Is encumbrance unfair? (in General)


Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 12:50 AM EDT

Well I don't find It fair that a Decay user like me can't have a 0.00001 encumbrance level and that a player that is using a strategy like QBNovice has may have 208 millions NW items equipped without having any encumbrance penalty. That makes him able to win against players that are 8 times his mpr. IMO familiar should get the penalty has a minion gets it. Or I don't see the reason of adding the encumbrance in the game.

TheHatchetman May 28 2008 12:55 AM EDT

Familiar gets the "unable to tweak and customize" penalty, along with the "no skill or ED/EO" penalty... Encumbrance would be a bit unfair

Godpanda May 28 2008 12:58 AM EDT

Ummmmm.... Why not just delete the familiar from the game then?! Are you serious? Look at it from a realistic point of view. A SMALL tattoo is 20 mil and takes a hefy chunk from any minion's encumbrance. I have a 60 million tattoo and if I went familiar it'd be instant full encumbrance. Sorry. I'd rather have familiar still be usable.

three4thsforsaken May 28 2008 1:01 AM EDT

familars get so many problems that it's nice that they got a little boost IMO

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:02 AM EDT

Still I rather have 208 millions NW items without penalty (when others can't, so I'm sure to mostly the only one with such a NW) then a little 200k mpr EO, and I thought encumbrance was implanted to balance players who use usd and players who don't use it. I don't see any balance here.

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:04 AM EDT

So that means I could get my Familiar 477 (or is it 377) AC and It would still be fine?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 28 2008 1:05 AM EDT

yes, but good luck doing that. Familiars get less slots than regular minions.

three4thsforsaken May 28 2008 1:06 AM EDT

this is the only way in the game to avoid enc. However it is difficult to abuse, DBs is probably the only way to maximize it's effectiveness. However it's only a major benefit in the short run. In the end the fact that a familiar can't train evasion always keeps it at bay at the higher ups.

Also, isn't the junction for DBs still broken in the extra ranged round?

Ultimately if there is a problem, it's in the boostable nature of DBs, not enc. You wouldn't be complaining about a 208 million MS would you?

three4thsforsaken May 28 2008 1:09 AM EDT

477 AC on a familiar is as broken as a +96 MgS

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:16 AM EDT

I'm complaining about the fact that I can't afford being over my encumbrance max, and that players who used usd will all use that strat at the end to get around the encumbrance. So there wont be any change about before and after it and also familiar may stop the negative effects of items. It isn't a buff for the familiar, it's just a huge nerf of all the other thing in the game.

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:20 AM EDT

You can get 100% challenge bonus until a really high mpr from the start, wich is mostly impossible with any other strategy.

iBananco [Blue Army] May 28 2008 1:21 AM EDT

"Ummmmm.... Why not just delete the familiar from the game then?! Are you serious? Look at it from a realistic point of view. A SMALL tattoo is 20 mil and takes a hefy chunk from any minion's encumbrance. I have a 60 million tattoo and if I went familiar it'd be instant full encumbrance. Sorry. I'd rather have familiar still be usable."
Since when do familiars eat encumbrance?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 28 2008 1:21 AM EDT

If you aren't getting 100% cb from almost the very start then you are doing something wrong.

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:22 AM EDT

And I saw players complaining about the ROBF when the new version came out because they were losing to much lower MPR players, well it's the same thing here, well I think unless I'm missing something.

three4thsforsaken May 28 2008 1:24 AM EDT

I unfortunately cannot see a CB world dominated by USD familiar teams.

lostling May 28 2008 1:28 AM EDT

you heard of the mageseeker? not to mention DM? *shrug* look at it how you will but familiars get pwned by those stuff... its only a slight boost over tanks

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:30 AM EDT

Yeah well sorry, it's true I'm wrong, since I started playing cb It was always normal to see someone who had 120k mpr with a 180 millions score. Winning against 800k mpr, not because their strategy are bad or they are not playing anymore, only because of one item...

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:31 AM EDT

1,8millions*

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 28 2008 1:32 AM EDT

Thats not all that uncommon at all. On my first day with this ncb i was fighting a 1.2 mil mpr char.

j'bob May 28 2008 1:33 AM EDT

I might be waaaay off base and I'm certainly not speaking for novice, but his NW of 208 mil doesn't necessarilly include ONLY what he has equipped. The characters NW is a total of everything they have in their inventory as well. You'll have to ask him to know for sure.
Something like this shouldn't be discussed using examples unless we're sure we're using the examples correctly.

lostling May 28 2008 1:33 AM EDT

1.9mill actually

Net Worth: $208,828,301

might also be the cause

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:38 AM EDT

Well in one day I'm pretty sure you can't get over 100k mpr, and I don't really think that a character under 100k mpr may defeat someone with 1,2 millions mpr unless this player as only passive skill trained.

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, I knew that by posting this majority would go against my opinion, only thought that maybe someone would see the problem I see.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 28 2008 1:39 AM EDT

If you look at my graph you would see that I hit 200k on the first day.

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:41 AM EDT

You bought the BA cap before starting it?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 28 2008 1:42 AM EDT

There really isn't any other way to get that high. Its not like it was very expensive, about 120k and 6 days to do.

j'bob May 28 2008 1:43 AM EDT

um, we still don't know how much of that 208mil novice actually has equipped...

Sickone May 28 2008 1:43 AM EDT

An Ice Familiar lvl 1,132,242 owned by QBnovice (The Shark Tank) - estimated around 20 mil NW

DB : Fuzzy Blue Slippers [0] (+262) - $169,346,817
AoF : Whatsit [0] (+13) - $8,951,792
NSC : Ih8amf [0] (+15) - $7,968,016
HoC : A Freak Magnet [-5] (+12) - $2,019,925
Named 2007 CB T-shirt - $1,000
= $188,287,550 equipped... plus the tat NW... just about right on the 208 mil total NW.

Trained : Junction (most likely to 1.00 or above), AMF, AS - none of them subject to encumbrance.

j'bob May 28 2008 1:44 AM EDT

thanks sick. i wasn't arguing for or against, i just like to know whats what... and wasn't inclined to look it all up myself. :D

Sickone May 28 2008 1:44 AM EDT

The obvious solution ?
Also apply encumbrance to Junction too, not just Evasion.
Problem solved.

Drama [Just for fun] May 28 2008 1:44 AM EDT

Well the DBs are at 169,346,817 NW, my cap is 3,432,274, that is only 50 times less.

j'bob May 28 2008 1:48 AM EDT

it does appear to be a bit loop hole-ish...
/me starts thinking of HF and Jiggy strats...

lostling May 28 2008 1:54 AM EDT

well... it only helps at the beginning ... because at the later stages Displacement Boots do not really help much... either that or make Displacement Boot's evasion affected by enc i guess... no idea... so far the only item i see that would can be abused is Displacement Boots

Sickone May 28 2008 1:54 AM EDT

"If you look at my graph you would see that I hit 200k on the first day. "

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

;)

Sacredpeanut May 28 2008 1:56 AM EDT

Fuzzy Blue Slippers [0] (+262) worth $169,346,817 owned by QBnovice (The Shark Tank)

I think that the huge DB's are the problem more so than Junctioned minion not being affected by encumbrance.

I assume everyone on his fight list is a tank that can't hit either the minion or the familiar. Making junctioned familiars affected by encumbrance won't solve the problem, I imagine novice could just swap out the familiar for an RBF and still achieve the same results.

Ridiculously large DB's equipped on small characters is the problem IMO.

lostling May 28 2008 1:57 AM EDT

i believe he is talking about the score... which is way way pwning yours

Sickone May 28 2008 2:18 AM EDT

"I assume everyone on his fight list is a tank that can't hit either the minion or the familiar. Making junctioned familiars affected by encumbrance won't solve the problem, I imagine novice could just swap out the familiar for an RBF and still achieve the same results."

Wrong. His minion gets hit.

Evasion is affected by encumbrance, and his encumbrance on the minion is most certainly at max.
This means his MINION has either 0 or 1 Evasion, while the familiar gets 272 (or at least 271) effect evasion (named +262 boots).
And that's because FAMILIARS are not affected by encumbrance at all... and while Junction isn't affected by encumbrance yet, the boot's "base" effect gets transfered to the familiar fully.

Now, no idea on what planet you live, but 271/272 evasion on a familiar with raised HP from the AS is nothing to sneer at... and the huge AoF/NSC means he also deals significant amounts of damage too.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 28 2008 2:20 AM EDT

SP: actually dbs are effected by encumbrance, my Junction minion has a total evasion of 3 I think.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] May 28 2008 2:40 AM EDT

I bow to the Nov for his all knowing use of Junctions/Aof/DB/Familiar strats... More complaints are always welcome... now if only I could train 800k amf and use some PL and hp I could kill his Familiar with Amf....

QBOddBird May 28 2008 2:46 AM EDT

"I'm complaining about the fact that I can't afford being over my encumbrance max, and that players who used usd will all use that strat at the end to get around the encumbrance. So there wont be any change about before and after it and also familiar may stop the negative effects of items. It isn't a buff for the familiar, it's just a huge nerf of all the other thing in the game."

So let me get this right. USD players will take over the game with familiars? Like the Halidon? *snorts* or are only certain familiars overpowered?


"You can get 100% challenge bonus until a really high mpr from the start, wich is mostly impossible with any other strategy. "

If you don't get 100% challenge bonus until a really high MPR from the start - and everyone with a decent strategy manages to pull this off by 50k MPR at the latest - then you really should consider asking for strategy help. It is no large feat to have 600k, 700k score at 200k MPR - that's why they call it 'score inflation.'


There's no problem here. SF, IF, FF....these guys can't wear a CoI, a TSA, go high AC. They can't change their DD ratio to HP - the HP amount is set, and you'll notice lots of players with familiars using AS because there is just not enough. And btw, using that AoF increases AMF's effect against them, so they trade that extra damage they do for extra backlash against what little HP they have. The one advantage that they get is that for the few items they can use, there's no encumbrance. (well, DBs use Evasion, so they are still encumberable. But the familiar itself isn't crippled.)

But I only mentioned the SF, IF, and FF. There are two other familiars! The JKF and Halidon! If these ever become a threat, let me know. I mean, really...

Encumbrance helps to stop players MAINLY from using oversized items on individual minions - ginormous weapons on small tanks, full 400 AC on a bloodlust tank, 200 mil MH with +300 DBs. How you can relate that to familiars - which only can grow at a set rate - I just don't know.

lostling May 28 2008 2:58 AM EDT

JKF ... Z OMG over powered to the max... i mean really .... it trains... HP!
STR!
DEX!
UC!
and last but not the least
endurance!

i mean like seriously... it pwns magic familiars with like 25% hp and 100% DD...

*enough said*

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 28 2008 5:15 AM EDT

Yeah I hate encumbrance too, I really don't like the fact that tanks can no longer equip 500mil worth of weapons without having to worry about penalties. I hate the fact that encumbrance ment the end of huge weapons where no defense is against. I mean those tanks kept on spending cash, perfecting there strat, upping there weapons to unbelievable heights and now they can't anymore! They have to choose now between big ranged, big melee or ranged and melee but smaller of both! No sir I don't like it. This choice is invented by communists!

No we now have to choose a weapon and fit a strat to match! No fair! I want up my weapons to uber and zomg overpowered!

Ow and now serious, familiars are most likely the weakest link in the chain, you can't train them specifically. So they need a lot of NW to support them.

Wizard'sFirstRule May 29 2008 5:59 PM EDT

Henk Bres (The wrong Mexican - if I remember your sig correctly), are you being sarcastic?

QBRanger May 29 2008 7:23 PM EDT

EvAsIoN RuLeS!!!!!!!

Pheather May 29 2008 7:29 PM EDT

x1.5,1.4,1.3,1.2,1.2

QBOddBird May 29 2008 7:41 PM EDT

PK, you can't tell if he is or not?

Wizard'sFirstRule May 29 2008 7:43 PM EDT

rhtorical questions :P

Drama [Just for fun] May 29 2008 8:32 PM EDT

But why did decay take the biggest nerf of all with this change?

When I started my new character, I did not know that decay was reduce to no damage if you were getting over your allowed nw but maybe I would have tried something else.

There's only 2 reason I can find.

1: To prevent big walls to use a base decay

or

2: It was to complicated to make a reduction of the decay damage.

Please light my path.
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