How about UNLIMITED purchaseable BA ? (in General)


Sickone October 5 2008 6:57 AM EDT

Solves just about everything AND is a huge CB$ sink.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 6:58 AM EDT

Solves nothing, makes USD spenders very very powerful, no thank you

Sickone October 5 2008 6:58 AM EDT

...which means CB$ will skyrocket back in price, maybe even reaching above the old "10$/mil".

Sickone October 5 2008 6:58 AM EDT

...which means USD spenders are screwed (pardon my french) :P

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 6:59 AM EDT

lets take LA with that RoE give him unlimited BA purchase power, see him grow from 4.3 to 5mil mpr in two days.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:01 AM EDT

So let him. Who cares ? He's slowly gaining an advantage over everybody else anyway.
Do you think he could afford to spend that much USD which is *GUARANTEED* to be unrecoverable, especially if the price of CB$ climbs fast ?

Cube October 5 2008 7:01 AM EDT

It would also take away the reason for anyone to buy NCB BA.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:04 AM EDT

Spend 4 times the cash, get 4 times the XP, but same amount of CB$.
Sure, it's more expensive overall to buy NCB BA, but you get to work less.
You could just as well remove the N*B XP bonus and only leave a NUB cash bonus in place.

lostling October 5 2008 7:06 AM EDT

personally? no to this... would give USD too much power :) making it either do or die

Sacredpeanut October 5 2008 7:08 AM EDT

What precisely does this solve?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:09 AM EDT

Sickone this whole idea is flawed, this wouldn't make CBD more expensive to buy.

This idea would give USD spenders a huge advantage over none USD spenders. People don't don't want to spend cash and just play this game for fun would lose interest very fast.

The NUB with its FREE! ba would get unlimited BA resolve in huge amounts of cash flooding into the market dropping the price even lower.

No sickone, this is a problem of supply and demand. Too much Supply not enough demand. This is the only reason why prices are so low.

This idea is just dumb.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:10 AM EDT

I begto differ. If unlimited BA purchase is introduced, a lot more liquid CB$ will vanish into it, which will make CB$ prices climb a lot, which in turn will render USD spending *LESS* powerful.
And not just on XP, on gear too, due to the sudden increase in gear price.

So, overall, while at first look it might seem like it gives a huge advantage to USD spenders, it quickly becomes obvious CB$ price will become prohibitively high so that ALL USD spending gets nerfed.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:15 AM EDT

"Sickone this whole idea is flawed, this wouldn't make CBD more expensive to buy."

That's the whole point...


"This idea would give USD spenders a huge advantage over none USD spenders. People don't don't want to spend cash and just play this game for fun would lose interest very fast."

I have *NEVER* spent a single dime. I'm not even a supporter, ferchrissakes. I don't want to use cash to get CB$, I don't want to use CB$ to make cash.
If CB$ prices rise, that makes LESS people want to pay the CB$ rates asked, and the number of CB$ that changes hands for USD drops drastically !
If anything, it makes people that DON'T want to use USD at all be even more interested in the game, since they have a feeling they CAN compete with USD spenders... because nobody would be insane enough to throw hundreds of dollars on CB$ on a monthly basis.



"The NUB with its FREE! ba would get unlimited BA resolve in huge amounts of cash flooding into the market dropping the price even lower. "

Easily solved by giving only the regular amount of BA for free, the rest being available at the same price a NCB would have.



"No sickone, this is a problem of supply and demand. Too much Supply not enough demand. This is the only reason why prices are so low."

And this addresses this exact problem.
It HEAVILY reduces supply, since people will pump it into the nothingness of BA purchase.


.. October 5 2008 7:16 AM EDT

Even when the rate was $10/m, there was still a lot of people buying CB.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:18 AM EDT

man I don't even know where to start.

Even if CBD prices go up, USD spenders don't care!!!!!

When this game started it was 100k for 10 USD even that was affordable for USD spenders. Do you actually think that raising it back to 10USD/1mil CBD would make any difference.

Jeesz, no thank you and try to read any of those comments up there.

If you want to make a cash sink just lower rewards the rewards and up the price of BA!!!! not this stupid idea.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:25 AM EDT

250 active users in the past 7 days.
Just how much CB$ do you think these people can generate ?
And how much of it goes into gear and purchased BA now ?
Imagine what if that BA purchase limit is lifted... how much CB$ liquid do you think will there still be generated as opposed to simply consumed ?
With a paper-thin supply, prices will go up so much until people could actually sell their daily income for a significant amount of cash for them.
I wouldn't be all that surprised if you end up seing 1 mil CB$ going for well over 10$, maybe even over 20$.

And anyway, what does 1 mil CB$ buy you ? 300k XP ? Less ?
Just look at how much top MPR characters sold for lately.
Do you honestly believe many people will still pay that much cash on CB$, at those rates ?
Most people would just rather use it themselves.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:27 AM EDT

No you didn't need USD you had the NUB when you started that little character of yours. You didn't need to buy one single BA. If you did spend USD you could have ended like LA there.
If you start a NCB you will see how expensive that is.

"Sickone this whole idea is flawed, this wouldn't make CBD more expensive to buy."

That's the whole point...

I'm sorry are you saying that you want CBD to become less expensive to buy????


Besides start any NCB at 1 mpr, buy 100.000 ba at that price. USD spender of course. It cheap to buy at a low mpr. Start fighting, resulting in 3mil mpr in a week. And you still have your whole ncb in front of you. No USD spender can't resist that. Doesn't cost that much either. Even with 10usd/1mil CBD 855 *100.000 thats only 850 USD cheap if you compare it with what Freed or Ranger spent back in the day.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:28 AM EDT

"When this game started it was 100k for 10 USD even that was affordable for USD spenders. Do you actually think that raising it back to 10USD/1mil CBD would make any difference."

Yeah... how many ? One 100k buyer per day ? One 1 mil buyer per week ?
How much USD has changed hands on a daily basis ?
I'm willing to bet on average a lot less as it does now.

It's not the fact that SOME people WILL pay just about any price... it's how many will pay it.
I have no problems accepting one or two insane guys that spend half their salary on the game to be the top two characters, but I do have a problem when the cash I make working in one day could buy me everything I worked for in-game the past half year.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:30 AM EDT

"No you didn't need USD you had the NUB when you started that little character of yours. You didn't need to buy one single BA. If you did spend USD you could have ended like LA there.
If you start a NCB you will see how expensive that is. "

This is a NCB. I played a third of my NUB, went away, got back when it was almost over.



">>> Sickone this whole idea is flawed, this wouldn't make CBD more expensive to buy."

>> That's the whole point...

>I'm sorry are you saying that you want CBD to become less expensive to buy????"

No, the opposite. I initially misread your line as "this would only make CB$ more expensive to buy".

Sickone October 5 2008 7:33 AM EDT

"Besides start any NCB at 1 mpr, buy 100.000 ba at that price. USD spender of course. It cheap to buy at a low mpr. Start fighting, resulting in 3mil mpr in a week. And you still have your whole ncb in front of you. No USD spender can't resist that. Doesn't cost that much either. Even with 10usd/1mil CBD 855 *100.000 thats only 850 USD cheap if you compare it with what Freed or Ranger spent back in the day. "

You can buy at most 1600 BA in one lump.
After you spend that the cost goes up significantly.
You have to make at least 40 separate purchases before you reach 3 mil MPR.
It will cost you on average at least 300 mil CB$ to get to 3 mil MPR in the first couple of days.
That's (presumably) around 3000$, probably more.

.. October 5 2008 7:36 AM EDT

I'm pretty sure there were more buyers when the rate was $10/m than now. I haven't seen anyone buy CB for quite awhile.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:36 AM EDT

Now compare that to the character "Sal" was trying to sell recently, at well over 3 mil MPR.
He was asking for 500$ "buy it now".
He didn't even get remotely that much.

And you're telling me somehow magically somebody would be willing to spend 3000 instead of 500 and also have work to do ?
I seriously doubt that.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:36 AM EDT

No this isn't the answer to anything period.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:38 AM EDT

You could get a 15 mil MPR character in 6 months *right now* for the "measly" price of 30k USD if you only could enlist the aid of 6-7 more people.
Why doesn't anybody do that ?
Eh ?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:39 AM EDT

Because you would be using a bug.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:39 AM EDT

Or, you could easily top LA//FTW for about 5000 USD with just 2 people. Nobody does that either. I wonder why that is.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:40 AM EDT

The bugs called "having a NCB" and "spending cash" ? :)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:40 AM EDT

because you would be abusing the system.

Sickone October 5 2008 7:41 AM EDT

Yeah I know what you mean, still, the argument is that you COULD do that. And somebody already did something like that, which sets a precedent.
And I bet it WILL be allowed.
Yet still nobody else will be crazy enough to do it using REAL cash.
They at least used CB$ gathered so far.
I doubt people would spend REAL money to get there.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 5 2008 7:44 AM EDT

LA used real cash and look where it got him now. What if someone is actually that crazy? I know Freed did some mad stuff.
My point is that unlimited BA would also ruin the game play. It would screw up the economics as we know it. And of course give USD spenders a huge advantage over everyone else. Even if the prices, as you claim, would go back to the 'normal' levels.

QBJohnnywas October 5 2008 7:46 AM EDT

Death [84x11000] (+250) worth $236,668,572

This thing coupled with the largest tattoo in the game was pretty much unbeatable for a few years. And both of those items were the result of a couple of pretty large USD spenders. If those guys had access to unlimited purchasable BA you can guarantee that absolutely nobody would have ever caught up to them. No doubt whatsoever.

Now while I may have the view of 'if people want to spend their money like that then let them' what do you think that does to the game overall? If you had no chance whatsoever of catching up to the top ranking players? Without spending loads of money?

I think you'll find it will put a lot of people off even trying.

Sacredpeanut October 5 2008 8:02 AM EDT

1) Buying NCB BA becomes pointless, I don't buy the "4x BA cost but 4x the XP" either.

A non NCB can get around 50-70% of the cost of their BA back from cash rewards whereas an NCB only gets around 10-20% of their cash back. Therefore running an NCB would be almost twice as expensive in real terms and therefore pointless.


2) Demand for CB$ is relatively inelastic (some people like me simply wouldn't be US spenders regardless of the price of CB$) whereas I believe Supply of CB$ to be relatively elastic (I know I would be tempted to sell CB$ if the price was say $20 per million). Therefore unlimited BA, while raising the price of CB$, would actually increase the volume of CB$ sold (I could draw the supply and demand diagrams but can't be bothered).

3) It would wreak havoc with clan rewards, you would have to cap the amount of clan rewards you could earn in a day.

So again, what exactly is the "problem" that is being addressed here? The low CB$ rate is simply a function of supply and demand, nothing more.

lostling October 5 2008 8:17 AM EDT

the most important point of all :) you get money from spending BA too incase you did not notice :)

another main point is that those who spend alittle USD would grossly overpower people who do not... you dont have to spend alot to increase the gap by a large amount

AdminG Beee October 5 2008 8:25 AM EDT

This suggestion was designed to give Todd Freed an unfair advantage.

Sacredpeanut October 5 2008 8:28 AM EDT

During crazy money time I get more cash per BA than the cost of a BA. I could go crazy during a six hour bonus period and spend say 10k BA, get a large amount of experience, and probably save a large amount of money in the process. That doesn't sound like an ideal situation to me.

Colonel Custard October 5 2008 8:48 AM EDT

Make crazy money time just that: crazy.

"I don't know how much money I'm gonna make today! Better not try it; it's crazy."

Sickone October 5 2008 8:50 AM EDT

"Now while I may have the view of 'if people want to spend their money like that then let them' what do you think that does to the game overall? If you had no chance whatsoever of catching up to the top ranking players? Without spending loads of money?"

Are you telling me that I *could* catch up to the top players now if I'm not spending a lot of money ?
First off, from around 8 months of active play (one as NUB, four as NCB, three as regular player), I'm at a measly 24.5 mil CB$ NW in gear and I have a 3.3 mil tattoo.
During the 6 and a half months on this character, I fought 96k battles (so on average a little under 500 a day), which is, I guess, halfway decent for a non-USD-spender that has other things to do other than wake up every 6 hours and play the game ?

Now, tell me... what exactly ARE my chances of catching up with the top guys ? Precisely zilch, that's how much. I would even have trouble getting into 6/20... maybe if I put in another 6 months on a new NCB, with a LOT of luck and after selling all my gear to scrounge up some CB$, I might just get close to 6/20. JUST MAYBE.

I don't see how this is a problem.
I already can't catch up with the top, no chance in hell, not unless I butcher my personal life or start spending cash.


"It would wreak havoc with clan rewards, you would have to cap the amount of clan rewards you could earn in a day."

The clans could use a little bit of rework, actually, and I don't just mean clan points, but just about everything about them.




"During crazy money time I get more cash per BA than the cost of a BA. I could go crazy during a six hour bonus period and spend say 10k BA, get a large amount of experience, and probably save a large amount of money in the process."

At around 1 mil MPR, yeah, sure, you can still do that, get more cash than you use up. Just wait until you get around 2 mil MPR where I am, and barely be able to make the cash back during crazy money times. Get even higher, and probably lose cash in the process.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] October 5 2008 8:53 AM EDT

people seem to be replying as though this is a serious idea, c'mon just admit it is a joke :)

Sickone October 5 2008 8:54 AM EDT

It's "reduction to the absurd" actually ;)

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 6 2008 4:57 AM EDT

Well for starters, you're not supposed to catch the top guys if you do just under 500 BA a day.

Secondly, your idea is flawed because well, it should be...

UNLIMITED FREE BA.

This solves everything and makes USD entirely useless while creating a huge CB$ cash sink. The cash sink is that since everyone will have unlimited CB$ income to spend on the items generated into auction basically whoever had the most money when the auction ended would win it and that money would disappear. People would bid as high as they can go knowing they'll be able to make it right back.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw October 6 2008 5:24 AM EDT

Current market status: High supply, low demand.

Market status after this idea is implemented: Low supply, high demand.

Jon has done a great job at kicking USD spenders in the rear. Let's not destroy a great game here.

Obscurans October 6 2008 5:27 AM EDT

Isn't that simply Enter-key blender?

Adminedyit October 6 2008 5:31 AM EDT

mmm click fest, unlimited free BA and an automatic character reset when you fail a bot check ;8^)

Sickone October 6 2008 5:42 PM EDT

Josh... how should I put it... even from an "reduction to the absurd" standpoint, your proposal, is... well... ouch :)
First off, not all auctions are from the auctioneer, most auctions nowadays are from the other players - and with this, even more will be from other players, since nobody'll want to sell any items to the store (it would be pointless).

Unlimited BA for a price, that makes some sense... free BA always also makes some twisted sense... but free unlimited BA, ouch, no :)

DoS [Demon Forging] October 6 2008 5:50 PM EDT

Won't happen, bad idea. Need not say more.

Solare October 6 2008 5:53 PM EDT

It's true that by allowing BA to be purchased using real money could allow some people to close the gap to the top and 'catch up' to FTW. It also allows top players like FTW to do the same and further increase the gap. It's a double-edged sword that really solves nothing in the long run, except making the game based on real money. I'm definitely not for this sort of thing; it takes the fun out of the game.

BadFish October 6 2008 6:02 PM EDT

"mmm click fest, unlimited free BA and an automatic character reset when you fail a bot check ;8^)"

YES!!!!

BadFish October 6 2008 6:14 PM EDT

By the way...


I'm 100% in agreement with Sickone. To all those people saying it will encourage USD spending, by making it so the only way to reach the top is buy massive amounts of ba...

1)This idea raises the VIRTUAL amount of power you can achieve; it does not encourage using USD to back the system. Yes, if you spend 5000 USD, you'll become unstoppable and probably will ruin the game for everyone. But nobody will do it. And if you think there's someone who really, truly would, just make the BA cost more to make it tougher for them. If 5000 dollars isn't enough to deter someone, make it 15000, or 50000.

2)There's no end to the problems with our economy we could fix if we had a cash sink like this. If we could realistically eliminate, say, 50% of liquid assets that opens up countless doors for changes in fight rewards, bonuses and bonus periods, etc.

3)EVEN IF SOMEONE DID buy massive amounts of BA: Let's define massive first. 2000 a day? 3000? 5000? Because there reaches a point when there aren't people to fight anymore. I don't know about you guys but with my 5 person fight list it would take me weeks to fight off 5000 BA. In fact, a nice deterrent to purchasing monster quantities of BA with USD would be to extend the coma-period. With a 10 person fightlist, increasing the coma period by even 10 measly seconds would probably shave off a significant amount burnable BA in a day. And that's saying someone literally sits at their computer, ALL DAY, farming each character heal.

BadFish October 6 2008 6:18 PM EDT

I apologize for the triple post, but this just occurred to me:

By raising the realistic amount of MPR you can achieve with an average amount of work by implementing Sickone's idea, there would be whole new aspects of the game to explore. Who knows how certain skills will function at drastically boosted levels, how their growth curve will change their popularity due to the ability to pour more exp into it, etc. And that's just fun for the whole family.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 6 2008 6:20 PM EDT

"But nobody will do it."

methinks perhaps several someones have already put in more than 5k into the game.

when the usd spending was at its peak, the cb2 to usd ratio wasn't nearly as buyer friendly as it is today.

BadFish October 6 2008 6:23 PM EDT

Dudemus: So just make it so it costs too much. Lower money rewards and increase exp rewards, maybe, to make money more valuable and the exp you get from your purchased ba less valuable. Using the basic concept of supply and demand against itself, to raise the price of CBD and make it impossible, or at least prohibitively expensive, to spend any significant amount of USD on the game.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 6 2008 6:33 PM EDT

as it is now?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] October 6 2008 6:37 PM EDT

Or you could just put an exponential curve on how much the Ba costs each day

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 6 2008 6:38 PM EDT

if it is a non-game breaking cash sink that is what the goal of all of this is, why not just ask for a reduction in cash rewards or an increase in healing costs?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] October 6 2008 6:40 PM EDT

because that doesn't satisfy my urge to kill people >:]

three4thsforsaken October 6 2008 6:42 PM EDT

why are we even considering this?

People before were complaining how expensive a NCB was, now we want people to be able to buy MPR for USD?

Explain to me why this is fair. Or are you guys just joking? I can't tell D:

Sickone October 6 2008 8:28 PM EDT

Half joking, half serious... playing devil's advocate, reducing the issue to the absurd, etc ;)

Colonel Custard October 9 2008 2:07 PM EDT

"Or you could just put an exponential curve on how much the Ba costs each day"

How about this:
Every time you buy a certain number of BA, it costs more for the next set! PERFECT!

So I can buy 216 BA for 2k each to use during crazy XP time, but then I'd have to spend 2.5k each for the next 216, and 3,150 each for the next 216, etc. If you wanted to spend 5000 BA in a day, you'd have to pay a function of (BA cost)*(1.25^23.4) or something stupid like that.

Brilliant?

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 9 2008 8:55 PM EDT

No. My idea was brilliant. Sorry. Fail.
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