Fireball needs some love (in General)
September 4 2008 11:01 AM EDT
Now that I have been running this FB setup for 3 months now, when compared with other strategies, it it quite weak. FB is supposed to be a quick kill scenario, with PL batteries and ToE/AC walls, it does measly damage. In fact, in the upper ranks PL batteries with TSA's are almost silly to kill. Post-ranged I fry my entire team (if they are still alive).
I would like to request an increase in FB damage so that it can compete with the new evasion changes regarding tanks. If tanks are basically moving into an "always hits" mode, then mages since they can only hit once, should do marginally more damage imo.
/me waits for the flames to start
September 4 2008 11:06 AM EDT
I totally agree with you, except I would rather see the PL/TSA combination toned down, not FB increased. I would, at the very least, like to see PL changed so that if you do more damage then HP on the target, it dies BEFORE the PL drain kicks in to reduce damage to nothing. That is the most annoying part I have seen at the higher levels, anyway.
I will tell you right now, no matter how boring ToE/PL/TSA is, you aren't going to get much support on overcoming it. Boring or not, people want to hold onto what works for them. And increasing FB isn't really fair, because then folks who don't use those damage reduction layers are going to get fried even worse. Finally, FB is _supposed_ to fail sometime, and is supposed to take things into melee where FB's dark side shines through. There's no such thing as something-for-nothing in this game -- there's always a trade-off. *smile*
Can you provide an example of a team you think you should be able to beat (but cannot) with your FB? I'm up for some character-analysis...
September 4 2008 11:51 AM EDT
I always thought fireball seemed less useful than Magic Missile, but apparently a ton of people love to use it anyway, and if there are people using it more than any other spells, I don't really see a problem, but as dingo said, post a character you should beat, but don't.
I do use damage reduction, and I'll tell you large FBs hurt a lot anyway once you get to melee rounds.
Fireball is the best DD around.
It does the most damage and can quick kill.
I've seen examples by a SFBM hitting for 250k first round on 4 minions.
September 4 2008 12:10 PM EDT
LOL, nice Pizzaman xD
September 4 2008 1:01 PM EDT
Really the only viable strategy for FB right now is SFBM, because only when Fireball is trained at extremely high levels can it take down minions in ranged, mostly because of the penalties it suffers in ranged (which I understand the reasoning for); however, it is also penalized in melee by hitting your own team members, which is typically not a good thing. So being penalized in ranged and in melee, SFBM is really the only way to go with fireball. I really think this spell needs a revamping of sorts. I'd like to see more creative strategies with fireball, personally.
September 4 2008 1:06 PM EDT
I think Fireball is fine where it is.
ranged DD modifiers make me sad :(
September 4 2008 1:07 PM EDT
You mean being boring, and localized to single mage teams? I really think it's silly, and allows for virtually no diversity...
I don't believe SFBM is the "only' option for fireball.
a 4 minion team with a FF familiar could probably have the same targets as SFBM, at something reasonable. Sure you take team damage, but a well built team shouldn't hope to go past the 7 or 8th round and still win anyway. AS and DM are good ideas.
Fireball does have issues, but it's not that bad.
For example, I think my team would benefit much more from FB than SG. But I like SG simply for the flavor.
September 4 2008 1:46 PM EDT
i use a 2 minion team with FB, and it works alright.
I do think it is a bit weak compared to the damages of what the tanks and melee DD's do, but we do fire it in ranged.
September 4 2008 1:54 PM EDT
I find it humorous that the strongest weapon for tanks fires in ranged, and the weakest DDs for mages fire in ranged.
September 4 2008 1:56 PM EDT
I find it funny that we have gone from mage blender to tank blender all in the space of a week.
September 4 2008 2:07 PM EDT
And all with a single skill nerf.
September 4 2008 2:09 PM EDT
"I find it humorous that the strongest weapon for tanks fires in ranged, and the weakest DDs for mages fire in ranged."
Yeah, I do agree that is a problem. Hopefully Bow damage will get reduced this month.
Cause you're hurting so bad...
Your team is poised to take a spot in the top 5, or at least take away a spot in the top 5 and you're looking for that extra boost to put you over the top. The damage coming out of your team is nothing to sneeze at... Heck you kill of my PL bat long before ranged is over. The ToE teams are supposed to beat the pants off you... otherwise everyone would be running a FB + Hal + DM abomination.
September 4 2008 7:28 PM EDT
Thanks novice, I will take that as a compliment (I think). :)
September 4 2008 7:28 PM EDT
nov, who the heck are you talking to?
September 4 2008 7:32 PM EDT
I have to say, the char Toast has been beating me consistently for a while. I thought it was the combo of the fb mage and hal familiar, but looking the damage really is quite low - 250k per strike across a four minion team.
I get beaten because of this:
Jam cast Dispel Magic on all enemy Minions (4,128,423)
But that 250k per strike across a single minion team isn't actually much different to other mage damage outputs at this level.
Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm flaming or supporting.
September 4 2008 8:09 PM EDT
I haven't really decided what I think should be done about this. I have thought that probably FB and MM should be increased in power. Although I also think that TSA/PL should also be dealt with also. All this aside, I love the way you politely brought this up, and I commend you for bringing this up in a very adult way. /me hugs Relic.
You know how consistently impressed I am with your setups Glory, I've sent you at least a few cm's saying just that.
Considering I've got 13.5m AS going for me, it does bother me a bit that you're very likely to beat the pants off me before the month is over. However, you've spent the price of three (IIRC) full NCB runs on your tat. The time it took to get where you are is nothing to sneeze at either.
I don't think FB needs a boost however, the damage I see you do is quite threatening, amd additional boosts would likely hand the top spot right to you. What's really hilarious is how your char has made me see what Ranger was complaining about as far as the NSC are concerned... I still think they are specific enough of an item they need no change. The power in them is in forcing teams to really invest in AMF if they want it to be useful.
Honestly, i would love to see people using melee weapons and melee DD, because where it stands, this is not Mage/Tank Blender, this is Ranged Blender....
^The forger seems to understand o.O
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