The HF is quite powerful now, too powerful? (in General)

QBRanger July 2 2008 2:58 PM EDT

This week of testing has been an eye opener for the HF.

I have junctioned my HF with the following:

+11 AOM
+25 BOM
+14 BG
+31 EB
all named

HoC unnamed

My HF is just under 8M levels:

Stats in missile:

+251 PTH from his bow
100% base CTH to a max of 200% CTH with max dex

HP: 2,755,639
Str: 9,300,282
AC: 103

Damage: Vs Igot noname:
4 / 4 / 1,862,746

Hits in the first missile round

Vs Draco and his evasion minion with a TOE and 287 AC:

First hit in 3rd missile round
Hal shot Evad'o Minion [1195200]

Hal skewered Evad'o Minion [869138]

Hal struck deep into Evad'o Minion [1342483]
Hal skewered Evad'o Minion [1267046]

Vs LA and his 503 AC wall/no TOE:

24 / 24 / 329,524 hits in every round with quads

Quite impressive.

INDColtsFan18 July 2 2008 3:02 PM EDT

Any tattoo you use its going to make it look overpowered to the rest of CB. You have the best stuff out there.

QBRanger July 2 2008 3:05 PM EDT


But in the interest of being equal. I thought I would show what it is made of.

Sickone July 2 2008 3:19 PM EDT

Looks like the bow is most likely at least x4000 or very close to that (I can only assume it's a nice multiplier compared to MTL).
I was getting similar damage against mostly unarmored opponents with a little bit less than half the strength and freed's huge x10001 ELBow.
I wonder just how expensive an actual ELBow of +251 would be... "A LOT" would be my only guess. Probably almost equal to the tattoo NW ? Anybody researched that with lower HF levels since the ranged bonus displays ?

Heck, even without those junctioned items (except the gloves, that's a big 42% extra damage), it would still deal similar damages - you don't add that much extra DX with them to make a huge difference in chance to hit (maybe you'd miss one of the hits occasionally), and the extra strength amounts to around 18% extra damage or so if my calculations are right.

So, if anything, the bow + needs a bit of nerfing... but the x could still actually use a little bit of boosting.

QBRanger July 2 2008 3:26 PM EDT

NW of Steeds is 144M.

QBJohnnywas July 2 2008 3:35 PM EDT

Forget the Electric Familiar; quietly the Hal has crept up into a top place. There are some others doing very very well with it, including one stealthy NCB.

yay for Hal!!!

Tchoob July 2 2008 4:05 PM EDT

Sure it's good, if you build your strategy around it.
Good thing there's no +Dex amulet, otherwise you could have both Dex and Str +50% bonus activated, equipped BGs and Displacement Boots for added Evasion, making Hal a one man army.

QBOddBird July 2 2008 4:11 PM EDT

You fail to mention how in melee, CTH and DX are completely nerfed.

QBRanger July 2 2008 4:14 PM EDT

3,224,098 - Dex in melee

Total CTH with max dex advantage should be:

200+251= 451 x .4 = 180%.

Still not too shabby. 180% CTH with max dex and a 3.2M dex.

Tchoob July 2 2008 4:17 PM EDT

Yeah Ranger, but that's provided the opponent doesn't have any Evasion. If you rely purely on Hal for damage and your opponent survives too melee, things are not that bright anymore.

QBRanger July 2 2008 4:18 PM EDT

Yes, evasion in melee is problematic.

However, vs Draco, who has a massive evasion, I seem to kill his minion well before melee starts.

Now if someone put an evasion minion in back I may have a problem hitting. Hence the melee tank with the uber MH.

Suqataqus July 2 2008 5:34 PM EDT

This is exactly why my strategy has changed to incorporate a Hal for my ranged damage. For a tank minion, keeping both a melee and ranged weapon high enough in PTH to outclass evasion just won't work without buying CB$ from what I can see, at least for ranged weapons, due to the multiplier on evasion in ranged rounds. ENC makes this even more of a difficult task to achieve now that my team has expanded to 3 minions.

By using a tank minion + junction with Hal, you can focus entirely on melee weapons for the tank, while Hal's PTH grows steadily for hitting evasion minions. It's a very nice combo for a purely tank-based team.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 2 2008 5:45 PM EDT

dead in one round

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 2 2008 5:48 PM EDT

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Sickone July 3 2008 1:31 AM EDT

"3,224,098 - Dex in melee
Total CTH with max dex advantage should be:
200+251= 451 x .4 = 180%.
Still not too shabby. 180% CTH with max dex and a 3.2M dex. "

Actually, Jon specifically stated in a recent thread ( that this is not quite the way it works... it's actually a bit better :)

100 + 0.4*100 + 0.4*251 = 240.4% = 241%

Sickone July 3 2008 2:00 AM EDT

The ultimate HF strategy : single Junction base decay EC enchanter with AoL, BoF, BoM, BG.
What ELSE ?

three4thsforsaken July 3 2008 2:23 AM EDT

Hal is strong, but I find it hard to believe that's it is overpowered. It's hard to feel shock and awe about a tattoo when there are 7 million levels behind it.

Tchoob July 3 2008 3:04 AM EDT

@Sickone - that's a pretty useless Hal strategy. Hal + Decay don't get together well, because of Hal's problems in melee.

Sickone July 3 2008 4:55 AM EDT

"@Sickone - that's a pretty useless Hal strategy. Hal + Decay don't get together well, because of Hal's problems in melee."

Err... wait, yeah, you're right, I was confusing the familiar placement order in front vs behind of the equipping minion.

I could have just as well said base FB or base MM or a dagger... but I was mistaking anyway - it has to be a weaponless/DDless junctioner, so the Hal would go in the back (and getting the AoL/BoF leadership accuracy bonuses from the enchanter, plus the BoM/EG bonuses for the actual damage-dealing).

Paddy Boy July 3 2008 6:12 AM EDT

So you're saying it works now right? Good, HF has been solved.
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