AoF boosts familiar DD (in Changelog)


AdminJonathan February 22 2008 2:41 PM EST

After I saw this thread, I checked the AoF/Junction announcement and saw that I never mentioned that when junctioned to a DD familiar, AoF boosts DD instead of skills.

Well, it does, and has since AoF could be junctioned.

Sorry for the confusion. :)

Talion [Axis of Evil] February 22 2008 2:45 PM EST

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!

QBOddBird February 22 2008 2:45 PM EST

Huh. That is supercool. :D

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2008 2:45 PM EST

WHAT?
Holy CRAP!

Umm uhh uhh wow.

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 2:46 PM EST

O... M... G...

This is MADNESS. Good information :)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] February 22 2008 2:47 PM EST

a feature then and not a bug. is the beleg's issue also a feature or a bug? http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002KHN

three4thsforsaken February 22 2008 2:47 PM EST

I like it. Alot. does it increase DD by the same percentage?

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 2:51 PM EST

Junction has gone from all time worst skill ever to right behind evasion. Woot.

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 2:57 PM EST

Did a little testing, Fought Godsend with AoF+10 on my junction minion, amf casted for 11%. Fought Godsend without AoF+10 on my junction minion, amf casted at 11%. Is it a little too early for April fools? -_-

QBOddBird February 22 2008 3:01 PM EST

dudemus - I hope so much that's a bug...

Talion [Axis of Evil] February 22 2008 3:02 PM EST

Indeed... I am 100% certain that the AoF increases the spell level, but I have seen no evidence that the AoF increases the spell effect.

QBOddBird February 22 2008 3:09 PM EST

Hm...with the biggest AoL and the biggest AoF (assuming unnamed,) that'd increase novice's 4.2M IF to 6.5M due to a 53% increase in DD...now that would be nice. O_O

Plus the extra amount if the items happened to be named. Closer to 6.6M.

AdminJonathan February 22 2008 3:12 PM EST

> I am 100% certain that the AoF increases the spell level, but I have seen no evidence that the AoF increases the spell effect.

they are both increased

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2008 4:07 PM EST

Ulord: remember it also increases AMF effect

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 4:08 PM EST

ah it makes sense. Thanks novice.

QBRanger February 22 2008 4:11 PM EST

Wait a minute.

You telling me that every plus an the AoF increases DD by 3%?

If so, can the AoF bonus be lowered to 2% like initially posted?

3% is quite powerful.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2008 4:12 PM EST

doesn't help a bit if you can't live through the (still) silly damage of the MsK

Atomicboy [The Knighthood] February 22 2008 4:13 PM EST

well amf is increased to the same amount. Non amf users may have some problems tho :)

AdminJonathan February 22 2008 4:15 PM EST

> You telling me that every plus an the AoF increases DD by 3%?

only on familiars.

QBRanger February 22 2008 4:18 PM EST

Novice,

Use you DBs, then we will see.

You may be surprised.

Yukk February 22 2008 4:19 PM EST

I guess this is another hit for the poor Halidon familiar.

Also, boosting AMF by 3% is about 47% short of being the equivalent of boosting DD by 3%. My 1.5M AMF throws back about 10% of the damage from 3M DDs out there.

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 4:46 PM EST

I may be biased but I think 3% boost is fair, only because of another overpowered item: mage shield. Again, I might be biased :)

QBsutekh137 February 22 2008 6:18 PM EST

Wow, holy crap I can make my familiar throw a fireball! I rented a +10 AoF:

Joe takes damage from his own Fireball (565075)!
Joe's Fireball hit Kano-san [857373]
Hubbell Man's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (798037)!
Hubbell Man's familiar's Fireball hit Kano-san [1704931]

Kano-san is a rather large JKF. It is clear his endurance is being entirely overwhelmed by my familiar. A later battle had the familiar hitting him for over 2 million.

Joe is a straight mage. He has a 0.37 AMF on him in this case. Hubbell Man's familiar has a 0.36 AMF on him. I knew his DD was more powerful (Mage Seeker Bow has been telling me that for some time), but I had no idea this was how powerful he was. His augmentation comes from:

-- Fully junctioned AGs
-- AoF at +10 (so I guess a whopping 30% just from that)
-- Amulets of Leadership in effect on lead minion, both are at +9.

Judging by the similar AMFs (0.37 and 0.36), the backlash can be used as very informative. The familiar is getting boost from the AoF, AoLs and AGs, but Joe is getting boost from AGs and a big CoI... Let me add up some numbers...

Joe:
Base DD Level: 4,341,702
CoI: +18 = 18%
AGs +15 = 15%
(that's it, AoL does not help him, since he is already in front)
TOTAL AUGMENTATION: 33%
TOTAL EFFECT: 5,774,463 (corresponds with training screen)

Familiar:
Base DD Level: 4,943,724
AGs: +15
AoL: +9
AoF: +10 = 30%
TOTAL AUGMENTATION: 54%
TOTAL EFFECT: 7,613,335 (wow, I will never catch that! *smile* The highest base attribute in the game is just shy of 5 million.)

Everything involved is named, so I am just canceling that all out.

Ratio of mage's total effect to familiar's total effect: 0.758467.
Ratio of mage's backlash to familiar's: 0.708081.

Second ratio is a bit lower because AMF on the familiar is a tad bit lower. That makes the reduction of his DD less, so the numbers appear to be pretty darn correct. Not sure why I thought they wouldn't be, but it is always good to crunch some ints. *smile*

I can understand the AoF idea -- since it can't aid the Junction itself, help aid what the junctioned familiar is doing. In this case, that's DD.

For the AoF effect, 3% per seems like a lot per +. HOWEVER, considering that such augmentation only makes the Familiar's Achilles Heels (plural) worse, maybe that's fair? Jacking up the DD on the familiar makes it more prone to insta-death via mage-seeker, and makes AMF backlash blows greater (I know that a higher DD yields greater results in the long run against AMF, but if the familiar is dead, he's dead...) In other words, it gets DAMN hard to protect such an offensive asset. AS is the only way, and there is enough DM out there to make that somewhat less palatable. Tough choices.

QBsutekh137 February 22 2008 6:25 PM EST

LOL!

Sorry, I had to share this:

Against King of Pain's team (now new and improved with RoBF!):

Joe's Fireball hit Stewart for no damage
Joe's Fireball hit Sting [657584], Andy [223998]
Hubbell Man's familiar's Fireball hit Stewart for no damage
Hubbell Man's familiar's Fireball hit Sting [640652], Andy [225389]
Hubbell Man's Decay hit Stewart [10]

Stewart has no AC, no MgS, and there is no AMF hlding back that 7 million+ effective fireball (though it is spread between three minions).

Zero damage.

Jonathan, we once sparred a bit on a thread about how much I disliked the flat-reduction items in the game... Can you kinda see why that might be? Even diluted three ways, a 7 million+ attribute being rendered entirely useless?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 22 2008 7:21 PM EST

Sute, can you do me a favour and check the AMF backlashes your familiar recives both with an without the AoF? I just want to check if the negative increase to AMF with the AoF is carrying over to a 1.00 Junctioned Familiar. ;)

QBsutekh137 February 22 2008 8:32 PM EST

With AoF:
AMF Effect = 0.36
Backlash (round 1) = 564,309

Without AoF:
AMF Effect = 0.36
Backlash (round 1) = 434,145

Same AMF effect. AMF does not junction through, apparently. So, less DD means less offensive power, but AMF effect is the same.

Really, no downside at all to putting an AoF on your junctioner. 30% DD enhancement? Amazing.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2008 9:33 PM EST

<gloat>6,903,043</gloat>

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 22 2008 9:50 PM EST

Gordon Gano's familiar's Cone of Cold hit heat [6440227]

Ulord[NK] February 22 2008 9:56 PM EST

That's pain :/ Did you pick up any new targets novice?
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