Can we fix the realive regen of the TSA? (in General)


QBRanger March 8 2008 5:10 PM EST

Here is some of my battle with Freed: Consternation is his minion.

Cloudscape sliced into Consternation [32053]
Cloudscape hacked Consternation [37917]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [42954]

Consternation regenerated 83,528 HP

Cloudscape carved into Consternation [40100]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [34394]

Consternation regenerated 83,528 HP

Cloudscape hacked Consternation [36174]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [32203]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [39604]

Consternation regenerated 83,528 HP

Cloudscape hacked Consternation [30245]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [41732]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [29006]

Consternation regenerated 83,528 HP

Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [30105]
Cloudscape's vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [39278]

Consternation regenerated 83,528 HP

Thats the last 5 rounds. There were more like that.

All the time, The Grid, with its massive MH, just stood there doing nada.

Jon, can you make it that if it is the last minion alive on the other character, all yours attacks.

I did get 1 "stalemate" from this feature and were close a few more times. I know it is a minor problem but it is annoying.

Obscurans March 8 2008 5:16 PM EST

Nemesis scratched Wall of Souls [887]
Clotho mistimed his attack at Wall of Souls
Atropos eviscerated Wall of Souls [11386]
Atropos dislimbed Wall of Souls [8512]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Priest of the Cult [97604]
Priest of the Cult swung wildly at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP
R.I.P. Wall of Souls

Nemesis glanced off of Priest of the Cult [997]
Clotho stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Atropos scratched Priest of the Cult [10695]
Lachesis's Decay hit Priest of the Cult [47836]
Priest of the Cult's blow was dodged by Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Clotho mistimed his attack at Priest of the Cult
Atropos carved into Priest of the Cult [8814]
Lachesis's Decay hit Priest of the Cult [24391]
Priest of the Cult swung wildly at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis mistimed his attack at Priest of the Cult
Clotho swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Atropos sliced into Priest of the Cult [12750]
Atropos carved into Priest of the Cult [13857]
Lachesis's Decay hit Priest of the Cult [3772]
Priest of the Cult mistimed his attack at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Clotho's blow was dodged by Priest of the Cult
Atropos chopped Priest of the Cult [11180]
Lachesis's Decay hit Priest of the Cult [1176]
Priest of the Cult's blow was dodged by Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Clotho stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Atropos carved into Priest of the Cult [9999]
Atropos dislimbed Priest of the Cult [9749]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [77444]
Priest of the Cult swung wildly at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis mistimed his attack at Priest of the Cult
Clotho swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Atropos decapitated Priest of the Cult [9922]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [38722]
Priest of the Cult stumbled swinging at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis eviscerated Priest of the Cult [1457]
Nemesis cries "Your hubris is amusing!"
Clotho stumbled swinging at Slayer of Infidels
Atropos's blow was dodged by Slayer of Infidels
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [19361]
Priest of the Cult stumbled swinging at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Clotho swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Atropos eviscerated Priest of the Cult [11597]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [9680]
Priest of the Cult stumbled swinging at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis hacked Priest of the Cult [1063]
Clotho swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Atropos dislimbed Priest of the Cult [8498]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [4840]
Priest of the Cult mistimed his attack at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis carved into Priest of the Cult [1265]
Clotho swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Atropos eviscerated Priest of the Cult [10680]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [2420]
Priest of the Cult's blow was dodged by Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Clotho stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Atropos decapitated Priest of the Cult [9357]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [1210]
Priest of the Cult's blow was dodged by Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Clotho stumbled swinging at Priest of the Cult
Atropos dislimbed Priest of the Cult [11347]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [605]
Priest of the Cult's blow was dodged by Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis swung wildly at Priest of the Cult
Clotho's blow was dodged by Priest of the Cult
Atropos eviscerated Priest of the Cult [12489]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [303]
Priest of the Cult mistimed his attack at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis mistimed his attack at Priest of the Cult
Clotho mistimed his attack at Priest of the Cult
Atropos dislimbed Priest of the Cult [8594]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [151]
Priest of the Cult swung wildly at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP

Nemesis hacked Priest of the Cult [1145]
Clotho's blow was dodged by Priest of the Cult
Atropos decapitated Priest of the Cult [10923]
Atropos decapitated Priest of the Cult [9847]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"
Lachesis's Decay hit Slayer of Infidels [76]
Priest of the Cult stumbled swinging at Nemesis
Priest of the Cult regenerated 9,760 HP
R.I.P. Priest of the Cult

Nemesis swung wildly at Slayer of Infidels
Clotho mistimed his attack at Slayer of Infidels
Atropos dislimbed Slayer of Infidels [11174]
Atropos cries "Your fate is nigh!"

R.I.P. Slayer of Infidels

This is even better

QBsutekh137 March 8 2008 5:20 PM EST

No thanks! If all mine attack, I might draw due FB splash killing my team (as opposed to a win if the TSA didn't bring it back)! So, nope! Unless you know that last minion has regenerative effect kicking in, in which case, shoot all barrels. (that might be hard to figure, though, during the battle dynamics...)

It's a tough nut.

Overall, I would rather that all resurrection were just done away with altogether, but that has never been the case. Especially since resurrection aids walls and tanks more than mages... Sure, there are pure mages that can "hide" in death, but it is more likely a regenerative PL wall/battery or a tank using VA. I'd rather none of them come back. Never could understand why Jonathan couldn't just give it to the attacker in that case. But I guess that is a whole bucket of worms too... There are always going to be edged effects in battles where attacks from both sides are pseudo-simultaneous.

QBRanger March 8 2008 6:02 PM EST

Sut,

Even if FB splash kills all your minions, your FB mage casting the FB would still live.

Unless you mean that the FB will kill the team and AMF would kill your mage. But how often would that happen? In round 7, AMF killing your mage.

QBsutekh137 March 8 2008 6:35 PM EST

Let's just say it has happened. *smile* I know it for a fact. You are right, it is a combo splash/AMF thing. The AMF is actually enough. If you have two DD throwers, and they BOTH kill themselves trying to make sure the target is dead (even when they didn't have to), then that seems a disservice. FB splash just accentuates the issue.

There are a lot of different angles involved, and I have never liked the resurrection. But the bottom line it:

Resurrection vs. same-time battles.

Same time battles _necessitate_ resurrection. But that gives us the scenarios you (and I) mention.

But making the attacking team throw all barrels if there is only one minion left means a couple things:

-- That's not really a "same-time" battle (attacker knows more than the defender, i.e., knowing that last guy might get back up).
-- Folks who do self-hurting (like AMF or FB backlash) activities are at a disadvantage: They probably would WANT to wait to see if that last guy gets back up, and take their chances while doing so.

How do you make policy for an edge effect?

QBRanger March 8 2008 6:39 PM EST

Sut,

I do see your point.

If you fix it for me, you worsen it for you and others.

I guess this falls into the lose-lose situation where someone gets the bad side.

NP, I will rescind my request.

QBsutekh137 March 8 2008 6:51 PM EST

Don't do that! *smile* It is in the "damned either way" situation that Jonathan seems to shine...

But then again, he has acknowledged this issue before and has not had a clear way 'round it.

I do understand your frustration. It is almost enough to wish for an attacker advantage. But since this game involves a lot of defending, by nature, that is probably not the cause to pursue...or is it? *devilish grin*

Lord Bob March 8 2008 6:58 PM EST

I had this issue before as some might recall, where my main tank stood there and watched as my weak enchanters kept barely killing a TSA wearer and letting him revive. It gave me a lot of stalemates. I'd like to see it fixed.

three4thsforsaken March 8 2008 7:55 PM EST

I feel kind dumb... but what's happening? What is broken?

Mikel March 8 2008 8:01 PM EST

what is happening is:
he's barely killing the minion, and because of that, his tank doesn't swing because it thinks that it's dead. But at the end of the round, the regen brings him back and starts the process over again until you can kill him for more than he can regenerate as well.

Soxjr March 8 2008 8:04 PM EST

What is happening 3/4th is that the minion basically seems dead so rangers tank doesn't attack at all, but in the same round the dead minion gets hp back from regenerating ... So basically Cloudscape hits it and kills it. but not by more than 83,528 hp. so it gets hp's back.. but rangers tank which has a mh that could blow the regening minion away stands there and does nothing because it thinks the minion is dead. :) hope that explains it

Ancient Anubis March 8 2008 8:35 PM EST

i know defense works on killing each minion depending on its order eg elbs hit first minion and mm hits last minion but is there anyway to work it that when attacking the minion with the strongest blow is the first to deliver its blow in all situations then followed in order of strength by its fellow minions.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 8 2008 8:38 PM EST

the front minion hits first then the next and so on.

three4thsforsaken March 8 2008 8:41 PM EST

Oh, I see. That is kind of annoying. 200 million NW isn't good if the minion isn't smart enough to use it properly. You should take another look at his resume.

Flamey March 8 2008 8:50 PM EST

"Oh, I see. That is kind of annoying. 200 million NW isn't good if the minion isn't smart enough to use it properly. You should take another look at his resume."

Lol.

Ancient Anubis March 8 2008 8:52 PM EST

i know that nem i'm saying redo it so instead of order deciding attack order base it on stregth of hit

QBsutekh137 March 9 2008 12:24 PM EDT

AA, interesting idea, but strength of hit is quite hard to calculate... Jonathan would have to basically run each round "behind the scenes" first and then see which blow was biggest -- because DD varies as do physical blows, especially depending on target.

And even then, as an FB mage I wouldn't like it if my FB was deemed the biggest, I fired, and killed my team with AMF killing the mage himself. I would get a draw where I might have had a win...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 9 2008 12:26 PM EDT

i am not sure how the code works, but it would seem fairly simple to just add a if hp is < or = 0 then regen is off.

QBsutekh137 March 9 2008 12:47 PM EDT

Then that wouldn't be fair in the simultaneous fight motif battles use.

Remember, attacker does not "go first"... Fight occur simultaneously. In other words, the defender still gets to have all that is supposed to happen, happen, and it would appear the TSA regn is intertwined with that.

Then again, I'm not sure why the TSA-wearing minion couldn't still do all of its "stuff" and then simply not regen...but as you say, maybe the programming is more complex than that...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 9 2008 1:06 PM EDT

it does seem like deja vu, or that we have had this discussion before. if i am correct, jon's response was that any fix was going to be worse than what was going on now though. so i would say it must be much more complex than what we all think.

QBsutekh137 March 9 2008 1:19 PM EDT

Indeed, this conversation has happened before, with Jon involved...

Obscurans March 9 2008 1:26 PM EDT

It's even easier if the regen code applied *before* the round, then HP after the round is capped at the HP right before the regen occurred.

Put make VA leech add to that cap and then that's accounted for.

Basically:

save the HP before a round
add any regen from TSA to current HP
take damage from current HP
add any leech from VA to both current HP and saved HP
after round, if HP > saved HP cap it at saved HP
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