chance that an archer will hit you and if he does its an insta kill

Xenko November 11 2007 1:23 PM EST

You should also consider the fact the anyone who equips an MgS is vulnerable to melee damage and so there is a trade-off:

- Good protection against DD (except decay) but no protection against melee, spells to level 0 and no tattoo on the minion.
or
-Moderate protection against both DD and melee (using a MS instead), but only a slight reduction in spell level.

So equipping the MgS might make your particular strategy ineffective, but it would make someone else's strategy much more effective.

th00p November 11 2007 2:40 PM EST

"Can we have an anti melee Shield please?"

No.

AdminShade November 11 2007 3:23 PM EST

Henk, I have a Mage Shield and I _still_ get kiilled by loads and loads of mage strategies even _if_ my Mage Shield blocks about 4x% of the magic damage.

QBsutekh137 November 11 2007 4:19 PM EST

Kultur, that is a good point. Mage shields have to take all that front-hitting melee damage. That means most MgS holders stand at the back. Of course, that makes them useless against all the front-firing, non-spread DD out there.

Oh wait, there is no front-firing, non-spread DD out there.

"Decay" speakers, hold your breath. I've laughed enough today.

There is no front-firing DD, so if anyone is standing in front with an MgS, you are a bona fide CB newbie and you need a better mentor.

So, Kultur, do you really think MgS wearers are "vulnerable" to melee damage? Any MgS wearer who is vulnerable would have to made that way by his/her own team via AoIs and such.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] November 11 2007 4:46 PM EST

"Any MgS wearer who is vulnerable would have to made that way by his/her own team via AoIs and such."

Or, on the off chance that all other minions got killed, he'd be vulnerable. But I'm just throwing out a suggestion...

QBsutekh137 November 11 2007 6:28 PM EST

Last Man Standing is always a scenario, yes.

However, it is rarely a strategy.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 11 2007 6:45 PM EST

Ranger, hell yeah! I'd even suggested names along the lines of 'Inertia Shield' abouthe time the Mage Shield came out. Solid reasoning, we should have one.

But then why not compete the trinity and have a Melee Specific one as well?

Sute, one of the reasons for my Decay suggestion! :P That or the other oft sugested 'Chain Lightning' (or equivalent) front hitting DD. ;)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] November 11 2007 6:56 PM EST

All what is needed now is to give some power to mages!
power to the mages!
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002H7c">Can we have an anti melee Shield please?</a>