Auctioneer system is flawed (in General)


Steve G November 8 2008 11:44 PM EST

maybe its just be, but i believe that the auctioneer system is truely flawed, any auctioned rare item has its price inflated by talion, if you check the auctioneer sales he has almost all the winning bids on rare items (and over bids), and if you check out the rare items for auction not by the auctioneer, 99% of the time its talion as well


some of your replies may be "well its part of the game, everyone plays differently"

my question to you is do we really need someone artificially inflating the market for his own capitalist gain at the expense of the playing public, how is anyone supposed to be able to use the auction system if theres no chance they will actually get a rare on their own without paying the price that talion has inflated it to in order to keep his own items value terribly high

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 8 2008 11:52 PM EST

i am not sure that i understand, if he is inflating the price past the market value, wouldn't he end up buying all of the items or at the least risk buying many items? how could he continue to do this without limitless funds?

Mortifer November 8 2008 11:54 PM EST

You're absolutely right. I don't think you should be able to bid on an item if you aren't there either, it makes it impossible for someone with less money to get anything, because someone with more money will put the 'max bid' extremely high, making it more of a competition than a system, considering you can always sell a good item for far more than it's worth in this way (auctions are supposed to be all about chance and luck)

Steve G November 8 2008 11:58 PM EST


dude

what i am saying is that if he didnt bid on ANY of the auction items, i garuntee prices would go down because as of now everyones forced to pay above what he paid or an even more inflated buy it now option. he knows that the auction system is the only way to introduce new items into the game (rare ones) so if he continues to keep the prices as high as he does with his initial bids (which is usually max of what he would pay and be able to make a profit off of) knowing that he generally wont be outbid

so technically he more or less has limitless funds because hes taking advantage of having funds to begin with, killing any shot of normal players to get items for reasonable amounts, in some cases im sure people dont even bother anymore with it, thus giving him some items for even cheaper, but do you see a price cut then? no of course not, he will charge full value OR more

kevlar November 9 2008 12:05 AM EST

it seems he uses it as a stock market of sorts. He bids the low end of what the item usually sells for, then re-sells it for a 50k - 100k profit. Thus, his limitless funds.

I guess it can be annoying, but I if people keep buying from him, it's all about supply and demand. This game has some very interesting angles in respect to the way people roll the dice playing it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 9 2008 12:08 AM EST

so he is both driving up prices past market value and getting items for bargain prices due to the fact that everyone else has just given up?

i can pretty much guarantee that if he did not bid them up someone else would.

unless i am missing something. perhaps you could show some auctions that you think he drove up past market price along with some past auction prices that show the lower market value. i think you may find that market prices are fairly stable, especially considering the lower usd to cb2 ratio that we now have.

kevlar November 9 2008 12:14 AM EST

He is driving up prices... but not by much. It's just like he is the middle man and resells for 50-100k profits... sometimes more. But I think sometimes he loses too, because he makes the sales for 5-6 days, with a tempting buy now price which makes the profit, but does give the chance to bid up on the item too.

I think it's crafty, annoying, but crafty. I just wonder if he ever sleeps? >:)

Steve G November 9 2008 12:26 AM EST

im just saying, if someone had the money to annoy him as he has us, bid on all his, make him pay closer to the price he pays to purchase it by raising over it, if he chooses to do this then he makes less, or when you get past his max bid and you get it, you sell it for half the profit he would have made, thus helping the distribution of items at least a bit more fairly, and still getting something smaller for your time, and potentially putting him out of business unless he chooses to sell it for that reduced profit price thus keeping the flow to everyday players easily

Cube November 9 2008 12:42 AM EST

socialists..

=)

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 12:43 AM EST

you are saying he bids on auction and sells it for more? why would someone wanting the item not overbid him in the first place? auctioneer rare items goes for a whole week, it isn't like he stays up for 3 hours auction that shows up.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 12:46 AM EST

the only way to make a profit is by taking advantage of the fact that some people wants the item right away (instant gratification) as oppose to wait a bit for a new auction to show up. In which case, whoever bought the item can still do that. e.g.

BoF - tailon might pay 700k for it, then sell for 750k on auction.

if he isn't allow to do that, and say I buy it for 650k, then someone offers me 750k for that item, I would be happy to sell, then wait for the next auction to replace it.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 12:48 AM EST

the dreaded triple post

you are forgotting that it takes time and effort to go through all the auction and place a bid, then to sell them, it is quite a hassle at times, and since it is a "free" market on CB, anyone can cut out that profit if they desire.

three4thsforsaken November 9 2008 12:49 AM EST

it's a low profit margin, so he's not getting much out of it. It's really not messing with prices as much as one would think, central bank does that.

Cube November 9 2008 12:54 AM EST

It's actually a service he's doing making them have BINs. If he takes the time to bid on everything for such a low profit, good for him.

kevlar November 9 2008 12:56 AM EST

it's clever, and yes it must be work... or else why wouldn't anyone be copying that 'strat' ;)

TheHatchetman November 9 2008 2:08 AM EST

many do... most on smaller scales, as Talion has really been heavy into buying these past few months... Before that he was making money organizing large sales for other people... play the market for every penny and the end result will be insane...

Anyone remember Nerevas?

FailBoat[SG] November 9 2008 3:59 AM EST

God Nerevas....

But seriously, what Talion is doing is just playing the market to earn a slight profit by offering items with BINs. While I admittedly am grumpy he bids on everything under the sun, it makes it easier in case I want to buy it for a set price. Because once you learn his pricing system, you know precisely how much you need for items. ^.^

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 9 2008 4:29 AM EST

If tailon replied to this he'd probably complain about me driving up half the prices he pays for items.

QBJohnnywas November 9 2008 4:36 AM EST

Josh's reply there says a lot; it's not like Tal is the only person bidding; and the resell is never for huge amounts; looking at the prices on his auctions the BIN is lower than I would ask for for example.

I actually think the Talion shop is pretty cheap. And at least it's resell for CB not USD. That would annoy me.

DoS [Demon Forging] November 9 2008 4:53 AM EST

Just two things:

Whoever said it was hard or time consuming to do what he does on a daily bases is running on dial-up on a windows 95 or some other wonderful of the time model.

He does make a good profit.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 4:56 AM EST

Just two things:

Whoever said it was hard or time consuming to do what he does on a daily bases is running on dial-up on a windows 95 or some other wonderful of the time model.

He does make a good profit.


then why don't you start running the same business. he doesn't have any kind of monopoly on the rare items in auction. no mafia will come and get you if you overbid him.

lostling November 9 2008 6:06 AM EST

*shrug* no point penalizing someone because they are smart... or giving money to the stupid =x

.. November 9 2008 7:27 AM EST

I use to do this all the time and I once made a couple million in a week. How is that artificially inflating prices? If he didn't bid on the item someone else probably would have.

"how is anyone supposed to be able to use the auction system if theres no chance they will actually get a rare on their own without paying the price that talion has inflated it to in order to keep his own items value terribly high:"

Talion can sell his own items for whatever price he wants, it's your choice to buy it off him.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 9 2008 9:47 AM EST

Nothing wrong with the system. (Oh, but I miss auction sniping with the old bid system :P ) If he can bid low on items, it's because nobody wanted to pay more than him.

If he can sell for a profit, at a higher price, it's because someone wanted to buy at that price. Auctions work that way you know?

CB is always complaining about inflation, and high prices, but NO ONE ever refuses to pay those inflated prices they find stupid. The seller does not have all the power. He has a lot, but CB buyers rarely take their responsibilities. ''OMG I need my item now, even if I pay 100k over what it's worth.'' Well, too bad for you then.

Talion is 100% legit in his maneuvers. And he'll make money as long as you buy his things. Great for him.

Phaete November 9 2008 11:08 AM EST

Higher prices for auctions -> More money for auctioneer
More money for auctioneer -> More money gets destroyed
More money gets destroyed -> Less deflation
Less deflation -> More expensive items.

But that is only half the picture.
I think a seller on the auctions (except for auctioneer) would be happy to receive at least the base cost from bids by Tallion, instead of wildly fluctuating prices.

I vote that Talion is actually keeping the market more stable then without his actions.

To bad you are on the other side (needing to buy) instead of selling, otherwise you could even profit.

DoS [Demon Forging] November 9 2008 12:19 PM EST

"then why don't you start running the same business. he doesn't have any kind of monopoly on the rare items in auction. no mafia will come and get you if you overbid him."

You make it sound like I don't or haven't before. You sir need to check my transfer logs.

Sickone November 9 2008 2:32 PM EST

"You make it sound like I don't or haven't before. You sir need to check my transfer logs. "

In other words, everybody can do it, and the auctioneer system works as intended, just fine and dandy, as peachy as it can be...
...right ?

DoS [Demon Forging] November 9 2008 3:09 PM EST

Yes.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 9 2008 5:05 PM EST

Double yes.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 8:45 PM EST

this is a free market, the auctioneer sells to the highest bidder. I think it is efficient in the sense that it reflects what things are worth. It is a bit like the share market actually, if you think something is undervalued, buy, overvalued, sell, and the market price adjusts eventually. I don't think you can artificially inflats share price (item price) over the long term (unless you buy so much that the public opinion on the share change, but that's more than buying a few item when it is being auctioned)

Ariac November 9 2008 8:58 PM EST

I miss camping. Jon should make them spawn in stores and cost BA again. >_>

Xiaz on Hiatus November 9 2008 9:03 PM EST

Camping was fun - but it meant campers had a monopoly on rare items - don't want that again.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 9:56 PM EST

I don't want camper to have monopoly, but I wouldn't mind Jon putting 1 or 2 rare item in store a day as a "catch", and still spawn enough in auction. It means that you can camp for fun ("ooooh, I got a rare in store"), but not camp as work ("right, I just made 1m yesterday for that AG")

Steve G November 9 2008 10:33 PM EST

you guys have missed the point entirely, you say his prices are low but they could be lower, im against the hording of items in general too so that dosnt help...its not like im ANTI talion which some have perceived me to be, im just anti monopolization of the auction system.

you claim that if we want it we could always outbid him, but that wouldnt be such a major problem if he didnt always do large mass bids the moment he sees a rare enter the auctions

few of the items he usually bids on and hsi min bids if anyone dosnt wanna bother making the 100 bids to find out where his end

A Shield of Capacity [0] bid 1.5m
An Amulet of AC [0] bid 800k
An Enforcer's Crossbow [4x1] (+0) bid 100-140k (30k-80k value)
A Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x1] (+0) bid 325k
A Blade of Thuringwethil [73x1] (+0) bid 325k
A Mageseeker [5x9] (+8) bid 475-540k -
A Combat Gi [1] bid 275k

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 10:39 PM EST

its a "hidden" auction, feel free to bid whatever you think its worth and see what other people will pay for. why is a big early bid a problem?

Steve G November 9 2008 10:54 PM EST

he forces you to constantly raise, till you pass his bid (which is normally the winner) or you just give it to him cheap, at which point he still sells it for the same price as the one he payed much more for.

its like he forces you to bid him up

Wizard'sFirstRule November 9 2008 11:01 PM EST

but then he is still prepared to pay more than anyone else, so say he bids 1m, and tries to sell for 1,050,000. There is nothing stoping others from bidding 1050000 in the first place, and the item is worth 800k to him, and he sells it for 850k, there is nothing stopping you from bidding 850k, and watch him buy it for 900k (hence unable to sell it for profit)

when the price inflats too much, people may just sell the ones they have equipped, and forces the price back down.

scarcity is the only thing that can keep prices up, and if that's the case, the auction system is not to blame. 1 person buying cannot cause an item to be scarce. (try buying enough of corn to make it worth 5m, not going to happen)

Timberwolf November 9 2008 11:16 PM EST

1. It's play money, your kids won't starve if you spend an extra CBD or two on a Corn.
2. It's an auction system, bid the amount you want to pay and let it ride. If it sells for more than you bid, you didn't want it bad enough.
3. It's play money.
4. Stop buying things at inflated prices, once enough people do that prices start to drop due to supply and demand.
5. Did I mention it's play money? It has no real value.

Wizard'sFirstRule November 10 2008 12:15 AM EST

timberwolf, I think you missed a very important point, it is play money (although it does convert to USD for some people, so its not so much "play")

Cube November 10 2008 1:34 AM EST

So you are against... being able to bid whatever you want on any item you want like real life?

Then I guess I was serious when I said "Socialists" heh.

Usul [CHOAM] November 10 2008 1:57 AM EST

Dear Steve_G

Just because you can't get the item for the price you want, doesn't mean the price isn't what the market reflects.

And even if he wants to jack up those prices for whatever idiotic reasons, unless he's Jon's roommate, he will run out of cash. But the items will still keep respawning, people will eventually get the items at the proper market price.

This thread is pointless, and yet it gets more than 20 posts:) Good job.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 10 2008 12:09 PM EST

This thread is not pointless, in a market as tiny as the one here it is quite possible to manipulate prices and make a buck out of the uninformed/lazy/uncaring. I havn't followed what Talion is doing but Nere did it and Nixon used to do it to some extent.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 10 2008 12:11 PM EST

P.S.
Nixon was more interested in stabilizing prices than making cash.

Sickone November 10 2008 12:55 PM EST

And that's a bad thing because... ?
Better said, it's worse than camping because... ?
Or, it's worse than having to be online to snipe a winning bid because... ?

You either accept the system is good as it is, therefore whatever people do with it... well, kudos to those who can earn a decent income that way... or you say the system is bad, in case you propose a BETTER one. Do you have a better one ?

Next up : people claiming we should have fixed prices for all items and all items should be available in stores in infinite amounts at those set prices.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 10 2008 1:06 PM EST

I don't think I made any judgements in my posts, just interested in the facts :)

Lord Bob November 10 2008 2:12 PM EST

"any auctioned rare item has its price inflated by talion,"

You forgot me. I've been doing this for a while too, I'm just not as good at it as Talion. How I envy him.

"my question to you is do we really need someone artificially inflating the market for his own capitalist gain at the expense of the playing public,"

MY question is, do we really need to modify the auction code or enforce new rules to prevent a guy (or two, or three...) who has a great understanding of CBs economy and saw an opportunity to gain from it from doing something that's perfectly legal?

Players like Talion are like the real, human versions of Central Bank, and if that awful feature is to remain in existence - like so many of you seem to want - you should all be praising all the "Talions" out there, if only for finding a way to profit off the market without breaking the rules.

Rubberduck was right, this thread is pointless.

Steve G November 10 2008 2:32 PM EST

so you guys are saying that if when i have money and i chose to do what talion does, and sell it for HALF of his profit you still wont think that he overcharged and inflated his prices due to the fact that hes generally the person who gets new rares 90% of the time?

Sickone November 10 2008 2:38 PM EST

"so you guys are saying that if when i have money and i chose to do what talion does, and sell it for HALF of his profit you still wont think that he overcharged and inflated his prices due to the fact that hes generally the person who gets new rares 90% of the time? "

That's precisely what we're saying. Good luck trying to pull it off.

Lord Bob November 10 2008 3:23 PM EST

"so you guys are saying that if when i have money and i chose to do what talion does, and sell it for HALF of his profit you still wont think that he overcharged and inflated his prices due to the fact that hes generally the person who gets new rares 90% of the time?"

Yep!

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] November 10 2008 3:31 PM EST

Making your money by flipping without adding any value/useful service along the way, the modern dream :P

.. November 10 2008 3:42 PM EST

"so you guys are saying that if when i have money and i chose to do what talion does, and sell it for HALF of his profit you still wont think that he overcharged and inflated his prices due to the fact that hes generally the person who gets new rares 90% of the time?"

Why would he be overcharging? If people are buying his items, then obviously they don't think he's overcharging.


"he forces you to constantly raise, till you pass his bid (which is normally the winner) or you just give it to him cheap, at which point he still sells it for the same price as the one he payed much more for."

Just wondering, how is he forcing you to raise his bid?

Last Gasp November 10 2008 4:20 PM EST

One word: "Waaaaaaaaaaa!"

It's a game. Power to Talion I say for having the ability to make this element of the game his.

miteke [Superheros] November 10 2008 4:36 PM EST

I used to do this all the time. It's not as easy as you think. The guy is working his butt off for pennies of real world money. I would guess he does it for the pure thrill of turning a CB buck. To resell an item you must first know the market, then spend the time entering bids, then reselling for just the right price to get maximum turnover. If you resell for too much you get hit with the auction fee which will reduce your profits significantly. If its in change month, you also run the risk of losing money. The typical turnover is more like 200K, not 50K, unless you're in it just for the principle of the thing (after auction fees a 50K difference is squat). At today's market values for CBD you are looking at less than 50 cents. That works out to less than minimum wage here in the states since it takes a lot of time to do this. You would think it only take a minute or so, but for every auction you win, you lose a bunch, and for every time you place a bid, there are 4 other visits you don't find anythin new to bid on. The time really does add up. In order to push the market up he would not only have to have the funds, but also have the item slots too. In order to make a decent profit he will want a reasonably quick turnover too. That, in turn, means he has to catch the items at 200K below market value to make a decent return. So, I doubt VERY much that he is taking all the rares. Basically he is taking advantage of items selling below market value and not causing inflation at all.

Having done this I assure you he is not getting rich, not causing inflation, and not getting anywhere near minimum wage for his efforts. He is simply a merchant at heart and can't help himself :)

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 10 2008 6:29 PM EST

Actually its pretty easy to do what he is doing. Decide whats the most you're willing to pay, bid, win or lose. If you win, sell for more. I just look at the going rate for the item and set the max I'll pay for it. If I get it, I'll resell with a min of what I paid and a buy now around the going rate. If people pay, then people pay. I'm not inflating the price at all. The people who let me win and later pay more did. =P

Half the time when I do it I only buy the item because I know if I don't or talion doesn't then central bank will.
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