GLs long list of CB change ideas (Inc Evasion!) (in General)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 9 2008 3:51 AM EDT

I'm off up to the in laws for a week, so limited internet access and I wanted to get all my thoughts out for everyone to digest before I went, and to state again I'm not some kind of rabid Evasion lover...

1: Evasion. Stop the -PTH of Evsion being able to reduce Dex based CTH. It's got Defensive Dexterity for that now.

Remove the Ranged round bonuses. That make no sense and make it too hard for Archers. In recompense, make Shields a better foil for Archer. Something like allow the AC (probably base only) to be -PTH for Ranged attacks (that works likes DBs).

2: Shocking Grasp. Make some non metalic armours actually reduce the damage SG can do. Even if it's only the Elven Gears. Make thier base AC a percentage Reduction to SGs damage.

3: A/EXBows. Change the drain to be based on damage done. And change the AXBow. It seems counter intuitive. If you want to reduce the Dex of someone, you need to be able to hit them. If you can hit them, you don't really need to reduce thier Dex...

4: Add back Cause Fear as an EO.

5: Add Endurance as a skill.

6: Break UC into two new Abilites. Maybe call them Martial Arts and Brawl (or MA and UC). Have MA be as UC is now, but have the other be the same a UC is now except it trains Endurance instead of Evasion.

7: Sort out FB. Either it's a quick kill spell, in which case up it's damage. Or remove the Friendly Fire portion in Melee. As it is FB has a hard time killing in Ranged.

8: Add a Friendly fire 'splash' to the SoD.

9: (Sute stole my thunder last night! :P) PL. Change PL so that it can't absorb a blow that would normally kill the target.

I think that's all for the moment. I'd also like to suggest a change to the to hit mechanics, but have two versions I'm not quite sold on and would like feedback. ;)

The underlying change would by to get rid of the automatic hit building up into the next automatic hit, and make the system more dynamic. With a chance to miss or land mutliple hits per round, that are independent of each other.

For example. Give Dexterity and 'effect', still based on the Dex versus Dex comparison. At equal Dex this is 1. As you get higher, it increases. This effect gives you the number of attacks you can make each round. These all have your base chance to hit of landing based on weapon type. PTH increases thischance for all your attacks. PTH above what is needed for 100% hit is just wasted, there only to soak up any -PTH of your opponent.

Each hit would have something like a base 5% cap to always hit and a max 95% cap on hitting (Numbers to be tweaked).

The other version would be to use Dex to generate the chance to hit each attack (combined with your base chance to hit) and use PTH to determin how many attacks per round you would get.

But the outcome of either would be you could for example have three attacks per round and miss the first two while hitting on the last. Or land all three, or miss all three. Depending on your chances and the RNG.

That's all for now! I'm sure I've forgoten some of the stuff I was thinkign aobut last night. ;) Have fun all!

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] August 9 2008 5:13 AM EDT

On the axbow issue, I need it to work the way it does. Yes, I may already be able to hit but the axbow helps me to get the extra hits since that is what a JKF needs most.

three4thsforsaken August 9 2008 5:27 AM EDT

Brawl would be sweet :)

Wizard'sFirstRule August 9 2008 6:26 AM EDT

actually it might be fun having evasion only reduce weapon PTH and spill overs from DEX but grant no DEX itself. Then if you want to reduce DX based PTH, you need to TRAIN DEX.

QBRanger August 9 2008 8:29 AM EDT

"Stop the -PTH of Evsion being able to reduce Dex based CTH. It's got Defensive Dexterity for that now. "

This will make very little difference. Yes it matters a bit, however what dex CTH you typing about???

With the AoF's bonus to dexterity tanks have virtually ZERO PTH vs equal sized characters evasion.

Unless they have a USD backed weapon which ENC is supposed to take care of.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 9 2008 9:23 AM EDT

evasion effect as listed from the wiki:

"Evasion above an opponents' plus-to-hit (from weapon enchantments or Tattoo of Augmentation) will reduce dexterity-based chance-to-hit."

i would assume that last part is what he is referring to.

QBRanger August 9 2008 9:40 AM EDT

Yes, I understood.

Removing that part will do almost nothing. Yes, it matters a little bit, but realistically, tanks do not have a dex chance to hit vs decent evasion minions, whos dex is superboosted by the AoF.

Sickone August 9 2008 9:50 AM EDT

How it should be...

Evasion grants -PTH but only on the limit of enemy +PTH.
Grants no defensive DX at all.

This way it IS a counter for enemy USD usage, but ONLY for that.
For everything else... just train DX instead.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 9 2008 3:41 PM EDT

There are several very interesting suggestions here.

Endurance as a skill might work if it is trained like the tat. Where you get 40% of the lvl as the endurance effect or something around there.

Brawl is a very awesome skill. You can separate them further by making the weapon statistics slightly different.

In current UC it is (B*20x)1.2x For brawl it could be (B*25x)x. x being the UC effect. Meaning that brawl would hit slightly harder but be slightly less accurate. Or anything along those lines.

Axbows have their place. And while the drain on ax/exbows is not how it should be right now. It should not be based on damage. I think that it should have a set % drain and then more focus on the direct drain based on str. But it should not be the original str rather the current str of both the target and the shooter.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 10 2008 1:20 PM EDT

"With the AoF's bonus to dexterity tanks have virtually ZERO PTH vs equal sized characters evasion."

OK Ranger. Assume equal dex on both parts, and equal dex based items boosts. Apart form the AoF.

Next, assume that the AoF grants 30% more Defensive Dex.

How much does that reduce the base chance to hit of a 1H Weapon by?

Goodfish August 10 2008 6:54 PM EDT

Completely agree with 2/4/5/6. Regarding 3 (Axbow), I think the weapon is great. Yes, you're right, you do need to hit- but it's great for ensuring double or triple hits in melee, and also great for ensuring enemy tanks don't hit YOU in melee. As for 7 (FB), the spell is fine. In fact I think it's a bit overpowered, since the only people I tend to have problems with are single FB mages or teams with big FF's. And I have a large AMF for my level. The friendly fire is the only way to keep the skill balanced, in my opinion, since it outshines the other DD's in terms of spread power. Regarding 8 (SoD), I wouldn't like that change. What's the point? It's supposed to be a physical FB weapon, and as such, shouldn't hurt you in ranged. And adding friendly fire to it in melee would be pointless because it gets such a massive -PTH and DX penalty.

The rest I have nothing to say about. Heh.

Cube August 10 2008 7:01 PM EDT

1. How does it stack with DBs?
2. Cool.
3. Absolutely.
4. What's Cause Fear?
5. Maybe, might be neat. Might be OP. How would it work with SS already existing?
6. Awesome.
7. Agree, but not too much.
8. In melee? Or in ranged? Cause the SoD already is terrible in melee.
9. Then why train it... Not a good idea.

To hit fixes would be great to.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] August 11 2008 5:55 AM EDT

1. How does it stack with DBs?

As they do now.

4. What's Cause Fear?

Was a CB1 EO. Like a Physical AMF, but no backlash. At maximum effect it reduced incoming Physical damage by 44% (IIRC).

5. Maybe, might be neat. Might be OP. How would it work with SS already existing?

No problem there. It's a choice. Maximise your Armour through SS, or go the threshold route with Endurance.

I'd still have the trained Endurance reduce AMF backlash. A choice for Mages other Than Evasion to train.

8. In melee? Or in ranged? Cause the SoD already is terrible in melee.

Only in Melee. ;) Sure, no one should be using it in Melee anyway, but it hits every round, and it's really just internal consistency if we keep FB friendly fire. ;)

9. Then why train it... Not a good idea.

This won't break PL. You can still have 20HP minions, you just need AS to get them to survive anything above 20HP damage. PL will still work exactly the same, but this way it won't keep your main damage dealer alive for that extra round when they get hit for uber amounts of damage.

10. To hit fixes would be great to.

Anyone got some feedback on them? Dex or PTH to determine number of attacks? Any potentail problems with this system?

Cube August 11 2008 8:44 AM EDT

On second thought the PL change wouldn't effect me at all, but I still dont see it as necessary..
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