RBF, FB (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan March 3 2008 12:48 PM EST

RBF's magic-protection was reduced by 1/3.

FB's "friendly fire" was changed from 1/2 of normal damage to 1/3.

Last Gasp March 3 2008 12:50 PM EST


Ulord[NK] March 3 2008 12:53 PM EST

Finally the RoBF nerf. Hurraz :D

Hyrule Castle [Defy] March 3 2008 12:55 PM EST

in your face robf!

QBRanger March 3 2008 12:55 PM EST

And this solves the evasion/RBF problems how?

Ulord[NK] March 3 2008 12:58 PM EST

RoBF needs to survive 6 rounds of ranged to do any damage. Now that its magic reduction is nuked, surviving won't be so easy. As for evasion, if you can't hit the evasion minion on round 6 at 1.00 multiplier, you don't deserve to win. (hopefully you'll kill the single robf minion... don't know how much damage that does now)

QBOddBird March 3 2008 12:59 PM EST

Magic is so weakened that 1/3 will still be enough during ranged rounds, for sure.

However, little nerfs at a time, maybe soon we will see it at a good strength, not too weak and not overpowered. :)

AdminShade March 3 2008 1:04 PM EST

Doesn't affect me apparently, no just keep Shade out of the news :p

Little Anthony March 3 2008 1:25 PM EST

i almost thought that FB damage was up a bit :(

QBJohnnywas March 3 2008 1:29 PM EST

What about RBF's blocking of ex shot splash damage? Is that remaining the same?

Ulord[NK] March 3 2008 1:34 PM EST

I feel the FB strategy is still potent. I've never had much luck with heavily walled, defensive oriented strategy with strong amf anyways. Have no trouble picking off archers, toa users and DE focused CoC teams. My fight list is long and challenge bonus is non negative. Anyone feeling else using fb feeling their list cut?

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] March 3 2008 2:15 PM EST

"As for evasion, if you can't hit the evasion minion on round 6 at 1.00 multiplier, you don't deserve to win." -- Ulord

How can you make this claim? I'm less than 400k MPR right now, and I'm using my entire WA on a ranged weapon (melee is UC). I can't hit a lot of Evasion users (read: RoBF/Evasion kids) in ranged at all, nor can I in melee. If I'm filling my entire WA with one weapon and the + isn't enough to counter the evasions of people the same level as me... is that how it's supposed to work? Do the bonuses decay because you're supposed to not be able to hit at all?

I also have my UC at about 75 after all my gears boost it. And I miss the same minions for all 25 rounds of melee.

QBsutekh137 March 3 2008 2:17 PM EST

My list is not cut, and reducing the friendly fire might just get me Failure.

I think I already summarized well in the other changelog thread -- people I beat I still beat fairly easily, and people I can't beat are still way out of reach. I still see a lot of "no damage" against RoBF folks, and the ToE/PL/TSA crowd is, of course, unaffected by this particular change.

The FB friendly fire reduction is nice and appreciated. Once in a while it will give my SF one extra shot (though Joe still pretty much kills everyone else in one melee round).

Nice incremental changes, I suppose. But like I said in the other changelog thread too, stuff like a flat RoBF reduction still makes it Binary Blender. However, FB mages are still one facet of the rock/scissors/paper (or however many sides we have now...)

AdminJonathan March 3 2008 2:46 PM EST

> What about RBF's blocking of ex shot splash damage? Is that remaining the same?

No, that is also affected.

Frost March 3 2008 2:48 PM EST

can we get some sort of tank boost?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 3 2008 3:32 PM EST

mmm I lost a dear opponent of mine because of this :( I do stalemates now, time to up some AMF.

Flamey March 3 2008 3:40 PM EST

"Magic is so weakened that 1/3 will still be enough during ranged rounds, for sure. "

If I understand correctly, it isn't 1/3 of what it was before, it's 2/3 as it was reduced by 1/3.

Ulord[NK] March 3 2008 3:55 PM EST

To Colonel Custard:

What opponent are you fighting? Main issue with running a single uc minion is it's pretty much strictly worse than running an evasion tank. UC forces you to disperse exp into it quite heavily, making it impossible to have the heavy dex investment needed to hit. You are not hitting because your + is nullified and your dex is too low. You also cannot use a tattoo without foregoing the evasion (or only good part of uc). In my experience, as your uc gets higher, it tends to get fairly good + to hits and is easily boostable. I ran a single robf minion before and I get nailed by big ucs. Can't say much about the damage output but you get a highly accurate melee weapon that is free. Still, single minion monk team is probably the worst single tank setup barring anything stupid. The only redeeming quality is the sod and its splash damage but you will always do better using the sod on an evasion tank.

Now i'm sure you invested a lot of nw into monk gears and that's the type of character you want to play. Adding another minion becomes a necessity and you can become quite powerful after adding a second minion. That being said, a team with considerable devotion to evasion in the current game mode will put forth about 25% of their exp, boosted with AoF. To have a fair shot of hitting them, you'll need to put 40% of your exp into dex and find other ways to boost strength. That is impossible to achieve with a monk tank. There is an inherent incoherence in your tactics as well. Since all the uc experience is meaningless unless you last till melee, yet you have pretty much only a moderate amount of ac to last through ranged, you see that your battles don't really get to melee. Hence what you bought yourself is an overpriced evasion at 2/3 effectiveness that eats up armor slots. I sure do hope uc gets buffed...

Mikel March 3 2008 4:37 PM EST

This morning I was hitting all of the top evasion minions (not in the first round), now I'm not hitting them again. Did you change Evasion again when you changed the RoBF?

Black Sophist and Conundrum are all whiffs now in Ranged and Melee

Mikel March 3 2008 4:41 PM EST

Take part of that back.
I can hit Black Sophist in the very last round of Ranged only.

Mikel March 3 2008 4:47 PM EST

Oh well back to ToA.

AdminJonathan March 3 2008 5:03 PM EST

> Did you change Evasion again when you changed the RoBF?


Cube March 4 2008 4:16 AM EST

Wouldn't it be simpler to simply apply the ranged penalty after every other type of damage reduction? Or was this meant to buff the ToE and RoBf?

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] March 4 2008 4:39 AM EST


What I should have pointed out is this: you say that one doesnt "deserve to" win if one can't hit them in round 6 of ranged, or at any other time when the evasion multiplier is down to 1.00. Consider this: about 50% of my exp is invested in UC or DX. I also have boosting gears on that help out quite a bit. Now, if a character my MPR invests that much XP into Evasion, assuming reasonable Elvens equipped, his defensive DX granted by evasion would be more than double my offensive DX, and I don't doubt that the negative PTH would be at least 150% of my UC effect. Why is it that an equal XP investment should have me come out with negative 30 to 50 or so PTH and a 2:1 dex disadvantage? Nothing else in the game is like that.
Relative to each other, UC is quite underpowered and Evasion is quite overpowered. UC is underpowered, so let's compare Evasion to something "normal", like tanks with weapons, to see if the discrepancy is all at the UC end of it or not. Standard tanks have been complaining for a long time about having a similar problem as I with the disproportionate nature of this skill.
Theoretically, you'll be able to hit if you deserve to, and you won't if you don't... But to say that that is the actual case right now is denying that there's anything wrong with the example I gave above.
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