Mr.Chairman annoyances again (in General)


Talion February 10 2008 5:01 PM EST

This auction is another example of Mr. Chairman being unfair and out of whack.

I mean, the bid was about total NW + $300K. that means the bid is at least 70% NW + $400K. And Mr. Chairman overbids?!? Come on!

I really hate Mr.Chairman. Not as much as the single RoBF/Evasion strategy, but close.

colonel [penny pincher] February 10 2008 5:03 PM EST

obviously you're not speaking from the seller's point of view. I rather think the role of Mr. Chairman is quite useful with regard to how auctions go.

Talion February 10 2008 5:09 PM EST

"obviously you're not speaking from the seller's point of view."

I use auctions all the the time to sell stuff. I think it's the seller's responsibility to ensure he gets the price he wants, not an automated obscenity like Mr.Chairman.

TheHatchetman February 10 2008 5:13 PM EST

Some day, some may realize they are only one proxy bid away from "blocking the banker"... May not be today, may not be in 2008... But someday...

Ulord[NK] February 10 2008 5:18 PM EST

The bid is within reason. 560k nw * 70% rounds off to 390k. Paying 500k for a base SoD is a tad low for the current market.

NooneKnows February 10 2008 5:39 PM EST

what TH said.
but seriously, it would be nice if we had any idea of how high Mr. Chairman would bid on an item, so those that legitimately want an item and aren't just looking for a deal can bid accordingly.

Ulord[NK] February 10 2008 5:43 PM EST

bid your bottom line on an item you actually want to purchase. It's not hard to work out. 70% nw + average base price in the last 2 weeks if you want to get really deterministic. If you are purely speculating, then it'll be a little harder. Stay around when the auction is ending is a good idea. Bid 2 increments up then and the item is yours.

Armageddon February 10 2008 6:21 PM EST

I think that Mr. Chairman allows the CB economy to stay as high as it is with supply and demand.

Last Gasp February 10 2008 6:26 PM EST

I actually think that SoD was a bit overvalued anyway... so I'm surprised M.C. came in.

Look at this one:

A Sling of Death [5x112] (+25) $893,687 $1,488,668 $1,250,000

Ulord[NK] February 10 2008 6:34 PM EST

You might want to label your numbers before you present a case.

Mikel February 10 2008 6:46 PM EST

Talion,
Tsk tsk tsk.
Base SoD's run for about 550-650k. Since the new way of getting ES, it has increased in value.

So let's say, 600k is the base value for CB Bank to bid for base.
292k/561k is 51% NW.

Perfectly well with in a reasonable rate.

With that 600k base value, my BIN was only at 71% NW, which is just 1% over what you think it should be.

If you look at a previous auction, you'll see that CB Bank bid 551k for a base SoD, which backs up my base price of a SoD.

QBOddBird February 10 2008 7:30 PM EST

So the conclusion is that the problem here is....Central knows the prices of items better than the average player! ;'D

Frost February 10 2008 8:01 PM EST

Its true, the SELLER should be the one makeing sure the price is good not mr.chairman. Hate that guy :D

QBOddBird February 10 2008 8:12 PM EST

Hmmmm...I have an interesting thought regarding Central.

<a href= "http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001z0a">If item transfer cost is based off of auction sales</a>, then without it x-fer costs could potentially drop on underbid items. Over time, this means less money disappears from the economy through transactions, and so it builds up. With the falling ratio of CBD-USD, soon everyone would own loads and loads of money, with USD spenders having the most! The economy would inflate massively and we'd all quit out of the frustration of fighting 10B NW teams.

So Central is there to help the sellers, yes, but it also does help protect the economy. I hope you enjoyed my Slippery Slope Story!

QBOddBird February 10 2008 8:13 PM EST

...Let's try that again.




Hmmmm...I have an interesting thought regarding Central.

If item transfer cost is based off of auction sales, then without it x-fer costs could potentially drop on underbid items. Over time, this means less money disappears from the economy through transactions, and so it builds up. With the falling ratio of CBD-USD, soon everyone would own loads and loads of money, with USD spenders having the most! The economy would inflate massively and we'd all quit out of the frustration of fighting 10B NW teams.

So Central is there to help the sellers, yes, but it also does help protect the economy. I hope you enjoyed my Slippery Slope Story!

Obscurans February 10 2008 9:02 PM EST

So is Central Bank a NPC or Jonathan's play toy?

Adminedyit February 10 2008 9:39 PM EST

The easy way to avoid this is to learn to set you bids at the max you are willing to pay for an item. That way if you get outbid by another player or CB it was for more than you would pay for it. Come on folks lets learn how proxy bidding works....

Talion February 10 2008 9:50 PM EST

An easier way to avoid this would be to get rid of Mr.Chairman.

[P]Mitt February 10 2008 10:00 PM EST

and the easiest way is to not bid on it.

Jon has made it clear that Central Bank will bid on items it considers undervalued. And I think it's pretty clear, after many many posts complaining about that fact, that he has no intention of changing it.

Godpanda February 10 2008 10:02 PM EST

Or just bid more money for what you want.

Jon has said it, I'm pretty sure. I know many players before me have. It's simple. If you want something, pay for it. If you want it, outbid him. Simple.


I don't have USD. I don't have a NUB. Matter of fact, I don't have much money. But I've never complained about the Chairman, except perhaps in theory awhile ago. With this new system... Just BID ENOUGH MONEY. It's simple. If you don't know what enough is, bid what you'd pay. If you get outbid, then you wouldn't have spent that much money anyways. No regrets.

TheHatchetman February 10 2008 10:04 PM EST

Thanks OB for pointing out how I thought complaining about CB was getting a bit old over a year ago :P

Last Gasp February 10 2008 10:18 PM EST

Item---------------------------------------Price-----------NW-----------Buy now
A Sling of Death [5x112] (+25) $893,687 $1,488,668 $1,250,00

Talion February 10 2008 10:19 PM EST

"and the easiest way is to not bid on it."

Actually, I wasn't bidding on it. I was just feeling sorry for the user bidding on the item. He deserved to win that item and didn't.

Had I been bidding on it, I would have logged on 10 minutes before the auction ended in case Mr.Chairman decided to point its ugly nose. I have learned that lesson a long time ago.

I just feel sorry for relatively new users who think they are getting a lucky break and get crushed under Mr.Chairman's infinitely rich hands.

Those "just bid more" and "don't bid at all" arguments are easy. It is like telling users that don't like getting farmed to just stop playing CB. It is just bad argumentation.

The worst thing is that I respect most of the users throwing those arguments out and I know this is an old topic. It just hits me as so unfair every time I see Mr.Chairman, with its infinite resources, outbidding someone who made a decent bid.

I see that I am not going to get my point of view through on this subject, so this is my last post ever regarding that annoying Mr.Chairman.

TheHatchetman February 10 2008 10:24 PM EST

"Had I been bidding on it, I would have logged on 10 minutes before the auction ended in case Mr.Chairman decided to point its ugly nose. I have learned that lesson a long time ago. "

Place your bid. Go back to the bid page. See the next bid incriment. Raise your bid to that. Banker bids, you guys tie. You bid first. You win.

Talion February 10 2008 10:30 PM EST

That can go wrong in so many ways.

TheHatchetman February 10 2008 10:34 PM EST

well if someone else outbids in that way, and logging in the last 10 minutes would be able to resolve it, then you coulda saved yourself the effort by bidding what you were willing to pay in the first place...

GummyBear February 10 2008 10:39 PM EST

It's just regulating the game's economy. Why complain?

Talion February 10 2008 10:39 PM EST

... assuming I have that money at the time of the bid.

Talion February 10 2008 10:41 PM EST

"It's just regulating the game's economy. Why complain?"

LOL!

Evasion is just another skill. Why complain?
The RoBF is just another tattoo. Why complain?
Damage during ranged rounds is just another equation. Why complain?

GummyBear February 10 2008 10:45 PM EST

You're not losing anything. Go bid on another one. Get over it.

Talion February 10 2008 10:49 PM EST

"You're not losing anything. Go bid on another one. Get over it."

Wow! How can I ever argue with that?

GummyBear February 10 2008 10:51 PM EST

This is where I stop listening

Talion February 10 2008 10:56 PM EST

"This is where I stop listening"

I was hoping you would stop reading instead.

QBOddBird February 10 2008 11:14 PM EST

Flame Wars: A New Hope, Episode XXVIII is apparently on sale again

ActionAction February 10 2008 11:39 PM EST

Andd, this is why I always pay premium prices for my items. If I want it, I'm sure as hell not going to let it go to anyone else - barring USD bids in FS/WTB threads.

Mikel February 10 2008 11:40 PM EST

"Item---------------------------------------Price-----------NW-----------Buy now
A Sling of Death [5x112] (+25) $893,687 $1,488,668 $1,250,00"

Last Gasp? Is this really relevant to now? This happened back in Oct of last year. Since then there have been some changes. Also CB Bank did bid on this item because it thought it was priced to low. It's Ranger's fault for not starting off his Auction higher.

QBRanger February 10 2008 11:41 PM EST

I look at it like a way to keep the number of rares down.

If CB never ever bid on an item, we would have a lot more "rares" in the community. Lowering the value of the current ones out there.

Now, imagine if the inflow of items would stop. Well, that is what happens for supporter items. Limited supply and we see how high the prices are. 4M for a MgS, 5 for a AoF.

So Jon developed this way to and keep a balance between the two.

Now how does it bid? That I think is the question that annoys all of us and the one we perhaps should turn our attention to. Perhaps if we can solve that, we would know what appropriate bids are/should be.

We know that CB uses the average price of auctions and I believe skews the more recent ones, giving that more weight. It also possibly uses a NW % in addition. If someone can start a post on this, it would be outstanding. And people can add what we really know, not rumors.

Remember the equation has to both help/protect the seller and buyer. Bid too high and people start selling to make money on items. Bid too low and less people sell.

It is only 1 bid and is an appropriate amount for such items. At least it is in the programs "mind", which is all that matters.

QBRanger February 10 2008 11:48 PM EST

Also,

One has to keep in mind if an item really undergoes a change to increase or decrease its value.

Examples:

The SoD recently received a mega boost. The availability of explosive shots. Now anyone can keep fully stocked and not have to use iron shots.

The VB, after its damage nerf, went way down in value. I know the value on insta's went from 75% to 50% overnight. It was an item hardly anyone wanted anymore. Before the nerf, it was the most sort after melee weapon.

The ELB, after the MsB came out went down in value quite a bit. Now every new archer wants the MsB, lowering the value of high NW ELB's quite a lot. Took a few months but it has happened.

The reason for this post is to show that past auctions, even 1 month ago, means less then the more recently ones. The value of a SoD is much more now then 3-6 months ago. So comparing old and new auctions, where CB does or does not bid, can a futile thing-in cases such as this.

QBJohnnywas February 11 2008 3:35 AM EST

If I've really wanted something in auctions I've paid for it. If I've been outbid it's 100% sure that I've felt I was going to get a bargain if I won.

And from a seller's point of view: mostly I'll do a BIN on my auctions, and it'll go for the BIN. But the times where it hasn't Mr Chairman has stepped in and I've gotten a decent price for an item. Which is much better than watching somebody else get a bargain price. From a seller's point of view....;)

Lord Bob February 13 2008 8:49 AM EST

"I look at it like a way to keep the number of rares down."

The much better way of doing that would be to significantly reduce the spawn rate of rare items. Right now I think there are way too many rares out there, so much that calling them "rare" is a misnomer.

QBOddBird February 13 2008 12:00 PM EST

I think we should change the terminology, then!

Usefuls vs. Worthlesses!

...After all, that's basically what it comes down to. We encourage players when they start -not- to buy armor from the store and to start looking in the Auctions for a cheap Katana/Exec immediately because the store weapons are worthless...

Besides, it isn't really rare if everyone who wants one can get it. *coughhackcough HoC reintroduction*

Lord Bob February 13 2008 12:19 PM EST

"We encourage players when they start -not- to buy armor from the store and to start looking in the Auctions for a cheap Katana/Exec immediately because the store weapons are worthless... "

Exactly, which is why I've long advocated changing the upgrade curve on weapons from the linear, constant amount it is now, and severely limiting the number of new rares that spawn. As it is now there are a massive amount of items in this game that are useless to the point that it is a waste of data on the server.
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