Damage reduced (in Changelog)

reduced all dmg 1/3
reduced physical damage another 1/3 (that is, to 4/9 of original)
reduced ToE reduction 1/3
reduced RBF dmg and reduction 1/3
reduced TSA to 3% regen (was 4%)

update: increased total battle rounds to 50

Nice!

Although I'm getting server errors now!

fixed

Correct me if I'm wrong but, if you reduce everything by 33%, there is no net change!

The damage done by archers is still massive, but now the only ability to absorb that damage is also reduced.

So nothing changed?

HP stays constant. This makes HP more and more important while making battles longer.

Pizzaman, you're wrong. :)

One change for me is that a couple of people I used to kill are now stalemating me. So, the net change is that you need more of whatever gives you damage. :)

Should the number of rounds be increased to compensate for the reduction in damage?

A battle that went for 20 rounds before would now go for 20/.666 = 30 rounds on average (or longer in the case of physical damage).

I think damage got reduced a bit too much. I'm getting alot of stalemates now. That and I like to point out magic damage wasn't reduced now the mages are beating me down twice as badly as before.

heh only lost 1 person from my fight list...and oddly enough it was a tank team lol.

Go Fig :/

Even after losing about a third of my fight list, I think this is a good change.

The first thing I noticed is that the TSA is a great foil against the HF.

I'm not sure how SoD users will digest the damage reduction especially while against FB mages.

Overall I think the changes are good, however I would decrease the TSA regen even more.

Glad I don't post before my brain wakes up (usually)... Saw this and had three thoughts:

1) Why did physical get cut twice? (That's the stupid one...)
2) A slight TSA buff disguised as a nerf
3) Stop my heavy tank now... >:)

A great change for me because my GA just got stronger! ;)

I was just thinking this, call me crazy if you wish, but shouldn't SG get a extra nerf of its own. Before the changemonth, SG did insane amounts of damage, but you had to worry about getting killed in range. Now with the tanks only doing 4/9 of their original damage, it is a lot easier to get to melee. Once in melee, SG mages with out damage any other person. This is just what I thought, please don't flame.

I'll say it again, any additional reduction (with out a similar reduction to the ToE) would render SG pointless.

I did more damage to walls with CoC, the only advantages SG have are that teams are unprepared for magic from the front, and the ability to foil the otherwise impervious ToE.

did GA damage get reduced by 1/3?

I am impressed. This is the perfect change. It brings fights to melee, giving melee tanks a better chance; archers damage was more than halved, which was absolutely necessary; walls can't be practically invincible (though the TSA was only reduced by 1/4, making it more viable) with a TSA, and ToE aura from a different minion. Probably the best changelog I've seen thus far.

> magic damage wasn't reduced

what part of "all dmg" did you think does not apply to magic?

Ah, my fightlist was just owned ;), GA is harsh now :(

Can we get a change to Fireball then? Now we have six rounds of useful FB, and then 44 rounds of roasting your own team? All a team neds to do in order to beat FB is make it to melee, pretty much.

That doesn't seem right, even if the FB splash damage was also reduced by a third (which I assume it was).

I would assume archers are a bit miffed as well? It is that much harder for an archer to get the job done in ranged before melee hits and the archer loses a large amount of hit ability...

But incidentally, my fight list didn't actually change (so far...)

I've just gained a couple of opponents on my fight list, and lost no one! The JKF now rocks as a wall!

And even with ToE and TSA reduction, PL is now, once again, that much more effective for very little training.

Doesn't matter whether a battle is 25 rounds or 50 when the opposing team is absorbing/regenerating all damage...

A sample battle against a single minion FB mage with 8 AC with a ToE Equipped.

Look at the drastic difference between my Hal's damage and my FB.

It appears that my Hal does so little damage now that it cannot even come close to overcoming the ToE damage reduction, the biggest hit was 191K and the average appears to be around 115K. So my Hal, if he hits 4 times in a round against a ToE, only does 500K damage. Teams will well over 5 mil HP will never die in ranged anymore especially with ToE/PL/TSA throw into the mix.

My FB has a level of 8,850,765 and my HF is the 5th largest tattoo and largest Hal in the game. (The Nightwatchman lvl 6,869,999)

Hal shot God Of Fire [191959]
Hal hit God Of Fire [119191]
Hal shot God Of Fire [147430]
Hal hit God Of Fire [74439]
Butter's Fireball hit God Of Fire [758015]

Hal shot God Of Fire [178183]
Hal shot God Of Fire [100215]
Hal hit God Of Fire [109173]
Hal shot God Of Fire [80345]
Butter's Fireball hit God Of Fire [904021]

Hal shot God Of Fire [145811]
Hal hit God Of Fire [101261]
Hal hit God Of Fire [108358]
Hal shot God Of Fire [105198]
Butter's Fireball hit God Of Fire [706784]

/me thinks if you reduce physical damage by 5/9 then in ranged the ToE should have had the same nerf because now it eliminates the effectiveness of an archer.

Relic, tiny difference in the FB and the Hal -- the Hal has no BGs (which could help with the Hal damage up to 45% or so), and the FB mage has a CoI. So, knock 15% or whatever off the magic damage and up the Hal damage by 45%.

With that taken into account, when the Hal does hit four times, he would be doing about the same amount of damage as FB, wouldn't he?

as the hal currently hits so darned well, you even got two hits in round five of ranged against the second highest evasion in game, what exactly do you think the counter to hal's should be if not the toe or is there another counter i am not aware of?

A direct counter to Hal would be EC. If you don't count that as a foil, then you can't count AMF as a foil for mages...

if i am not mistaken though, even with ec taking dex down to nothing the hal would still hit every time in ranged? if your ec was high enough i guess the strength reduction part might make the hits be for so little that it is a counter.

the toe is designed for just this purpose though. i think i would need to see more data on it to see if it seems out of whack. what level toe were you going up against by the way? is it of comparable size to your hal?

While its true that this even further nerfs FB, the subsequent nerfs to everything else is far greater, which makes this less of a ranged game and into a ranged/melee game. However, I am concerned that SG may now be over powered, being that it is near impossible to kill minions in ranged, and the spell is still incredibly good. SG can still one-shot my mage with 4.5 mil HP (and yes I realize it has a lot of armor, but even w/o the armor, a 5-6 mil SG would be able to one-shot my mage with an 8 mil FB).
The game is nearly balanced, and I don't think I'm the only one that has something to say about SG.

don't put your mage in front... it takes 10 rounds to kill a rear minion with SG, 11 for familiar teams.

Nerf SG and watch the ToE instantly come back as the tat of choice for the top. Right now in the top we've got RoBF, ToA, EF, and two ToE. It's the most diverse the top 5 has been in a while...

Don't really have a choice where I put my mage novice, being that I'm a single FB mage. I understand your reasoning, I was only expressing my concern of SG minions one-shotting stuff.. which in my opinion, should never happen (unless there is a significant difference in MPR/PR).

Excuse me for the double-post, though it is worthy to note:
what SG can do in 11 turns, it would take my 8-mil FB perhaps 20-30 turns to do now (and I typically don't survive that long).

I mentioned it in the Evasion thread, but here it is again: UC now equals poop. Archer teams beat UC teams now. If that doesn't say enough, I dunno what will. UC lost a large part of it's defensive aspect, but that's ok and understandable because everyone's Evasion got nerfed in the same way. Now, it's lost more than half of its damage aspect. Even if Bananco was right and it was overpowered, this nerf would be on par with cutting the RoBF's damage in half and taking away all magic resistance... and nerfing Evasion, in response to the Evasion/RBF problem we had for a while. I would like UC to be made viable again, please. We had a good thing going. I would also like the SoD to become viable again. 4/9 of previous damage? What, so that even an initial hit against a 0 AC minion will be below the ToE cap and the opponent's GA level? Before, it was understandable that the splash damage was going to have that happen, but if the first hit against the front minion is that way, too, it just turns the SoD into a kill-myself machine. Am I wrong?

I mentioned it in the Evasion thread, but here it is again: UC now equals poop. Archer teams beat UC teams now. If that doesn't say enough, I dunno what will.
UC lost a large part of it's defensive aspect, but that's ok and understandable because everyone's Evasion got nerfed in the same way. Now, it's lost more than half of its damage aspect. Even if Bananco was right and it was overpowered, this nerf would be on par with cutting the RoBF's damage in half and taking away all magic resistance... and nerfing Evasion, in response to the Evasion/RBF problem we had for a while.

I would like UC to be made viable again, please. We had a good thing going.

I would also like the SoD to become viable again. 4/9 of previous damage? What, so that even an initial hit against a 0 AC minion will be below the ToE cap and the opponent's GA level? Before, it was understandable that the splash damage was going to have that happen, but if the first hit against the front minion is that way, too, it just turns the SoD into a kill-myself machine. Am I wrong?

P.S. Sorry for the double-post. I had it on HTML and got a big text-block, so I hit "Back" and fixed it, but I think the exact same text already went up. Can someone delete the first one, please?

/me waits for the "fixed better"

I was really happy to see the previous balance between ranged and melee. Now I'm not sure why we have ranged...

Double the number of ranged rounds and remove the second 1/3 reduction for ranged. The ToE shouldn't be the answer to everything.

The 50 battle rounds change related to FB is laughable. It was impossible for your team to survive 30 rounds before. Please take away backlash in melee and potentially also a reduction in power in melee to compensate.

I disagree. And, by making these changes, I'm sure Jon disagrees too. This was never intended to be Ranged-Blender; I believe Jon wants to move the battles away from Ranged combat, and into Melee. By reducing the damage as much as he did in ranged, it almost guarantees melee fighting. The ToE is not the answer to everything, because it too was nerfed.
This is coming from a single FB mage who depends on ranged kills for success. I think the new changes were much needed.

oh this sucks considering i have 11mil st at time of my testing and the biggest weapon in the game i did a max hit at the time of 900k now this is just crap so i guesss mages now can rejoice cause they have just been made way stronger even though they have lost most of the defense benefits of evasion

You don't roast your team in melee because you are a single minion, I would call you a bit biased on the FB in melee argument. :)

Mages can rejoice? Are you mad? I now get hit 2-3 times by ranged (even in the first round!!!) and melee tanks, whereas when I had evasion (the effect before the nerf) I RARELY got hit even once. I still draw with archers with far less MPR than me because of this fact; though with the new changes I can at least stand a chance, and thats really all I could ask for.

2 complaints:
1) SG is still a little too strong
2) How are tanks supposed to be able to work in Ranged/Melee now with the WA as it is?

wow, my evasion was nerfed, now my FB is nerfed, i kill myself before doing anything. This is lame.

Relic, I do not disagree with you that FB needs a boost. I was not disagreeing with your statement, I was disagreeing with novices.
I have already commented previously that splash damage is stupid, which makes Single Fire-ball mages practically the only viable option. I do think splash damage in melee should be done away with as it serves no purpose. However, the current melee damage has been nerfed enough as it is; so I disagree with decreasing it any further.

"1) SG is still a little too strong"

Data? Facts? Reasoning?

How about a 4/9th's reduction in the effect of specialty xbows?

Just my thoughts
1)ToE buff vs tanks
2)PL buff vs all
3)Mega Tank Nerf(do less than half original damage)

ok dmg reduction? its ridiculous i'll have to put another couple of millions in the x of my bow and i wont put a single xp in hp anymore, all in strenght

dmg reduction no way its ridiculous i cant win i am frustrated :(

Mega FB mage nerf.

We need another free retrain soon, now that both my damage dealing and evading is rendered close to useless. Im sure a few agree with me.

Also, why not just remove the splash damage from FB and just make it weaker in melee. Splash sucks, and this would get rid of a ton of single FB's, and allow for even more unique strategies.

Vectoid, you shouldn't be killing people with 1 mil more MPR than you in the first place. It was absurd that you were drawing with me before the nerf. Gain more MPR and the problem should be solved.

"ok dmg reduction? its ridiculous i'll have to put another couple of millions in the x of my bow and i wont put a single xp in hp anymore, all in strenght

dmg reduction no way its ridiculous i cant win i am frustrated :( "

your team still beats mine occasionally with over 1 million less mpr.

i tend to think that the cth on weapons still needs to be reduced and nothing should get 100 percent.

"Data? Facts? Reasoning? "

It was too strong before this change (look up previous posts), and with everything getting reduced at a flat rate (tanks getting slightly extra nerfed, WA still not good enough for them to use a decent weapon in both Ranged/Melee), SG is just as strong if not even better now.


On a side note:
My question is, did the RoBF damage get reduced 1/3 (from the all damage) then 1/3 again when the reduction was done?

I think the RoBF only got reduced by 1/3.

solar you are so right i was mad at the beginning because i could not kill the stronger character i use to defeat, but now i realize i can destroy way many ennemy of approximately my size
way to go Jon reduce the damage, reduce everything !!!!hahahahahha

and yeah i must boost my MPR but my next minion is 30 millions and i heard that soon new minion wont come with untrained xp anyone can confirm?

i am in love with Carnage Blender

Brilliant!

Haha, 50 rounds; awesome.

> even with ec taking dex down to nothing the hal would still hit every time in ranged?

if your EC is high enough to take a hal's DX to nothing then most likely its ST is down to nothing as well, 2 hits a round for 0 damage isn't a bad thing :)

There's no way physical damage has been reduced to 4/9, I still hit for 50-60k a hit, and I was hitting for probably 80k a hit before. Then again, UC does have that weird huge damage spread, so maybe it's just coincidence.

"The battle ended in stalemate after 50 rounds of combat"

lol my first one!!

Only real changes for me with this are adding toast back to my list (I'm assuming I'm back to 100% win against him), I think I'm able to beat Hubbell with my familiar behind the Junction minion... the ugly part is LA beating me with the familiar in front simply because his ToE is now able to deal with the reduced damage.

SG WAS the only answer to the massive ToE... not so much anymore.

Lovely. I just went from 600K hits on a ToE team to 80K hits. :/

Can we up the max percentage of life leech from VA please?

I would now regen more HP per round using the newly nerfed TSA than I do triple hitting my opponents.

Koyaanisqatsi
Score 3,868,183
Power 4,415,569
MPR 4,000,095
Net Worth $257,465,179

Greneral Grievous
Score 3,435,558
Power 2,518,613
MPR 2,120,427
Net Worth $29,050,392

Greneral Grievous defeated Koyaanisqatsi (Blue Army) after 50 rounds of combat

WooT?

Great change ever.


Provides me with much amusement.

Well, I certainly like the shift to 50 rounds of combat. Although this does put a much slower pace on battles, typically.

...even though they still take a single click. ;)

Can we, pretty pretty please, get a GA nerf? At this point, it's 5/9s harder for a tank (even harder for a SoD, what with the splash being tiny) to overpower GA, which means you basically dispel ALL of it, or you take full damage from it every round and eventually die from taking so much damage every round for 6 rounds.

I imagine FB and, to a lesser extent, CoC, are in the same boat. Even things like UC will find it hard to get rid of GA, as their damage is fairly small as well.

Train DM if you have problems with GA.

Dispel Magic 3,385,906 3,490,625 2,708,724 2,792,500

I have DM trained, thank you very much. The problem is (I'm sure Sut won't be a big fan of it. :) ) that GA is becoming binary; you either dispel all of it, you're in that tiny area where your small amount of damage is greater than their even smaller amount of GA, or you take full damage from it for the entire battle. Not exactly kind to SoD, CoC, or FB.

CoC is probably fine because it does a ton of damage, but I suppose GA is more effective against SoD and FB now. I likely feel the effects of it myself, possibly from the teams that regularly defeat me.

So... if the battles are extended to 50 rounds can we expect the amount of ranged rounds to increase as well? If not, how about a reduction to the penalty once the battle goes beyond 6 rounds?

Hey, my suggestion in that last thread actually made a change, now we will see more melee fights and melee weapons/dd being used, finally!!!

with reduced damage and longer battles, this makes ranged fighting much much less effective, looks like im going SG.

i feel bad for the biggest SOD>

Where is the grace....

Indeed, Tyriel, but I don't mind GA as much because it IS dispellable.

Not so with ToE/PL/TSA. The only way to get through that is to hit harder, and at this point, the question is basically, "How the heck do I hit harder any more?"

It seems the only way to beat that combination now would be to have a VB, or use SG. Other than that, ones offensive would have to be extreme...

Soul Devourer's explosive shot hit Hardcore [51824], Omg! [66740], Little Anthony [63987], Shutdown [53101]

biggest SOD + 8mil ST + many mil Dex.

Result : puny.

and how much did you hit for LA?

can i just say i would like enc changed so that only the ranged weapon is considered in ranged rounds and the melee in melee not all grouped under enc at once and can we get an increase on the wa

Vorpal blade won't do squat.They are pretty much worthless now.

I myself think this was too much damage reduction.Maybe if the only thing done was reduce tank damage 1/3 then it could be viable.

But now with PL/TSA and more importantly large AS teams against teams that don't use DM will rule.

I also believe that with a 1/3 damage reduction and a lengthening of combat to 40 rounds with 8 of them being ranged along with adjustment to BTH for ranged weapons to offer at least a chance they will miss would have worked better.Of course I think it would be more realistic if a sword or hammer actually did more damage than a bow.Not much more maybe ,unfortunatly bows do much more damage than melee weapons because there "aren't enough ranged rounds to do damage as rounds for melee to do damage".If you want to kill teams in ranged then build a strat to do so.I am sure it can be done.....I just wish people would quit moaning about not being able to kill their enemy in ranged when most of the people fighting them have specifically built strats to last until melee.

I am not totally screwed by these changes but I have lost a few good targets and I will have to adjust my strat in time.What sucks is that it will be a very long time since my team was based on doing small amounts of damage and surviving till I kill my opponent.

Then again maybe I should have taken Rangers advice and sold out when he did.

LA kills AA in 8,
So 6 Rounds of Puny damage from AA's sod, then you kill his 2 mil hp minion in 2 rounds. :)

So SG is still pumping out massive damage and AA was barely doing 900k Damage to me in Melee...........

ah no my team is as good as it gets for a ranged team hits every round has massive st doesn't have to worry about ga and my dx is massive as well so good luck designing a ranged team that can kill in ranged. i manage but how many have my toa or my weapons.

Zaekyr 8:26 PM EDT
"Vorpal blade won't do squat.They are pretty much worthless now. "

Tis why we needed to get rid of high ranged weapons, we had too many, not enough big melee weapons (if someone had it, they never even got to melee to use it). Just upgrade the VB and it will be fine.

HP is a must factor to survive now. I am glad i chose the right path.

oh and in relation to mikels point i also have a +50 MgS which grants no ac so doesn't boost SG but should be reducing its damage by half and it still kills both my dudes in the first two rounds of ranged i would say that is one strong spell yet interestingly enough my st is stronger oh well i guess mages think that's fair enough

why is everyone using LA's mega SG as example? That much XP into a DD should be dominating.

Score 5,386,149
Power 6,815,120
MPR 3,629,280
Net Worth $920,037,812

not exactly on an unlevel playing field against LA, the comparison is fair ;)

"Just upgrade the VB and it will be fine."

Working on seeing how well this holds up ^_^

why because my stats are being used in the example and my st, dx and weapon are all massive not to mention = best MgS :P so of course where going to compare stats at similar level u can't compare me to someone whose dd spell is 2mil compared to my nearly 9mil st and 250mil nw sod

I think you are right. at similar level, a MGS should be beating SG.

I'm amused, but my score just jumped into the 3M range.

Must be my PL wall :)