HC's New NCB Theory? (in General)


Hyrule Castle January 4 2008 11:48 AM EST

so i have been thinking. It would seem that the only way to get to the top... at all. (other than buying a char in the top) Would be to make one.

Now the easiest way to do that, i would think is to run a NCB ...but you have to buy all the BA you can. which grows...to be very expensive. It would have cost me 2.7k per BA if i chose to buy some.

So here is what i propose be done.

The New NCB, has free BA....but theres a kicker. You get no money!. Now i understand that this will make people who are in the game for money a little angry...but at least for those of us who would like a shot at the top...we can kind of do that now.

Hell, you can even have 2 options when making the NCB...
1.)you get a money bonus (but you have to pay for BA)
2.)Your BA is free and you get no money during fights.

Now i'm sure there was a thread like this, or a poll that we voted on so i will not claim fame to this amazing idea......or will I?

I am awesome...right?

Your opinions...?*gulp*

Talion January 4 2008 11:51 AM EST

I like the NCB just the way it is.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 11:57 AM EST

hmm.. So it would be like unlimited BA.. that would really help some of us that dont get on that much actually be competitive. I really like the idea and wish something like this actually happened it would in a way kill the econ clan though if you think about it. But yeahh I totally like this idea. But I doubt something like this would ever happenn :(..

Ulord[NK] January 4 2008 11:58 AM EST

well the fact is the current NCB BA cost is far greater than the amount of money you make per fight. So to implement this option would be strictly a buff from the previous NCB. In other words, would it be intended to make ncb a lot easier than it is now?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 12:02 PM EST

I think if you are hardcore enough to hit most of your BA a day for 4 months and get near the top with an NCB you should be willing and able to get the cash together to pay for it.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 12:09 PM EST

(notice how rubberduck said near the top)..

Hyrule Castle January 4 2008 12:23 PM EST

you need like... a good 30-40 mil in order to spend all your BA PREHAND to starting the NCB... that would take a good 6 months for non USD users... and by that time.. ranger is another 300k mpr higher and its that much harder for us to catch up.

Action must be taken now... ?

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 12:25 PM EST

Yeahh.. Pretty much you would need to CHEAT and buy USD.. OR else there really is no way to save up the cash.. jon do something...

Ulord[NK] January 4 2008 12:29 PM EST

It's pretty much established that you cannot beat ranger unless he quits. You'll be at most 2mil mpr after a full ncb run. Ranger is at 3.4mil right now. Top 10 is within reach though...

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 12:30 PM EST

THEN WHATS THE POINT OF THE NCB... IF THERES NO HOPE TO BEAT THE TOP?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 12:30 PM EST

eh? You want to run a top char and can't raise 30-40M? You don't deserve a top char then do you..

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 12:32 PM EST

I don't think we have seen how far the N*B at the new rate will take a dedicated player yet. I doubt it is possible to do a Mantra now but maybe...

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 12:32 PM EST

even with that cash your not gonna be number 1.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] January 4 2008 12:35 PM EST

Rubberduck your a USD user thats where your gettting a lot of your cash from.. why dont you try and save 30-40million without US dollars now.. And lets see how long it takes...

Ulord[NK] January 4 2008 12:36 PM EST

Why should you be number 1 in 4 months? Ranger has fought consistently over 3 years to get where he is. Being at 2mil mpr range gives you a chance fight with the big guys as is. You'll need to put in your own 3 years of dedication to move into the very top. That's very fair to me.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 12:39 PM EST

um, I'm a USD user thats a new one, I'd guess I've made about 2k US from CB. I sell CB$.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 12:42 PM EST

Get in a good clan, run a strat where you profit from buying BA, always buy in money time, do some trading/rentals, 30-40M is not that much, really.

Ulord[NK] January 4 2008 12:55 PM EST

40mil would take me 1 ncb to make with spare change. It is a fair point that by the time you finish your ncb and start another one, the leading pack would be further ahead. It's not easy getting ahead...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 1:13 PM EST

If you are trying to set up a BA buying NCB by running a NCB you are not helping yourself to get ahead.

Ulord[NK] January 4 2008 1:16 PM EST

How else am I suppose to get money if I don't spend usd? Send Santa a letter asking for 40mil for Christmas? You can trade and maybe forge for cash, but I suspect forging would take just as long because the uncertainty of jobs. Bottomline, running NCB is the easiest, most risk free way of generating cash.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] January 4 2008 1:18 PM EST

It is the easiest as you don't buy BA, but the fastest way to make cash is with buying BA.

{cb1}Linguala January 4 2008 2:55 PM EST

Actually, making money by forging isn't that hard.
Once you establish a good reputation as a forger, you won't have to worry about jobs too much.
And once you have a good reputation, you really should be able to make at least 10m monthly(especially if you spend all ba every day).
Take me as an example, I'm competing with the top guys on daily, weekly and monthly base as a forger and I have 4 days of 9 hour shifts(10 hours if you count the road to and back too). On top of that, if I need 8-9 hours of sleep, I sleep 8-9 hours, so I'm missing out on ba that way too(luckily this doesn't happen too often).

There, now you have the opinion of a forger.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 4 2008 3:11 PM EST

"and by that time.. ranger is another 300k mpr higher and its that much harder for us to catch up.

Action must be taken now... ?"

No. Not particularily. That's the method of the current bonuses.

It's doesn't matter a jot how much Ranger (or whoever is top) grows from now until you start your bonus character. Or however larger the top spot is before you start.

All that matters is how fast Ranger (or whoever is top) grows compared to you, once you start.

Colonel Custard January 6 2008 12:21 PM EST

I just tested this. I bought 24 BA on my NCB character (for around 1600 each, so about 3/5 of what HC's BA costs), fought through them, and came out of it with 30k less than I had started with. When your balance is more than -1k per battle fought, there's no way to make that up. You can fight all your free BA for the day, buy all your BA, and be out a net 200k at the end of the day.

Just saying this in response to people who are saying that buying BA still yields a positive balance.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] January 6 2008 2:35 PM EST

On an NCB, up to about 750k MPR, I achieved positive balance everyday. You just gotta use all the free BA, and have a good challenge bonus. After 750k is another story completely though.

Wasp [Demon Forging] January 6 2008 4:41 PM EST

The only way you can get to the top is if you have a lot of USD to spare or if you are a new player. In other words... Sorry chaps, we are here to make up the numbers for the new players to fight. How does it feel??

Relic January 6 2008 5:32 PM EST

Here is some real telling information regarding NCB BA cost.

I currently am in the 7/10 BA Rate. I burn two full 160 chunks of BA daily and buy all my BA daily (251 BA at this rate).

So my BA cost per day is 251 x $2,614 (per BA) = $656,114
With the normal fighting I do coupled with the purchased BA that equates to 571 BA used. I average about 300 to 350 CB2 per battle.

So my net LOSS every day at this point is approximately $484,814 CB2, which is just under 4 million a week in CB2 net LOSS.

I have 14 days left in my NCB and to purchase full BA for the remaining time will cost me no less than $9,185,596 and provide a net LOSS overall of $6,787,396. That is ridiculous imo that it should cost you that much and net LOSS you as much as it does. With tattoo, items and BA, I have spent almost 60 mil CB2 on this NCB and for what? A character that is doomed to be in the 7/10 rate forever with no hope of ever catching the top guys.

Anyone telling you that NCB have even a prayer of making the top 10 is even a joke at his point. The CB goes from 100% to maybe 10% almost overnight around the 800 to 850K MPR milestone.

While HC has two decent ideas above, it still doesn't solve the problem of no one being able to compete for top spot. I have only missed at most 4 or 5 days of BA purchasing and maybe another day or two of BA burning. I am barely hitting 1.4 mil MPR...


QBRanger January 6 2008 5:35 PM EST

2 words:

Rolling Bonus!

QBOddBird January 6 2008 5:40 PM EST

Of course the NCB can get you to the top 10, right where it is supposed to.

All it takes is a 100% Challenge Bonus from day 1 until the end.

There's no problem with that, is there...?

Oh, right.

GummyBear January 6 2008 5:45 PM EST

We should just reset the whole game...

(sarcasm)

Colonel Custard January 6 2008 5:51 PM EST

"You just gotta use all the free BA, and have a good challenge bonus." The lowest-scored opponent on my fight list currently has a score of 998,540, while my PR is around 460k. Meaning I get 100% challenge bonus on every single person I fight.

The amount of BA purchaseable per say is supposed to be equal to what you would generate normally in a 12-hour period. That means that, buying all BA, you would get 1.5 times the number of battles in (and 1.5 times the total rewards) compared to someone who doesn't buy who is in the same refresh rate. Since 2/3 of the total BA you would be expending costs you nothing, you would only need to make, per battle, 1/3 of the cost of one BA in order to break even. This seems reasonable, but again, that means that I would have to have average battle rewards of $561. If I average $450 per battle (which is probably about what I end up averaging, most days) I'm losing 20% of the money I spend on my BA.

I'll try buying BA tomorrow and see how profitable it is once I have my usual ~14% clan bonus, and I'll post here again. I suspect, though, that I'll still be losing.

Colonel Custard January 7 2008 10:21 PM EST

I'm back with my data!

Ahem...

I just fought through 324 BA, which cost me $1,729 apiece. I had a 100% challenge bonus on every single battle, except for the last 50 or so when the lowest person on my list dropped to 99, 98, and then 97. I had a clan bonus of 11.4% the whole time, as I completed my research in a little under an hour.

324*1,729 = 560,196 spent on BA.
I started out with 7.078 mil. I ended with 6.7 mil. This means my cash rewards, averaged over 324 battles were 560,196 - 370,000 = 190,196 /324 = $587
My net monetary loss was 370k, while I earned, over that time, 353k Experience. This means that I essentially paid 1.05 CB dollars per point of experience I gained.

Now, the interesting part: the amount of BA purchaseable in one day is supposed to be equal to 1/2 the total BA you would regenerate in a day (one 12-hour period). That means that, if my average income from each battle is less than 1/3 of my BA cost, I am losing money overall, whereas if it is more, I am gaining.

587*3 = 1,761
This means that for every 3 battles I fight, buying all BA, I should gain $32 CBD. Multiply this out to all my BA for 24 hours (324*3=972), and I've made a whopping 31,104 for the day.
Someone fighting at my level, with 100% challenge bonus nearly all the time with an 11.4% clan bonus on top of that has to slow their income to 31k per day in order to use their daily BA. That's nearly nothing. Had I not spent all that money on BA, losing $1142 on average, I should have made somewhere around 400k today.

An NCB with free BA making $0 per battle (which I think is what was suggested originally) would be the same as an NCB with great bonuses buying all BA now except that it would make 31k less per day in cash. Eh.

yoyo January 7 2008 10:37 PM EST

I would think the inherent problem with the NCB is getting past 2.2 mil MPR would be almost impossible and it would probably cost you over 35 mil CB to do it. However, a 2.2 mil MPR minion team would not sell for nearly that much. Additionally, it is unlikely that most people will reach that high of an MPR. Therefore, it seems like a person would get very little return on their investment in the current system. Hopefully, I have not made any incorrect statements here. Thanks for your time.

AdminNightStrike January 7 2008 10:46 PM EST

Currently, we know enough about how the system works to plot the maximum potential of an NCB given a perfect scenario -- 100% BA usage for 120 days, accounting for Bonus time and a clan bonus 6 days a week. If someone is willing to do the math, we'll know if it's possible to overtake the top ranks where they are now, and hopefully, where they'll be in 120 days.

Yukk January 7 2008 10:59 PM EST

Well, if you can only make $CB until a certain MPR then you could always retrain your MPR to oblivion and enjoy some more 100% bonus. Obviously, this is not a getting-to-the-top-10 strategy.

Ulord[NK] January 7 2008 11:03 PM EST

From personal experience and the data posted above, I know an ncb can make 400k a day for a good part of the four months. That illustrates how pointless it is to forge. From what I see, a mil+ character can forge 600k a day roughly. Even at 70% nw, taking away 15% forge fee, you make 55% or 330k a day. Forging reward is a bit on the low side. Assuming an average of 300k a day throughout your ncb career, you would be able to make 36mil from fighting alone. Hence, saving up with an ncb and run another ncb at max ba is always feasible. From experience, such an ncb (or equivalently an nub) hits around 2mil mpr. You may then say hire 3 more minions. That's definitely top 10 with a reasonable strategy.
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