Score system must need a re-working. (in General)

QBOddBird June 30 2008 3:55 PM EDT

Score doesn't appear to accrue nearly enough at higher levels - just look at Koyaanisqatsi during this (grrr) free retrain period. His character could auto-retire at that ratio, and all it takes is someone with a little less MPR beating him.

Score has been outpaced by PR for a while, and now by MPR as well....does the system need a re-work?

winner winner June 30 2008 4:00 PM EDT

Increasing score would also help with the dead zone.

AdminNightStrike June 30 2008 4:07 PM EDT

I think that the idea is to lessen PR instead of increasing score. If you look at a lot of changes in the past few months, they have all been geared towards reducing USD -> CBD -> PR. For instance, ENC and all the AC nerfs.

The last few big money pits for giant sized PR values are tattoos, weapons, and DB.

Tattoos are probably the biggest overall offender of skyrocketing PR. If you look at my character, for instance, could get back under the WA, then my PR would be about 500k or so over my MPR.

00 June 30 2008 4:10 PM EDT

Good call SK.

QBRanger June 30 2008 4:12 PM EDT

I also believe that lowering the WA by 1/2 is a large factor as well.

A lot of us have to have the + on the weapon to hit evasion. That causes an increase in NW---> increased PR.

QBOddBird June 30 2008 4:13 PM EDT

That is a good idea, Nightstrike, but as of late there isn't even as much score generated as the #1 MPR. It seems as though it simply is not generated quickly enough to keep up with skyrocketing MPR and PR.

Tchoob June 30 2008 4:41 PM EDT

I think it is too easy to drain score from a character you can beat. Maybe score reward should be affected by challenge bonus (if it's positive)? Maybe score loss should be affected by opponents challenge bonus (if it's negative)? That should both bring more score to the system and prevent the score leakage, while at the same time further rewarding beating a stronger opponent.

Sickone June 30 2008 5:24 PM EDT

Like I said in an older thread started by me, problem is with "temporary" characters draining score way above (M)PR, then retiring before that score can be unloaded.
That, combined with a much-too-slow score generation (compared to just moving it around) creates the situation we see now.

IMHO, the "top performing" characters should have nearly double score compared to their PRs, or at least compared to their MPRs.
You can either do that by "recycling" scores locked on retired characters (quick and dirty solution), by having retired chars able to be fought (adds a lot more targets, but they're fake - at least the score moves naturally), or last but not least feasable, by heavily increasing score gains (in case of similar-sized characters fighting eachother) while keeping score drains similar to what we have now.

Solare June 30 2008 5:35 PM EDT

Why not create 'cpu'-like targets, that retain the same score and have built teams. These teams obviously would require skill and power to defeat. And by defeating these teams successively, one would be able to maintain a score that better fits them.
Though technically this may be difficult to achieve, it would maintain a better balance of scores, at least in theory.

AdminQBVerifex June 30 2008 5:40 PM EDT

I'm just concerned about my encumbrance.. I mean really.. I have no weapon (I'm UC) still I'm over my limit.. did the UC encumbrance limit get lowered recently or am I just doing it wrong?

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] June 30 2008 6:08 PM EDT

Mo' sco' fo'sho.

Verifex: it looks to me like UC encumbrance is doing fine. Remember, though: DX doesn't add any ENC room, and you don't have any HP on that minion.

Cube June 30 2008 6:27 PM EDT

Scores when you are just starting like below 10k MPR it's really hard to keep up with the challenge bonus. I don't know why, but maybe that part could use some help too.

Sickone July 1 2008 8:04 AM EDT

Highest in-game score under 3 mil now :))

Cube July 1 2008 8:06 AM EDT

And thanks to Maximus my 30k MPR character has 2 mil Score.

Tchoob July 1 2008 8:08 AM EDT

And it's dropping dramatically fast. I'm playing less than 3 weeks, and I can remember 4M high scores.
Ranger's history graph is probably the most drastic example - score graph is a near-vertical line.

Cube July 1 2008 8:14 AM EDT

Could it be that the massive upsets caused by the free retrain lower the over all score of the characters in the game?

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 9:12 AM EDT

"Could it be that the massive upsets caused by the free retrain lower the over all score of the characters in the game? "

Yes. Since the free retrain started, my challenge bonus has dropped like a lead balloon, and I've gained much in MPR... Not too long ago (right before the retrain), my char boasted 2.55-2,6m score at nearly any given time... Now, not so much... I'm having trouble staying above 1.4m... By the end of the week, I'm expecting to have 2.1m or less score...

I've sited newer chars fighting up as a cause in the score drop, and more often, referenced it as the problem with the deadzone. Also pointed out that a buncha retrained dudes, trying to avoid clan farmage, or people retraining to silly strats that are effective against only one or two players above them while easily being destroyed by all those below would throw this issue into hyper-speed...

Almost like I saw it coming... :P

winner winner July 1 2008 9:16 AM EDT

you're having trouble staying above 1.4m score?

Suqataqus July 1 2008 9:56 AM EDT

It is a little odd that up until ~2.2m score, I maintained a 100% challenge bonus, and the second I got into the 2m range, the majority of possible opponents ended up being double my MPR, or more. Every day my challenge bonus drops because I continue to grow but the possible opponents with higher score tend to be significantly more powerful.

It does seem like something should be reworked when somebody with 4m MPR is under 3m score when people can get into (and stay) in the 2m score with only 700k-800k MPR.

Tchoob July 1 2008 10:11 AM EDT

Actually it seems that everyone in this game is gravitating towards 2.1-2.2M score. There are so many people on this score level with different levels of MPR. The nature of score right now is that if you are losing to one person, you're score gets drained not only by that person, but also by all the people that can beat that person. To keep your score you need to either beat people that are bigger than you in terms of score, or be unbeatable by anyone in the game. If there is at least one person in this game beating you, you're score will sooner or later drop to the equilibrium point, which right now seems to be around 2.1-2.2M score.

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 10:11 AM EDT

2.4m* sorry :P

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] July 1 2008 1:41 PM EDT

Well, Evafer, my silly little team, has sat at 2.1m Score since before the retrain and hasn't really left it. Of course, I'm fighting people half my MPR with the same score but you see my issue. I'm just wondering if I'll ever PASS 2.1m Score after watching what happened to Ranger.

Sickone July 1 2008 3:14 PM EDT

I'm having no problems hovering at around 2.3-2.4 mil score... heck, I've been hovering around and above 2 mil for so long I can barely remember when it was... I would have probably grown in score even further if I would have stuck with the "Greater Fireball Familiar" strategy, but I said what the heck, and swapped to the current "Greater Halidon Familiar" strategy.
Sure, the huge recent rental helped a lot in the past couple of hours, but it wasn't going that bad before either.

three4thsforsaken July 1 2008 3:19 PM EDT

dead zone THIS BIG *spreads arms* :(

Tyriel [123456789] July 1 2008 3:24 PM EDT

I'm glad I'm not the only person whose challenge bonus is dropping fast.

I think my hope of getting into 6/20 is basically shot at this point...

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 3:25 PM EDT

Correction, it is currently *this* big... *spreads his longer arms*

At this rate, it'll be bigger at the end of the week than the arm-spreading ability of myself and Nemerizt combined! :o

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] July 1 2008 7:43 PM EDT

I think if we form a chain, standing fingertip to fingertip, we can form half of the dead zone... o.o

j'bob July 1 2008 7:54 PM EDT

/me scratches head...
6'6" plus... how tall is nem?

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 7:58 PM EDT

hehe, a general rule of thumb is that someone's arm span is usually pretty close to their height... However, I'm 6'6" with a 7'1" armspan :P

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 7:58 PM EDT

and nem is 8'12" ^_^

King July 1 2008 8:03 PM EDT

It's mostly chars specialized in beating a specific setup dragging others down then getting farmed by people even lower than them. The amount of fights BA limits people to also makes it easier for 8/20 and under to steal from the 6-7/20 group(my previous char was attacked 200 times more a day than it challenged, given it was one of the problematic specialized chars). Score drain seems to go (neutral)Vets out of N*B bonus -> Specialized chars -> New Chars.

I think the amount of score lost per fight should be reduced a little and gain from fighting below you should be raised or that it should be on a curve similar to how BA regen is calculated with characters in the different regens having different gain/loss ratios.

TheHatchetman July 1 2008 10:15 PM EDT

found a temporary fix! I was able to get my score back to where it was before the retrain... Something tells me it won't last long though >.<

Wizard'sFirstRule July 1 2008 11:21 PM EDT

getting it from LA is not fixing the problem. :P

TheHatchetman July 2 2008 1:17 AM EDT

Good point PK... umm yeah... score is broken :P

Wizard'sFirstRule July 2 2008 1:40 AM EDT

no one can ever beat LA. you made that screenshot up.
/me refuse to believe hatch beat LA.

Sickone July 2 2008 5:49 AM EDT

Hatch beats LA, I beat Hatch, therefore it follows that... LA beats me ? :))

TheHatchetman July 4 2008 12:39 PM EDT

This is all, of course, if you don't want to give score a much smaller role and PR/MPR a much larger one in figuring rewards. Perhaps as the quick fix, increasing the score of everyone in the game would help. and to help prevent this from happening again, increase the score gained from fightling lower than yourself, and slightly decrease the score lost when losing to somebody of lower score...

With any luck, even many of those in 6/20 will be quite capable of double-digit challenge bonus at many times. though, too much increase to score gives LA and Ranger 100% CB eventually (not exactly the desired end result from this scenario :P

Cuz as it stands now, from 1.7m MPR to 2.45m MPR, you're battling against ever-increasing penalties... By the end of the free retrain week that first number will likely be down to 1.6m MPR... The fact that an 800k MPR char beating up on a next to naked 600k MPR char is capable of getting similar, if not better rewards than when my 1.63m MPR char took down LA's fully-trained, fully-equipped (not counting a tat) 4.08m MR char is just nuts*...

*not sure what the end result in the rewards was, though I am well aware my base was higher :P

Sickone July 4 2008 12:41 PM EDT

Also, there's another thing to take into account... the MPR curve was designed with a variable level XP value... now ALL level values are a flat 12 XP per level... so the current MPR calculation doesn't really make all that much sense, or does it ?

TheHatchetman July 4 2008 1:41 PM EDT

It does, as it goes by XP trained. the only things that changed within the characters was how that XP translated to levels.

TheHatchetman July 4 2008 2:23 PM EDT

wait! I think I fixed it... my score is now almost back to where it was before the free retrain again... not farming LA or anything either 0=)

Sickone July 5 2008 4:31 AM EDT

"It does, as it goes by XP trained. the only things that changed within the characters was how that XP translated to levels. "

Well, close, but not quite.
For instance, you had a certain percentage difference of levels between certain PR or MPR players, but now that percentage difference can be greater (since the one higher up got percentually more levels), and because of the way armour PR weights get calculated, that's only amplified when you use a stat-boosting armour piece.

Wizard'sFirstRule July 5 2008 5:40 AM EDT

can we have something like a monthly recalibration of score? so at like the first of each month cache flush, score get increased (or decreased) proportionally so that total score = total PR (or 1.5x MPR)?

Cube July 5 2008 6:43 AM EDT

^That actually sounds like a really good idea to me, even weekly.

Sickone July 5 2008 7:47 AM EDT

Periodic recalibration so that total score = some constant * total PR (for active characters only) really does sound like a good idea.
However, it's the constant's value I'm actually worried about.

Sickone July 5 2008 8:07 AM EDT

9 people in the 2.7 - 2.8 mil score range
11 people in the 2.6 - 2.7 mil score range
21 people in the 2.4 - 2.5 mil score range
24 people in the 2.3 - 2.4 mil score range
23 people in the 2.2 - 2.3 mil score range
31 people in the 2.1 - 2.2 mil score range
63 people in the 2.0 - 2.1 mil score range


020 people in the 2.5 - 2.8 mil score range
162 people in the 2.0 - 2.5 mil score range
178 people in the 1.5 - 2.0 mil score range
= 360 people

292 active users from the past 7 days

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