T30: Dead Monkey Fight (in Contests)

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 3 2008 9:02 AM EDT

First and foremost, there is a brand spankin' new wiki page for tournaments.
The rules are updated and there is a section for you to submit
suggestions for future tournaments. Please utilize this tool to help make
tournaments better for everyone!

And READ the new prizes/incentives section, there is a new feature to tournaments that everyone will like!

Tournament Wiki Page

T30: Dead Monkey Fight
submitted by Novice

The rules are quite simple, you must have two minions when the tournament
begins. After using 500 BA, one of those minions must have decay trained,
and the other, UC. HP/STR/DX may be trained, and a ranged weapon may be used only on the UC minion.
Armor choice is not limited. All rules in the wiki apply except for the decay rule. There will be a 3000 BA cap.

You must train your UC and use it as an effective weapon, using a base UC is not the idea behind this tournament.

The winner will be whoever has the highest score at the end of the tournament.

The prizes:

All incentives listed in the wiki are in place.

The prizes include:
A Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x125] (+20)
An Enforcer's Crossbow [4x59] (+18)
A Tattoo of Augmentation lvl 1,790,270
A Cloak of the Istari [6] (+10)
A Set of Noldorin Spellcasters [0]
An Elven Cloak [4] (+8)
A Rune of Enlightenment lvl 20
One Million CBD

The first place winner will have the first pick of any item above, second place will have second pick, and third place will have third pick.

The tournament will begin on July 19th at noon, and end on July 26th at noon.

Cube July 3 2008 9:07 AM EDT

So enchantments are allowed right?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 3 2008 9:08 AM EDT

The decay minion may train enchantments

Cube July 3 2008 9:11 AM EDT

Oh and one more thing, will there be a period at the end where you can only fight other tournament characters?


Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 3 2008 9:12 AM EDT

thanks for revamping the rules, the move towards fairer tournies will hopefully revitalize the participation.

one more suggestion, as i have stated before, would be to limit tat usage to lessers when allowed at all.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 3 2008 9:21 AM EDT

@ Corn, nope
@ dude, the lesser idea will be implemented

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 3 2008 9:26 AM EDT

thanks slayer, and for all of your work as well.

i may have missed it in my perusal, but i also see no rule governing the transfer of characters premade for one strategy. since we can all see battle logs, i can see where that is not much of an issue, but if the transferred character had quite a high score it could allow the first person fighting it some challenge bonus perks that others following later would not have.

perhaps just disallowing transfer of characters for tourney participants once a new tourney is announced unless backed up by a sales in a pr thread?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 3 2008 9:33 AM EDT

fixed that, dude

INDColtsFan18 July 3 2008 10:18 AM EDT

I can't wait!

QBBarzooMonkey July 3 2008 10:32 AM EDT

I am sooooo rising from the grave for this one. :P

QBJohnnywas July 3 2008 10:34 AM EDT

I was thinking "I might get involved in this one" but then I checked the calendar.....Aaaargghhhh. I'm not here for most of that week!

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] July 3 2008 1:52 PM EDT

ROFL I looked at the wiki page and I love all 15 (or so) suggestions by novice, as well as their names. I am in!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2008 1:58 PM EDT

One got mixed up with another... but the missing one was just FB v. CoC

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] July 3 2008 3:11 PM EDT

This is actually one I could do...

Andy July 3 2008 4:42 PM EDT

So no tattoos right? And does the decay minion have to use decay as an attack? Or can I just keep it base?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 3 2008 4:53 PM EDT

base decay is an attack, but it must be his only source of damage.
no tattoos.

Daz July 3 2008 11:35 PM EDT

Yay! I'm in!

Zaekyr July 6 2008 2:34 AM EDT

Do we have to register?......it has been awhile since I played in a tournament.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 6 2008 3:14 AM EDT

nope, just create a tournament character when it begins

VivaPinata July 17 2008 1:13 PM EDT

23 hours!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 17 2008 1:30 PM EDT

"@ dude, the lesser idea will be implemented "

i know that it doesn't matter for this tourney, but the tournament wiki page still doesn't list any lesser tattoo limit for tourneys.

Tyriel [123456789] July 17 2008 4:22 PM EDT

"23 hours!"

Nice try, but today's the 17th not the 18th. :P It's still over a day away.

Conquest July 17 2008 4:31 PM EDT

Do tournament characters use your daily BA allotment or do they use a separate daily allotment of BA?

BadFish July 17 2008 4:35 PM EDT

daily BA.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 17 2008 4:36 PM EDT

Tournament characters have separate BA

BadFish July 17 2008 4:37 PM EDT

I've never been more glad to be wrong! Tournaments just got 10 times better!

Conquest July 17 2008 4:40 PM EDT

Agreed, I'm looking forward to playing this. Thanks for clarifying that for us Slayer.

VivaPinata July 17 2008 7:17 PM EDT

"Nice try, but today's the 17th not the 18th. :P It's still over a day away."

If it wasn't for you meddling kids, I would've gotten away with it too :P

INDColtsFan18 July 19 2008 12:04 AM EDT

12 hours!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 19 2008 2:29 PM EDT

30 minutes...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 19 2008 2:30 PM EDT


VivaPinata July 19 2008 4:21 PM EDT

Rentals. Acceptable or banned?

Tchoob July 19 2008 4:22 PM EDT

I've already tried renting that HG. Impossible, the game won't allow you :)

VivaPinata July 19 2008 4:30 PM EDT

The ones costing 60k? O_o

Tchoob July 19 2008 4:31 PM EDT

Yeah, the overpriced ones.

VivaPinata July 19 2008 11:53 PM EDT

Do I have this right? Level 9030 UC gives a effect of (1) at the cost of 107,160 experience??

TheHatchetman July 20 2008 12:23 AM EDT

I'm tellin ya man, out there on the West coast, you're all just livin in the past! :P

Zaekyr July 20 2008 3:44 AM EDT

not trying to be rude but charged has enchants trained on his UC minion at 699 battles fought

Tchoob July 20 2008 3:45 AM EDT

But he used below 400 BA...

Zaekyr July 20 2008 3:46 AM EDT

And Nafein has MM on a minion at over 500 battles

Zaekyr July 20 2008 3:50 AM EDT

sorry ......my bad...looking at wrong number (battles instead of challenged).


Tchoob July 20 2008 5:53 AM EDT

For the future - it would be nice if on the last day of the tournament you could only fight other tournament chars, and be excluded from challenges by non-tournament chars. The winner would simply be the char that can beat (or stalemate) all the tournament opponents.

VivaPinata July 20 2008 5:57 AM EDT

"You may not fight tournament-mode characters if you are not in the tournament yourself. Feel free to create a new tmode Character; otherwise, you'll have to content yourself with fighting non-tmode Characters."

Tchoob July 20 2008 5:59 AM EDT

Ah, ok. So only the first part was valid :)

VivaPinata July 20 2008 6:02 AM EDT

imo, it's only worthwhile to fight tourney characters since most of them have beatable PRs at an elevated score. Better rewards and you lower competing opponents from grabbing the tourney prizes ahead of you.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 20 2008 9:10 AM EDT

someone is using a melee weapon on their decay minion, is that allowed?

VivaPinata July 20 2008 9:12 AM EDT

Someone's also using a melee weapon on their fireball minion.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 20 2008 9:15 AM EDT

"base decay is an attack, but it must be his only source of damage. "

i see the answer now, i will send a message to the player, they may have just left a base weapon on accidentally.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 20 2008 9:19 AM EDT

"Someone's also using a melee weapon on their fireball minion."

from the way i read it, you don't have to have the correct setup until after you have challenged 500 battles. once you reach that mark though, you need to be in line with the template.

VivaPinata July 20 2008 9:23 AM EDT

Oh, okay. Unfortunately, "you must have two minions when the tournament begins" they failed in that respect as well.
Home>Character Standings>Tournament 30.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 20 2008 9:29 AM EDT

i am not sure how others handle it, but i like to just send them a chatmail and let them know of the rules and which one you think they may be out of line on. if they modify then no problem.

if they continue, then send a chatmail to slayer and he will handle it. the rules can be pretty daunting at times, especially with complex tourneys, i usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they just misread something or over looked it.

forktoad July 20 2008 10:12 AM EDT

Oopsie. That someone has found out that he was stupid enough to leave a dagger on the Decay minion and forget all about it. Thanks a million Dude! Justice shall be delivered! I shall have my repentance! Ha! Ha! Ha!

QBOddBird July 20 2008 10:49 AM EDT

...you'll have your repentance?

forktoad July 20 2008 11:08 AM EDT

I said repentance not vengeance.... All I meant to say was that I would get rid of the dagger.

TheHatchetman July 20 2008 12:01 PM EDT

dagger + Decay = decay fires, dagger does nothing... End result, Decay is the only damage from that minion. So technically, you made no violation :P

forktoad July 20 2008 12:19 PM EDT

Oopsie again!!! Well I was so busy with the tournament that I never noticed that. Guess that was a mountain of a molehill. So....

forktoad July 20 2008 12:38 PM EDT

Hey I didn't know that you could only check your recent battles only 4oo times in a day. That's so unfair. Now I can't check who's beating me. Can anyone please bail me out of this one? I promise I'll count the next time.

QBOddBird July 20 2008 2:46 PM EDT

Okay T30 was whippin' up on you. Just checked your battle log.

Also, don't expect to win if you're challenging and fighting stalemates consistently. That's just dumb.

There's your bail-out for the day.

winner winner July 20 2008 5:33 PM EDT

If someone gets 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, can they get the 100k participation prize?

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 20 2008 8:25 PM EDT

yes they can

winner winner July 21 2008 10:59 AM EDT

I magically got 160 BA in 2 hours.

VivaPinata July 21 2008 4:35 PM EDT

A similar thing occurred with me, I think. Except it was 70 BA in 20 minutes..

INDColtsFan18 July 21 2008 4:39 PM EDT

Theres a 3000 BA cap, even if that is true, i see no huge advantage.

QBOddBird July 21 2008 4:45 PM EDT

Higher MPR characters have an advantage - people fight them to try and beat them. If they don't, free exp.

So there's a bit of an advantage to it, yes.

Tchoob July 21 2008 6:09 PM EDT

Looks like I've fallen behind you guys. But since the reason was the birth of my daughter, I won't despair :)
Good luck to all the participants!

BadFish July 21 2008 6:11 PM EDT

Congratulations dude!

Warbringer July 21 2008 9:15 PM EDT

Hxbow in the auctions if any one want it.

Warbringer July 21 2008 10:24 PM EDT

Sold it back to the store.

Zaekyr July 21 2008 10:43 PM EDT

wow this is nice.My main character accrues 90+ BA in last couple hours and I got none during that time for my tourny character

INDColtsFan18 July 21 2008 10:51 PM EDT

You must train your UC and use it as an effective weapon, using a base UC is not the idea behind this tournament.

I think some are breaking this rule and using a low trained UC and just buffing dx/st and a ranged weapon.

I have a UC level almost = to my st/dx. So am i allowed to train a base UC as long as it is trained?

VivaPinata July 21 2008 11:19 PM EDT

On Colt's note, I would like to bring up an earlier reply... that I guess I imagined myself making. It went something along the lines of "According Help!, UC (1) requires a level of 9030, which is 107,160 experience from my base UC." Ummm... how does this factor in? Does training some experience (but less than 100k) in UC increases its efficiency?

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] July 22 2008 1:52 AM EDT

Lucario: As far as I know, having a UC effect of (0), even if it is only two points from a (1), does not help you at all. In the same way, having a weapon at +50 forged 98% of the way to +51 will still act as a +50, not as a +50.98.

My view of this tourney so far:
Excellent idea. When I initially read it, I thought it looked excellent. I love UC/Decay combos (see main character).

That was my initial impression.

My experience, though, has led me to a conclusion that, albeit obvious, really bums me out: UC without boosting gears is utter fail.

Here's why: as was just mentioned, it takes over 100k EXP just to get a UC level of (1). A UC level of (0) is utterly useless, of course, and conveniently takes precedence over any equipped weapon. I therefore have to save up 100k EXP to spend all at once when I have enough, so that I can sell my weapon and do damage. Now, I have to have UC trained by 500 battles challenged. So I have to gain 100k EXP on one minion of a two-minion team in 500 battles, meaning 4k total EXP per battle...
Impossible? Don't even get me started on it! Since I have to be saving more EXP than it is possible to accumulate on he whose destiny it is to be a monk in such a short amount of time, I can't up my ST, DX, or HP on that minion, so I have to continually fight the same opponents as my VPR gets larger and my challenge bonus gets more and more negative. This, of course, brings me down below that 4k EXP/battle number I was counting on, making my character exponentially more worthless as it approaches the tourney's BA cap.

Now, if one had access to a Combat Gi or a pair of HG's, training 84 EXP to a base UC would give one an actual attacking weapon to start out with. Maybe one does have access to one of those things, but not many. Tourney characters can't get things from rentals, and upgraded specialized equipment isn't exactly saturating the auctions at the prices a continually-negativizing challenge bonus can afford a tourney char. I certainly have no way of getting my UC to the point where it is an attacking weapon of any sort, as I do not have access to boosting gears. I would expect that not much of anybody in the tourney does. If everyone in the tourney must have the same types of minions, shouldn't required equipment be supplied in sufficient numbers for tourney characters?

I'm mostly just ranting, but it is rather frustrating that my Tourney char is about to be auto-retired because of its Score:Power ratio.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but I would like to start some sort of trouble-shooting operation. Obviously, introducing 60 new Combat Gis into the game for tourney use would throw off the rares balance and the game economy. Since tourney characters accumulate BA separately already, and already can't buy from regular auctions or rent from rentals, how much work and how much of a difference would it be to have a separate, mini-economy for tourneys? The tourney admin could customize equipment choices (I just got a flash of the Goldeneye game for the N64) for each upcoming tourney, and the tournament-store would be stocked with those, so that all extra items spawned into the game through tourneys would also leave at the end of it.

There could also be a tourney-rentals page, where items from the game can be put in in advance and are rented for the duration of the tourney, and then return into the normal economy afterwards? This idea sort of just struck me, and seemed like a good one. It could work to both insulate the game economy and prevent abuse through selling your own things to the store and picking them out with your tourney char, or selling to yourself for cheap through auctions.

What do people think?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 22 2008 6:17 AM EDT

much higher rewards would have gotten us there faster.

Xiaz on Hiatus July 22 2008 7:37 AM EDT

I haven't done a tourney in ages, but I thought tattoo's were not allowed for the entire tourney. No?

winner winner July 22 2008 7:39 AM EDT

The UC part doesn't make sense, it's a waste of exp to try and get UC up to to just 1.

VivaPinata July 22 2008 7:40 AM EDT

Yup, unless told otherwise (ie Tourney type).

Cube July 22 2008 7:53 AM EDT

Maybe tourneys could have a set of gear you start with.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 22 2008 8:57 AM EDT

i have asked for that as well corn, make it so that the tourney master could select certain gear that we all start with and disable all purchases, sells or transfers.

when tourney ideas were first being discussed for cb2, that was one of my suggestions along with being able to set a certain amount of base xp we could start with as well. basically, all variables of the game could be set at certain levels. all items and monies would disappear with tourney characters as well so as not to affect the economy.

this would've been a great tourney to start us off at a higher point in the xp curve so that the uc would've been more usable.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 22 2008 9:16 AM EDT

here is the original tournament thread from october of 2005, it has some pretty interesting ideas in it and is worth a read just for nostalgia's sake.


VivaPinata July 22 2008 9:21 AM EDT

"we all start with and disable all purchases, sells or transfers"

Like loans..?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 22 2008 10:35 AM EDT

The system to create the items is the problem. We don't know if Jon has a nice interface to system for that or not. If it's time consuming it's less likely to happen. I think for now we should try not to suggest tourneys that require items...(even though that would totally RULE)

winner winner July 22 2008 10:35 AM EDT

I just got another 160 BA

INDColtsFan18 July 22 2008 10:59 AM EDT

Yeah but training a base UC clearly breaks the rules, and makes this tournament pointless. Why not just call it archer and decay.

If noone else is training UC, then that puts me at a disadvantage, or anyone else who has xp in uc for that matter.

So slayer can we get a ruling on this, if you are going to stick to you original words/rules, or are we allowed to train base decay and be fake archers?

winner winner July 22 2008 11:00 AM EDT

I have UC trained, just not a lot of it.

VivaPinata July 22 2008 11:10 AM EDT

As ColonelCustard has elaborated, training UC is more or less pointless. At base, it does nothing except remove melee weapons from this tournament. To train it to any level of effectiveness would require either actual equipment instead these toys we bought at the store or investing so much experience into it that even the smallest ECs would easily defeat our other stats. Then it'll just be a painfully slow Decay/GA tournament. Uhhh... which doesn't sound too much better than its current state.

But anyways, I spoke to Slayer this morning when chat still worked and informed him of our woes. He agrees that things are a mess, and I am sure that he'll be on later with his solution.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 22 2008 11:11 AM EDT

i am training it on mine, he's at:

Unarmed Combat 2,051 2,051 0

he does suck though too!

winner winner July 22 2008 11:12 AM EDT

The highest UC in the tournament isn't even at 1.

QBOddBird July 22 2008 11:14 AM EDT

Mind it does have some defensive DX added due to innate Evasion, but otherwise it is pointless.

Xiaz on Hiatus July 22 2008 11:55 AM EDT

The tournament title is very fitting - I'm dieing left, right and center. My poor monkey, poor, poor... monkey :(

On the up side though, I love this idea - what a challenge :)

winner winner July 22 2008 11:56 AM EDT

The scores are a bit low for a tourney. :(

VivaPinata July 22 2008 2:17 PM EDT

JarL just broke 170k. But otherwise, commandering dead monkeys kind of makes it difficult to find targets. =x

INDColtsFan18 July 22 2008 2:37 PM EDT

Jarl also is using a base UC, which is clearly against the rules. Slayer please manage the tournament better, this is way unfair.

Warbringer July 22 2008 2:41 PM EDT

It is not against the rules Colts reread the first post.

INDColtsFan18 July 22 2008 2:42 PM EDT

really, what is this translate to then?

"You must train your UC and use it as an effective weapon, using a base UC is not the idea behind this tournament."

Warbringer July 22 2008 2:53 PM EDT

It's not the idea, but it is also not against the rules. How many tournament characters have UC at a level other than 0? If most people are at 0, then why does it matter if they have 50k experience in it or 0 experience?

INDColtsFan18 July 22 2008 3:01 PM EDT

It is against the rules, can you read? Let me highlight it for you..

"The rules are quite simple, you must have two minions when the tournament begins. After using 500 BA, one of those minions must have decay trained, and the other, UC. HP/STR/DX may be trained, and a ranged weapon may be used only on the UC minion. Armor choice is not limited. All rules in the wiki apply except for the decay rule. There will be a 3000 BA cap.
You must train your UC and use it as an effective weapon, using a base UC is not the idea behind this tournament."

Also, Using UC as your effective weapon does not mean trining UC, then buffing a huge bow/xbow/sling and maxing ST/DX and just hoping to kill minions in ranged.

QBRanger July 22 2008 3:03 PM EDT

Perhaps in the next version, no ranged weapon is allowed.

And perhaps characters can start off with some xp on them, to get UC rolling along.

lostling July 22 2008 3:07 PM EDT

truth be told... i use UC as an effective weapon :) i just dont train it... my sling is store bought and will probably remain that way... i use STR to arguement my UC which until it hits 1 will remain non existent -.- so i ask of everyone... is that wrong?

INDColtsFan18 July 22 2008 3:07 PM EDT

I agree.

Also, isn't it odd that the top players of the tournament have some of the lowest UC values...

VivaPinata July 22 2008 3:30 PM EDT

Constitutionally, Colts is right. "You MUST train UC and use it..." is as clearly much as a rule as "You MUST have two minions blahblah" or "One of those minions MUST have decay yada yada.." But at that, I agree with War's and lost's perspectives. In practice, with or without the training processs, UC is used effectively as anybody can. In fact, wasting the experience to get UC to level 1 would be lowering the overall effectiveness.

I can also say with first hand experience that in most of "the top players'" battles, UC actually plays a very strong role. The last few battles between me and Nafein lasted 17ish rounds. My battles against Okay T30 lasts around 10. After the initial ranged firefights (usually with more missing than hitting), all of these "top" battles boil down to relying on Decay and UC. Decay cuts down health, and UC finishes. It's amazingly grungy and slow and painful to watch. Like dead monkeys or something. And the victor is always the person with the most efficient UC--either the one that actually hits or the one that manages to kill the Decay minion first.

Lastly and for the record, I doubt that many others tourney characters can match my UC...

Soxxors's Decay hit UC [523]
Roxxors crunched UC [260]

Soxxors's Decay hit UC [132]
Roxxors pulverized UC [343]
Roxxors crushed UC [241]
Roxxors cries "O_o!"

Soxxors's Decay hit DECAY [1907]
Roxxors beat DECAY [264]
Roxxors crunched DECAY [261]

Soxxors's Decay hit DECAY [691]
Roxxors pounded DECAY [248]
Roxxors crunched DECAY [322]

Soxxors's Decay hit DECAY [60]
Roxxors crushed DECAY [330]
Roxxors cries "O_o!"

@ Ranger, if the tournaments are going in order, we won't have ranged weapon next tournament anyways :P

Conquest July 22 2008 3:50 PM EDT

I had a 10k UC, 5th highest up until this morning when I read this thread. Was getting hit by people using base UC... so screw that. I untrained it.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 22 2008 3:51 PM EDT

worst tourney idea ever... *hangs head in shame*

Conquest July 22 2008 3:53 PM EDT

It really isn't THAT bad novice. Even though it didn't quite work out the way it was supposed to it isn't as terrible as some are making it sound.

And like Lucario said, UC is playing a rather important role in our fights even if it isn't the big dmg dealer that many thought it would be.

winner winner July 22 2008 4:36 PM EDT

Lucario, the fights last long because of my huge EC.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 22 2008 4:38 PM EDT

by tonight or tomorrow everyone will have a nice pair of HG's to play with, as well as a little bit of cash to upgrade them with, be patient, reinforcements are on the way :)

winner winner July 22 2008 4:39 PM EDT

so I guess we don't have to train UC if we have HGs?

Conquest July 22 2008 4:42 PM EDT

Well in that case I'll untrain my UC for the second time...

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 22 2008 4:43 PM EDT

as long as your UC affects your battles, and you can prove it if I ask to see how, then no, you can keep a base UC and use HG's for the effect boost

VivaPinata July 22 2008 6:37 PM EDT

"Lucario, the fights last long because of my huge EC."

EC seems to have become a standard. I mean, it's like why not? But if neither of us used EC, then our melee damage would be showing much bigger digits. The point is that UC affects our battles. And now that actually visible! Go Shade! :D

Conquest July 22 2008 10:54 PM EDT

Maybe some people missed the 3rd post in this thread, but no enchantments or DD are allowed on the UC minion after 500 battles. I just glanced through the top half of the list and found at least 4 people with AMF, SG, DM, etc... trained on their UC minion.

Xiaz on Hiatus July 23 2008 9:12 AM EDT

From the train page -

"Your Score is significantly lower than your Power. This means that either you need to fight more challenging opponents, or your strategy needs to be optimized. Ask for suggestions in the New Players chat room!"

Poor Monkey :(

winner winner July 23 2008 9:17 AM EDT

yeah, I'm having some trouble finding people that give me 100% challenge bonus.

Last Gasp July 23 2008 10:12 PM EDT

3 days left on this "target weak" tournament...

Colonel Custard [The Knighthood] July 23 2008 11:42 PM EDT

Wait... are we getting HGs?

INDColtsFan18 July 23 2008 11:57 PM EDT

Admin{CB1}Slayer333, July 22 4:38 PM EDT
"by tonight or tomorrow everyone will have a nice pair of HG's to play with, as well as a little bit of cash to upgrade them with, be patient, reinforcements are on the way :) "

Hmmm, we should have them, someone is slacking...

It's pretty much to late now anyways, it won't change much.

VivaPinata July 24 2008 12:04 AM EDT

60 hours left. That's plenty of time for a difference!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2008 12:24 AM EDT

next person to comment on a job a volunteer admin is doing is going on my list...

Last Gasp July 24 2008 12:25 AM EDT

Ya gonna check it twice???

BadFish July 24 2008 12:47 AM EDT

Novice is right.

INDColtsFan18 July 24 2008 12:56 AM EDT

I was just joking in the sense that it's not the end of the world, but anyways if you do volunteer to do something, wouldn't it be wise to do it?

Nothing against slayer, he's cool for running toruneys and I can imagine the difficulty and pressure, but he did volunteer to do it. That's just how I see it and im sure he has a true excuse, but if something is said to be done and is not done, then what does that say?
Once again slayer, no offense keep running tourneys they are great, just try manages them a little more, i think we can agree on that. and if you don't have the time or willpower then try and recruit another person and make it a 2 man team.

So go ahead and put me on your "list". It won't change my feelings for you novice.

BadFish July 24 2008 12:59 AM EDT

Probably should have kept that to yourself, IND. Just some advice.

INDColtsFan18 July 24 2008 1:01 AM EDT

I know, but are opinions always forbidden on this game?

BadFish July 24 2008 1:03 AM EDT

No, not at all. It's just common courtesy when someone takes time out of their life to do something completely voluntarily to not criticize.

That said, I still love you and want to have your child IND.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2008 1:10 AM EDT

no worries IND, you've been on my list for weeks

INDColtsFan18 July 24 2008 1:31 AM EDT

I understand that he did volunteer and i respect that. From my eyes when I say im going to do something I try my hardest to do it, or i don't say it. It depends who you are I guess.
All im saying is that i'm sure slayer could agree in saying that he needs help with managing/maintaining the whole tourney thing, so why not get him a partner or something?

im tired of arguing, So can we just stop this discussion and finish out the tourney, slayer will get our HG's someday i can assure you that.

novice: why threaten to put me on your "list" if im already on it? Do i get two spots?! Oh yippee!


QBOddBird July 24 2008 1:35 AM EDT

I dunno, but you make my list as well for criticizing the hard-working admin multiple times. After all, YOU don't plan these tourneys out, and it is damn hard to cover every spot.

I think Slayer does an excellent job, and I see no need to criticize him because he might *gasp* be imperfect.

Bushy July 24 2008 1:38 AM EDT

and now Colts we wait for your rebuttal

INDColtsFan18 July 24 2008 1:45 AM EDT

Here's my rebuttal:
Slayer is in no way a bad admin, he just clearly needs aid in the tournament. So if you disagree with that then fine with me, enjoy people bending rules, cheating, and noone there to stop them. I have played in only 2 tourny's but in both of them, there were people breaking small rules to get that slight advantage.

Good luck Slayer and Goodnight CB for the final time.

QBOddBird July 24 2008 2:09 AM EDT

I would like to emphasize the small part of that statement which read:

"I have only played in two tourny's"

I was simply trying to point out that people will ALWAYS search for any smallest possible advantage, as that is simply human nature - Slayer, even Slayer and multiple people helping him, would probably be unlikely to plug every single hole in every tournament.

That being said, goodnight to you as well.

QBRanger July 24 2008 2:14 AM EDT

I agree with Ranger.

Always have in this respect.

Admins are volunteers, sometimes the job is too much. Sometimes they are not cut out for the job.

I like Slayer personally and as an admin. Fair and consistent, which is all one really wants in an admin.

However, with a number of characters participating in this tourney, perhaps he needs some help, possibly from another admin to help police things in the tourney.

I realize what Indy/Ranger was stating, right away. Nothing malicious about it. Tsk Tsk for assuming wrong.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2008 2:16 AM EDT

You're kidding right?

You seriously think saying that Slayer is slacking is appropriate?

QBRanger July 24 2008 2:21 AM EDT

I agree with the gist of the message.

For me, enough said.

As stated, I like Slayer and think he does a great job as an admin.
But I understand Indy's/Ranger's point.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 24 2008 2:31 AM EDT

a month and a half... that's how long IND has been playing his account...

Slayer has been playing this game for as long as I can remember, and is in the top 10 community contributors in my opinion. I don't
think you or your handle buddy have the right to an opinion about how he does his job, at least not a public one.

I'm actually supposed to be backing up slayer watching what people are doing, or at least that's what a volunteered for... boy am I sorry I did. There is no quicker way to lose a volunteer and a community contributor than to needlessly criticize a job they've agreed to do.

You keep trying to end this conversation, I think it's shameful to make comments like that and try and walk away from what you said, or agreed with.

BadFish July 24 2008 2:34 AM EDT

I think the way it was stated was completely inappropriate. I also think it was an honest mistake.

A better way:
"slayer you sure seem to have your hands full with the tournament! Anything I/we can do to help? Looks like those HG's are taking longer than expected huh? Holler if you need anything. If not i'll be over here, being quiet, enjoying the hard work you have already put into this tourney."

That's what I believe Indy was trying to say. He just didn't say it right, and that's ok.

It sucks being stuck in the middle.... not knowing which side to take heheheheh

lostling July 24 2008 2:38 AM EDT

yes slayer needs help =x but dont we all :) like me! i need your help to buy more stuff... SEND THOSE MONEIES OVER! =x

Conquest July 24 2008 3:10 AM EDT

A good admin takes criticism lightly and remains humble. Just like any good leader or boss does. Bad leaders lead with an iron fist. I am surprised so many of you see the title of "admin" as a free pass. Both Rangers have the right idea and IND's message was not out of line. It was simply a statement. Slayer can choose to respond to it however he chooses to. I don't think he needs anyone to defend him or become his e-knight. Regardless of how Slayer responds it won't matter to me one bit. I see IND's point, but that is all that it is - a point!

With that said. IND only the few people that had trained DD's and Enchantments on their UC characters have broke the rules. And you were one of them... Mr. UC/SG with 2000+ games played. I am not one to call people out (and I did not when I posted the original message in this thread) but if you are going to imply that others are cheating and you have played by the rules then I have no problem pointing out your own inconsistency. It is nothing personal, but please refrain from the "holier than thou" mentality.

So... thank you, Slayer, for running the tournament. The majority of us have enjoyed it regardless of the kinks. Whether your implement HG's or not this late in the tournament won't change anything in my eyes. You took the time to set up the tournament wiki, the tournament itself, and answered a whole slew of questions that us new guys had. I appreciate it as do all of us (including IND I am sure).

Xiaz on Hiatus July 24 2008 5:21 AM EDT

It was tough tournament idea - solution was proposed and not delivered yet - big deal. If the tournament is too tough, retire and join a more appropriate one. Get over it gentlemen.

Conquest July 24 2008 6:55 AM EDT


Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 24 2008 7:17 AM EDT

Never think for a second that I'm too sensitive to take some criticism :)

I realize that without boosting gear, UC is extremely difficult to use, I'm trying to get the HG's, but I can't create them myself, unfortunately. They'll get here as soon as Jon has the time to make them for me, and if its too late, I'll just ask earlier next time.

On the subject of having help, I get tons of it. People have asked me to help, and people are constantly reporting things they see to me, which is awesome.

If you ever feel like I could be doing something better, CM is the best way to express that, and please don't hesitate to CM me, as I said, I won't blow a criticism all out of proportion and hate you forever. :)

Cube July 24 2008 7:21 AM EDT

I just checked the top ten, and everyone there seems to be following the rules; anyone down low, it probably isn't that important whether the rules are strictly applied to them. So I really don't think this cheating problem you're talking about is that widespread.

Admittedly, I have seen Slayer miss a deadline he set to do something for a tourney, such as with the HGs on this tournament, but this is completely understandable for a normal human being; I'd be concerned about anyone available 24/7. I don't see any major reason for criticism, but possibly we could use another tourney admin for when Slayer can't be available?

Yes, a few of the tourneys seem to have 'flopped' but in general I think Slayer does a good job. He comes up with new ideas to try and improve the tourneys pretty frequently imo, Example: the wiki page.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 24 2008 7:55 AM EDT

making mistakes is part of taking responsibility. the sign of good leadership is learning from your mistakes. in the past tournies, we have had issues and our tourney admin has set forth new rules to address those issues.

thanks slayer, for your good leadership and mostly for handling yourself with decorum, i hope we can all learn from your example!

QBRanger July 24 2008 10:22 AM EDT


superior me July 24 2008 11:48 AM EDT

i didnt participate in the tourney but before hand the planing and implementing of the tourney took much effort and consideration and dispite some impefections successfully, however instead of focusing your frustrations on slayer whos giving up his own time for free! take it out on those breaking the rules or abusing loop holes, dispite that slayer took it on the chin (even though not being in the wrong imo) if you read slayers post theres only so much he can do without jons aid such as create items, so it was obviously out of his hands and whilst many of you commenting on his efforts (negatively) didnt know this, you also didnt give him the chance to explain

i think your doing a great job slayer (and other admins) and personally cant wait to participate in the next tourney =)

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 25 2008 11:22 PM EDT

A notice to all players, using GA as your main damage source is not acceptable, you must retrain to effectively use UC, as stated in the rules. The idea of this tournament is to see who can best manage a difficult strategy, not who can find a way around them.

Tomorrow morning I will send a chatmail to everyone with GA trained, if you fail to prove to me how your UC affects your battles, you will be disqualified.

BMWheatley July 26 2008 3:34 AM EDT

Yea! whoever has the biggest EC wins!! grats, Nafein..

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 26 2008 3:40 AM EDT

<BMWheatley> so basically, the tournament wont allow defensive strats. so now its whoever is the biggest wins, b/c everyone is using the same strat...
<BMWheatley> good night, gg
BMWheatley left the room.
- carnage: BMWheatley has kicked BMWheatley out of the room

#1 I'm sorry
#2 It's not Slayers fault the idea sucked

Zaekyr July 26 2008 4:09 AM EDT

What happened to "you must train your UC....Base UC will not be acceptable".I have been trying to compete as the rules change but to say I cannot use GA while I have been training equal amounts of UC to stay within original parameters is very unfair.

You are ultimately saying because I did not train EC to make my UC "effective" that I am disqualified?

Xiaz on Hiatus July 26 2008 4:29 AM EDT

Yeh Guardian Angel is a joke - I was dealing UC damage, and the opponent was missing each round, yet I end up losing because of GA! :P

Conquest July 26 2008 6:30 AM EDT

He never said that GA could not be used. He said that GA cannot be your only form of damage.

Really I don't see the problem. Since the beginning he has stated that UC must contribute to your fights. Those that were running big GA's were only using 20 to 2000 str/dex and had no intention of attempting to hit anything with UC.

VivaPinata July 26 2008 8:45 AM EDT

I'm going to go with BMW and nov on this one. /me sighs

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 26 2008 8:51 AM EDT

"#2 It's not Slayers fault the idea sucked"

the idea was awesome, as is the others you proposed. it all comes down to "live and learn." next time this type of tournament is ran, things will be much better.

perhaps our time would be better spent giving input on how to fix the next one rather than just complaining.

if it is possible to start us with a base amount of xp that would be one way or increasing rewards greatly. i would also make it so that uc has to be trained to a certain effect, such as 1 or a certain amount of xp.

Tchoob July 26 2008 9:43 AM EDT

I think that this tournament is too limiting in terms of strategy. Giving everyone HGs or CGis won't fix it. In my opinion disallowing GA is a bad move - with no GA there's no incentive to train HP. None at all, 'cause fights are decided by EC/Str/Dex and nothing more.

Conquest July 26 2008 11:17 AM EDT

He isn't disabling the use of GA. He is saying that if GA is your ONLY source of damage you are not following the rules.

Xiaz on Hiatus July 26 2008 12:05 PM EDT

What a terrific tourney :) - didn't get to hit the BA cap though!

lostling July 26 2008 12:10 PM EDT

i would like to say i HATE score tournies...

1stly fastest internet connection pwns
2ndly growth counts for *not much*

too sick about ranting anymore....
ne way

Gunslinger (256911)
Nafein (87217)
monkey monkey (83899)

and guess why the scores are like this...

INDColtsFan18 July 26 2008 2:38 PM EDT

lostling, what do you propose the tourneys be based on? MPR?
Cause i have a low mpr compared to the others, yet i had a top 3 score for several parts during the tourney. I just messed up because i couldnt find any good targets. MPR helps gain score, so on a scale it does have an effect, for instance i couldnt farm them, but they could famr me, raising there score and lwoering mine.

But i agree to some extent, as score can change rapidly and it can be effect by characters like you lsited, which doesnt really show woh is the best, but rather who can find the lame high score farm.

But there will always be problems, nothing will ever be perfect so i guess we have to deal with it, let's just hope future tourneys don't have some of the issues as this one did.

Anyways grats to the winners and see you all at the next tourney!

winner winner July 26 2008 2:43 PM EDT

hehe, I had the highest MPR but I couldn't log on in the morning so I lost. A week of effort is gone. :(

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 26 2008 2:49 PM EDT

i tend to think that any score based tourneys need to limit some or all of the battles to tourney characters only. in my opinion that is the only way a score tourney can be fair.

Tchoob July 26 2008 3:03 PM EDT

Last day for tournament characters battles only - and we have nice score tournaments, that don't require having external farms to win.

Last Gasp July 26 2008 4:08 PM EDT

Okay... who deleted the tournament?

Last Gasp July 26 2008 4:09 PM EDT

And on a side note, I actually enjoyed the tournament... it was educational to have such restrictions... and shows how hard it would be to grow a character at those stages with those skills...

That being said, we all know this is a game of change... you can't use the same strategy at lower levels that you can at the next stage and so on up the chain...

forktoad July 27 2008 1:36 AM EDT

That was a surprise. I didn't really expect two out of the top three to finish there... but then that's the fun part of the game. It's totally unpredictable. However, the idea of tourney characters only attacking one another after a specific number of battles is indeed very important. Since this would mean that Tourney characters only compete among themselves to find out who has got the best strategy. I also agree that there should be more dimensions to a strategy, say for example, the number of minions shouldn't have been limited to 2. All-in-all it was a great tourney and I got to learn a lot of new things about CB2 and Monkey strats.

Last Gasp July 28 2008 6:13 PM EDT

So is this normally how tournaments end? Or did the whole thing get deleted like it never was?

I thought perhaps there would be some announcement in here of the winners... as this is my first tournament please excuse my ignorance.

Tyriel [123456789] July 28 2008 6:22 PM EDT

Tournaments always end like this. It wasn't deleted, all characters are still there (though automatically retired at tournament end) and the standings still exist.

Give Slayer some time. Don't start getting impatient. :)

Last Gasp July 28 2008 7:00 PM EDT

Thanks... just curious... as my character disappeared... So I'm assuming they get set off into some "blind" area for awhile while the tournament is being "cleaned up."

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 28 2008 7:07 PM EDT

The winners:

Angel of Death

PM or CM me your item choices, and they will be sent out ASAP.
Participation prizes will be sent out in a few minutes.

TourneyPrizes July 28 2008 7:14 PM EDT

A Tattoo of Augmentation lvl 1,790,270 is taken.

lostling July 28 2008 8:27 PM EDT

tournyprizes has spoken! =x
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Tjz">T30: Dead Monkey Fight</a>