How does my evasion work? (in General)


AdminShade March 19 2009 4:27 AM EDT

I have: Evasion: 37 / 34

So I have 34 points trained and 37 points in effect.
Also I have a 40% penalty apparently because I only have 20 dex.

So what is my 'actual' or 'real' Evasion? Is it just simply taking 60% from 37 or do I need to take 60% from the level I have in effect and get the matching effect?

Please enlighten me.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 19 2009 8:07 AM EDT

i cannot find a post and the wiki seems to state otherwise, but i seem to remember a change where the stated effect takes the penalty into account so that you are removing 37 pth. i will keep trying to verify that though and post link.

AdminShade March 19 2009 8:19 AM EDT

If that indeed is the case, then training DX would increase this?

If that would be the case then the Wiki is awfully wrong in stating that for the amount of level in effect I also have the 37 points.

Daz March 19 2009 8:37 AM EDT

I recall DX being required for Evasion, which is why I got rid of it for my mage strategy.

QBRanger March 19 2009 8:50 AM EDT

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002X5s

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 19 2009 10:29 AM EDT

is your evasion effect listed in the train page the same as in post battle stats?

AdminShade March 19 2009 11:28 AM EDT

Ahh, there's the thing:

Total Evasion 30

:D

thanks!

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 19 2009 11:30 AM EDT

no worries, i knew it was listed with modifiers somewhere, it just took me a bit to remember where.

QBRanger March 19 2009 11:39 AM EDT

So basically without having dex=evasion level you are losing 40% of your evasions xp. Then the new evasion level is created.

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:06 PM EDT

well judging from the numbers I have now:

I have in effect an Evasion of 37 and in combat a 30. That's about 81% of it's trained Evasion

When looking at levels then:

In effect: Evasion 76,200 (37)
From wiki: (30 ) 42,972
From wiki: (31 ) 46,581

This means I have in between 38.9% and 43.6% penalty. The 40% sounds very plausible so the penalty is for the level rather than the effect.





Which leads me to the following:

Say, I want to make an Evasion of 50 without training DX.
I would need a level of 151,556 for this Evasion.
I would however need to train (of have in effect after bonuses) a level of 252,594 which would have an Evasion of almost 62.

This Evasion would cost me 252,594 * 12 = 3,031,128 say a _roughly_ 3 million experience to reach this. (this is however not taking into account any bonuses I might have so this number for me is much smaller)



When also training DX:
I train an Evasion of 50, level 151,556, which costs me 1,818,672, say roughly 1.8 mil exp.
Training the same level of DX would cost me the same amount of exp.

So training an Evasion of 50 _with_ DX would cost me 3.6 mil exp as opposed to 3 mil to train a higher but still having 50 in effect.



Taking into account my 24% bonus to Skills and 12% penalty to DX:
An Evasion of 62 would need to be 252,594, thus 203,705 before bonuses (i.e. trained.)
This would cost me only about 2,444,460 say 2.5 mil exp.

Training with DX I would need an Evasion of 50 (151,556) , thus 122223 before bonuses.
Cost of training this would be about 1,466,676 say 1.5 mil exp.
Now training the DX needed (151,556) would be 172,223 due to the penalties.
Cost of training this would be about 2,066,676 say 2.0 mil exp.

Training the total would be still 3.5 mil as opposed to 2.5 mil for Evasion alone.

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:08 PM EDT

Summary: as a mage, just train Evasion instead of worrying about the DX ;)

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 19 2009 12:09 PM EDT

Thanks, Shade, because I was hopelessly lost.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 19 2009 12:14 PM EDT

are you getting a different evasion level on minion as opposed to familiar in the post battle stats?

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:17 PM EDT

My familiar does not have Evasion. I do not have Junction ;)

QBRanger March 19 2009 12:21 PM EDT

Nicely done Shade.

Imagine the xp hit when/if you go with an AoJ instead of the AoF with its bonuses to skills.

That -10% for the corn is a killer in both dex and skills.

But... what if you used a HoC and EBs +24 on your junction minion.

An Evasion of 62 would need to be 252,594, thus 203,705 before bonuses (i.e. trained.)
This would cost me only about 2,444,460 say 2.5 mil exp.

Training with DX I would need an Evasion of 50 (151,556) , thus 122223 before bonuses.
Cost of training this would be about 1,466,676 say 1.5 mil exp.

You would need a dexterity to match the dexterity or another 1.5 mil exp in dexterity.

So you would need 2 x 1.5M = 3.0M to train both evasion and dexterity to get to the (50) evasion effect

vs 2.5M exp

Not that much difference, but since evasion does not give defensive dexterity is the extra 500k xp worth it to have some dexterity vs low dexterity tanks/mini tanks?

Possibly!!

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:21 PM EDT

dudemus has leant me an AoJ +10:


Trained Evasion: 32 / 34
Total Evasion me: 26 fam: 26

So both me and my Familiar then get the same Evasion.

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:24 PM EDT

Indeed, using a Helm of Clearsight and +24 Elven Boots would net me the same bonuses for Skills and would make my trained DX quite some smaller.

Then I would indeed be able to also block DX based hits instead of just stopping people from hitting due to the to-hit on their weapons.


Different strategies, different pros and cons ;)

QBRanger March 19 2009 12:26 PM EDT

New Question:

What if you do this with a HF and your juction minion does not train dexterity.

Let us say you have evasion like Shade: Evasion: 37 / 34

Does it work like:

A) The evasion is cut on the minion then transferred to the HF

B) The evasion is applied to the minion and the familiar, then recalculated for each?

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:28 PM EDT

I highly think it would be this:

A) The evasion is cut on the minion then transferred to the HF


Reason is that I think Junction is calculated last.

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:30 PM EDT

Let me rephrase my words:



I think this will happen:

A) The evasion is cut on the minion then transferred to the HF

But then your Familiar _does_ have DX in which it's Evasion would be raised to the point at which it matches the DX trained.

So in a way, both A and B happen a bit but not quite ;)

QBRanger March 19 2009 12:31 PM EDT

Yes Shade.

I just tested this on a farm character.

Evasion was Evasion: 56 / 58 and in battle the final number for both the minion and HF was 45.

AdminShade March 19 2009 12:32 PM EDT

That means that while your HF is training DX, it doesn't get taken into account?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 19 2009 12:33 PM EDT

i had wondered why jon chose the phrasing he did with the aoj. bonding instead of junctioning or somesuch.

QBRanger March 19 2009 12:42 PM EDT

Apparently the conversion is done before the junction takes place.

This could be quite a buff for BL on Jiggy's. If BL is trained max the minion for only a trivial cost, does it get max effect on the Jiggy?

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- March 19 2009 12:51 PM EDT

Here is all my data surrounding my current Dex // Evasion. I have to run to work so if it's of any use in your calculations cool, if not, cool.


Post battle Total Evasion 100

Brooch of the Highborne [0] (+10) (AoF)
A Pair of Elven Boots [10] (+26)
A Pair of Elven Gloves [3] (+13)
A Helm of Durin [9] (+21)
Aegis of the Scarlet Commander [0] (+40) (MGS)
Shard of the Virtuous lvl 1,651,313
A 2008 CB T-shirt [1]


----------- LeveL ----- Raw Level - Effect - Raw Effect
Dexterity - 1,029,094 - 751,164 ---------------- Unlearn for 8,563,041
Evasion --- 685,793 --- 403,408 --- 91 ----- 74 - Unlearn for 4,743,842

Total bonus:
+26 Ebs = +26% to dex and skills
+13 Egs = +13% to dex and skills
+10 AoF = +30% to skills
+21 Hod = -1% to dex and skills
RoBf = +165,000 points to evasion

Totals = +38% to dex, +68% + 165,000 trained points to evasion.

AdminShade March 20 2009 5:52 AM EDT

Ranged Hits / Shots / Avg Damage 0 / 0 / 0 9 / 11 / 36,568


Someone is starting to miss attacks against me! :D

Colonel Custard [SeeD] March 26 2009 11:18 AM EDT

How do you have a bonus to skills and a penalty to DX?

QBRanger March 26 2009 11:25 AM EDT

AoF,

It gives a bonus to skills but none to dexterity.

The 36% swing between dex and skills is a named +11 AoF.

AdminShade April 10 2009 1:26 PM EDT

Total Evasion 63

Working my way up to 75 (or 100) in effect :)

AdminShade April 12 2009 8:06 AM EDT

Total Evasion 74

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 12 2009 8:18 AM EDT

good luck Shade
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