Max hit in range per round is 6? (in General)


Little Anthony March 24 2009 7:53 PM EDT

I thought it was 5. Apparently, Freed hit me 6 times first round in range before i started to regenerate HP.
Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [134564], Little Anthony [54337], Alive's familiar [71685], Alive [70223], Eat [45513]
Eat absorbs damage [134564]
Eat absorbs damage [54337]
Eat absorbs damage [71685]
Eat absorbs damage [70223]
Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [112471], Little Anthony [49840], Alive's familiar [65277], Alive [64129], Eat [40749]
Eat absorbs damage [112471]
Eat absorbs damage [49840]
Eat absorbs damage [65277]
Eat absorbs damage [64129]
Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [121153], Little Anthony [50016], Alive's familiar [67272], Alive [65848], Eat [41466]
Eat absorbs damage [121153]
Eat absorbs damage [50016]
Eat absorbs damage [67272]
Eat absorbs damage [65848]

Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [87661], Little Anthony [38788], Alive's familiar [50691], Alive [50123], Eat [31351]
Eat absorbs damage [87661]
Eat absorbs damage [38788]
Eat absorbs damage [50691]
Eat absorbs damage [50123]
Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [101360], Little Anthony [45345], Alive's familiar [59265], Alive [58435], Eat [37083]
Eat absorbs damage [101360]
Eat absorbs damage [45345]
Eat absorbs damage [59265]
Eat absorbs damage [58435]
Cocka's explosive shot hit Omg! [103983], Little Anthony [42973], Alive's familiar [55631], Alive [54267], Eat [35327]
Eat absorbs damage [103983]
Eat absorbs damage [42973]
Eat absorbs damage [55631]
Eat absorbs damage [54267]

noidraug March 24 2009 7:56 PM EDT

Helm of Crealsight : Allows for an additional Ranged Combat round of attacks :>

QBRanger March 24 2009 7:56 PM EDT

As in a previous thread someone got 7 hits one round using UC.

However one can get unlimited hits as long as they spend money upgrading the + on their weapon.

Little Anthony March 24 2009 8:03 PM EDT

nerf Freed please, I had some evasion already. i thought it counts somewhat. I guess not.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 24 2009 8:06 PM EDT

new low

TheHatchetman March 24 2009 8:27 PM EDT

technically, there is no "max number of hits per round" unless you mean the maximum number of hits currently possible... In that case, it's currently 6 for ranged, and 7 for melee. With more pth, it could go to 8 or 9, or even 10 per round...

00 March 24 2009 8:32 PM EDT

agree with nov.

SuperHD March 24 2009 9:24 PM EDT

wawa - what ! 6 hit per round !!! i never did this even if i got +300 range to hit... it was my dream to hit 6 times a round, Freed did it ! wawawow !

its amazing ! 6 hit per round ! thats such an accomplishment congrats freed !

ahhh i guess Sling of Death rule ! its seem way better than elven bow.... ahhh i should have kept my SoD at the beginning.... but whats done is done !

Way to go Freed !!!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 24 2009 9:38 PM EDT

That's two rounds. Noticed the spacing after talking to Ranger.

Sickone March 24 2009 9:39 PM EDT

A SoD only has 60 base to-hit, so at best he should have been getting 160 from full DX advantage.
Freed has an AoL with +11, and named +31 BoF, so that's 11+16.5 = +27.5 on top of his (unnamed) SoD's +262, for a total of +289.5

In total, he should have gotten only 449.5% chance to hit, NOT 501% or higher, since for 6 hits, you need at least 501% chance to hit (and even then you only hit a 2th time 1% of the time).

Something is not right. He shouldn't have been able to hit 6 times, even if enemy had no evasion at all.
My only guess is that somehow, the AoL/BoF leadership bonus was being boosted above normal in the ranged rounds for some reason.

Sickone March 24 2009 9:40 PM EDT

Ah, two rounds... now, that explains it perfectly... 3 hits per round is more than normal.

AdminTitan March 24 2009 9:41 PM EDT

I noticed that as soon as it was posted, I just assumed LA accidentally hit enter.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 24 2009 9:43 PM EDT

His point about regen is interesting... does the TSA know about the HoC round?

Sickone March 24 2009 9:45 PM EDT

Probably the TSA ignores the regeneration in the first ranged round if the wearer doesn't have a HoC himself :)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 24 2009 9:52 PM EDT

i thought all along that he was asking how many ranged rounds there were. that is why he said he thought it was five and showed the log with six rounds. after the other replies though i wasn't sure.

Little Anthony March 24 2009 10:18 PM EDT

my mistake. it is 2 separate rounds. TSA skips 1 rounds (due to extra HP) had me thought it was 2. So his max hit in this sense is only 4

QBRanger March 24 2009 10:25 PM EDT

Yes,

The TSA does not start its regeneration until all the AS hp are lost.

It only regenerates natve hp.

You started to lose native hp in round 2 or later.

Therefore no TSA regeneration in round 1.

SuperHD March 24 2009 10:46 PM EDT

Dog shot Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1622590]
Dog shot Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1692450]
Dog shot Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1198573]
Dog skewered Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1479004]
Dog skewered Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1100805]
Dog skewered Little Anthony with DMON BOW OF POWER [1575998]
Dog cries "chow-bye!"


oh my godness i made it i made it !!!!!!!! 6 hits in a round its true !! holy moly its possible !!! i did it in round 5 !!!
with a +309 pth.. :P

Sickone March 24 2009 11:11 PM EDT

+309 +100 base with 1.0 archery +100 from max DX advantage -> 509%
you have a 9% chance to hit 6 times :p

Little Anthony March 24 2009 11:52 PM EDT

i take that back. NERF THE OTHER GUY.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 24 2009 11:59 PM EDT

Wow, SuperHD does it again!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 25 2009 6:11 AM EDT

give me a countermeasure to this! and I don't mean millions costing DB's because they clearly don't work that well.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 25 2009 6:48 AM EDT

Evasion.

Oh wait... ;)

QBJohnnywas March 25 2009 11:04 AM EDT

Ah are we back to archers dominating again? That didn't take long did it?

Yeh GL, evasion...woops.

QBRanger March 25 2009 11:10 AM EDT

Archers certainly do not dominate.

Let us look at the exbow first.

Then we can look at all that NW on SuperHD's bow.

So NW should mean nothing? I guess that is the consensus of CB?

It is certainly not mine.

If someone put all the NW of his bow into a set of DBs, things would be different.

O WAIT, someone did--Mikel.

And guess who SuperHD loses to? Could it be? Mikel?

O no, archers are too powerful.

Ranger blows his nose at this crap once again.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 25 2009 11:13 AM EDT

/me likes to point ranger towards battle logs of SHD.

As you see on the offense SHD loses more to mikel then he wins.

However if SHD is on the defense, he gets 50%.

So it only takes time until those big bad +300!!!!! db's of mikel are over taken by pth and dex.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 25 2009 11:19 AM EDT

i do not think that archers are too powerful, however i think that with the current evasion skill 100 base to hit is just too darn nice to only have it on two ranged weapons.

either lower it to be in line with melee weapons or raise some melee weapons/uc to be in line with elb and hal.

QBJohnnywas March 25 2009 12:17 PM EDT

"And guess who SuperHD loses to? Could it be? Mikel? "

True, but only half the time and with nearly a million - count that NEARLY A MILLION - MPR difference.

I'm quite happy for somebody of a lower MPR to do well, there's enough variables involved that MPR levels out quite nicely, so that the invisible MPR is what counts. But nearly a million MPR difference, over a quarter of Mikel's MPR...that's saying something quite loudly.

And, wait a minute...I'm running an archer myself. There's never been a better time. Oh wait except when we had evasion. Otherwise, it's the same old CB isn't it. Archers to the rescue...

QBRanger March 25 2009 12:36 PM EDT

Mikel's DB and SuperHD's Elb are roughly the same NW.

And Mikel still wins over 50% of the time.

Archers do not rule.

Let us again not forget that Super is using an elb that is insane in its NW.

For myself, even using Mikel's Elb, I lose to JKF characters, Exbow users, and ROS GA character.

I think the game is well balanced now with the exception of a couple things.

The exbow is the primary source, IMO, if imbalance.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 26 2009 8:30 AM EDT

and ranger it happened, you happy now? 90% win chance with an odd stalemate every so often.

Could I also point to the one million mpr mikel has over SHD?

BluBBen March 26 2009 8:34 AM EDT

Do you think Mikel got 1mill MPR advantage when counting his AMF to?

QBJohnnywas March 26 2009 8:35 AM EDT

Probably not. Invisible MPR and all of that.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 26 2009 8:43 AM EDT

"Do you think Mikel got 1mill MPR advantage when counting his AMF to?"

Do you think SHD got 1mill mpr less when counting his DM too?

yes...

Ancient Anubis March 26 2009 9:18 AM EDT

One point I would like to make something can only be uber if more than one user is dominating with the same strat in this case an 3 minion team with archer damage dealer.

Fact is not everyone has invested all their time indeveloping one kick ass weapon everybody been focusing on other things like building up other armour, buying ba everyday giving it away in competitions :) etc.

So just because someone aimed to do something and achieved it lets merely applaud and work on our own methods of countering - ToE, Dbs, Evasion, DX, EC. Just because u may have spent all your focus to combat mages cause theres so many don't start asking for a cheap nerf to help yourselves out, heck i got slammed in one of my posts for this very thing asking for a nerf that was considered a boost to me.

P.S. Congrats SuperHD keep firing away :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 26 2009 9:27 AM EDT

The point is, not matter how uber you build or train something, there should be just as uber a way to build or train a defense.

Obviously, DBs don't cut if for the build side of things, and Evasion is now laughable for the trained side.

If equal NW DBS were as effective as an Elbow, then Mikels far superior MPR should let him win. Every time.

What is the equivalent defense to a 100% base chance to hit Elbow?

BluBBen March 26 2009 9:30 AM EDT

You'll have to consider the x in SHDs bow also. If Mikel would put that extra CB into his DBs I think he would dodge.

Ancient Anubis March 26 2009 9:37 AM EDT

oh yeah also add to

ToE, Dbs, Evasion, DX, EC

the SoC

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 26 2009 9:41 AM EDT

"You'll have to consider the x in SHDs bow also. If Mikel would put that extra CB into his DBs I think he would dodge."

I would, if X wasn't linear in cost and DBs suffer from a curve the same as the big weapons pth.

As it stands, you have to equal the NW in the Bows PTH with DBs, then you still have to overcome the 100% Base chance to hit.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 26 2009 9:49 AM EDT

assuming that someone is basing all of their info on one post is erroneous. when evasion was first changed in september, i stated that evasion was no longer a counter for weapons with 100 bth. even with it trained incredibly high and ranged & melee penalties they were still hitting and hard.

during my whole ncb run, using several of those counters (granted there are multiple uc bugs) the one type of opponent that i have had trouble with much lower mpr's beating me regularly are 100 bth teams.

all that this post has allowed is one more straw on the proverbial camel's back.

i am not just asking for a nerf though, i also suggested giving some melee/uc the same bth as hal/elb.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 26 2009 9:52 AM EDT

ToE = nerfed into dust, you need a rather large tattoo to stop 6 shots per round at 1.5mil damage a pop

db's = not as effective as the 100% CTH, unless you give it a 100% evasion chance if the PTH on a weapon and points on the DB are the same or smaller.

Evasion = in its current form it just sucks. EXP waisted I call it

dex = dex does not decrease the number of times you get hit. Besides dex is now playing second fiddle to PTH and CTH (dex based CTH is a joke)

EC = easily thwarted by a ToA, who has an EC of 10mil effect anyway? Anything below complete nuking opponents str is waisted EXP.

SoC = you joking? only reduces 0.5% physical damage for each point. and a +30 costs 23mil (for only 15% damage reduction) which can be rather be spend on a big AC

AC, you missed that one = stops working when it comes to multiple hits. It can stop one hit a round, but when someone hits for 1,5mil a pop. It basically stops working.

lostling March 26 2009 9:56 AM EDT

make up your mind =x is ranged damage too strong or too weak lol =x

Colonel Custard March 26 2009 9:58 AM EDT

+30 named BoF
+8 (?) AoL
Level 7,889,694 named ToA

So that gives around 24 Leadership PTH plus something like 30mil in added PTH, after the PTH on the bow with naming, of course.

Actually, by my count, he should have a fair bit more than 309 PTH. 313 before factoring in what the ToA would add.
In other words, Mikel's DBs should dodge all of his bonus PTH, plus another 7-10 points past that. That sounds like it's exactly what DBs are supposed to do. DX advantage and base to-hit should give him in the 90% range of getting two hits per round. I can see how that could kill Mikel.

Whoever mentioned the archer on a 3-minion team, think of it as a single archer. That character was run as a single minion NCB until one week before the bonus expired, meaning the minion that is now an archer is at least at 2.5 mil MPR by himself, even counting retrains (he was ~2.3 mil MPR in June 08).

Is it imbalanced? I don't know. I've always been of the inclination that 100 bth was too much, but at the same time, I also objected to the 100+bth cap being put on DX advantage hits. Given almost 4mil DX compared to 200k, I think it's fair to get 2 hits sometimes. Maybe "sometimes" like 60% of the time rather than 90%, or maybe not. And given 10mil+ ST and x12000 on the weapon, it's fair how devastating those hits are.

QBJohnnywas March 26 2009 10:10 AM EDT

I'm not complaining about archers, just making an observation. Between real archers and Hal archers I've seen a lot on the climb up with this NCB, and they're usually the powerful teams at the level I've been at.

It's no surprise that my comeback after the junction/AoJ thing was an archer.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 26 2009 10:11 AM EDT

melee & uc need some loving anyways. as an experiment it would be nice to see how giving uc and perhaps the mod, els or both 100 bth.

i do think then that more people would say that 75 or 90 bth should be the best in game.

Colonel Custard March 26 2009 10:41 AM EDT

Henk: according to the wiki, 1 point of AC reduces .167% of damage, meaning you'd need about 90 points of AC in your shield slot to get the equivalent 15% reduction. The wiki also lists +63 = $22,981,527 in the upgrades on the Mithril Shield page. If you were to include Steel Skin, this 85 AC shield would provide ~17.85% physical damage reduction and ~13.23% magical damage reduction.
Actually, I checked, and a +30 SoC is closer to 18mil NW, or equivalent to a +61 MS.

A +20 SoC, meanwhile, costs about 1.3 mil for 10% damage reduction, equivalent to about 60 AC, or a MS +38, which has a NW of just over 900k.

Meanwhile, if you want 5% damage reduction, it will cost you under 100k with either shield (there aren't exact values in the wiki for MS, because no one upgrades one of those to +8 and leaves it). I would estimate that a MS +8 probably has about half the NW of a SoC +10.

From what I see, it looks like the less money you want to spend, the better off you are with a MS, but if you want to go big or go home on physical damage reduction (say you wanna go up against SHD and his bow), the SoC actually becomes cheaper the higher up you go, because the MS NW curve steepens more quickly relative to reduction given.

Basically, it looks pretty balanced to me. Without SS (which can be dispelled, so there may be cases when you are without SS no matter what you do), the SoC reduces physical damage better than a MS with similar NW. And I think that returning the same amount of physical damage blocked can reasonably be considered to balance out the potential increase of SS and the lack of protection from magical damage pretty well.

So the SoC is best if you go big and you're planning to return physical damage and you're not using SS. If you want to reduce, MS with SS is the best way to go, because it costs about the same and reduces magic as well as having a lower power weight.

Hmmm... on second thought, maybe slighten the curve on the SoC a tiny bit or reduce its power weight so that it is better than the MS at lower levels, for those who aren't quite going to put 20mil into a shield either way.

SuperHD March 26 2009 3:36 PM EDT

Hot hit Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1128713]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot hit Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1018279]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot hit Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1498194]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Failsafe's shot ricocheted near Hot
Failure regenerated 189,081 HP

Super's shot ricocheted near Failure
Hot shot Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1221724]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot shot Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1325466]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot shot Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1449059]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Failsafe overshot Hot
Failure's shield flashes! [3,138,565]
Failure's explosive shot hit Super [3016989], Dog [38199], Hot [37456]
Failure's explosive shot hit Super [120166], Hot [34979]
Failure cries "Whoops! I did it again...!"
Failure regenerated 189,081 HP
R.I.P. Super, Dog

Hot hit Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1231007]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot shot Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1027324]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot shot Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1180702]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Failsafe overshot Hot
Failure's shot flew past Hot
Failure regenerated 189,081 HP

Hot hit Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [935718]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot skewered Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1043881]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Hot struck deep into Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1045480]
Failsafe absorbs damage [607563]
Failsafe's shot ricocheted near Hot
Failure's shield flashes! [2,632,469]
Failure's explosive shot hit Hot [2449737]
Failure regenerated 189,081 HP

Hot skewered Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1360751]
Hot struck deep into Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1019744]
Hot skewered Failure with DMON BOW OF POWER [1375449]
Hot cries "chow-bye!"
Failsafe's shot ricocheted near Hot
Failure's shield flashes! [1,544,143]
Failure's explosive shot hit Hot [1479703]
Failure regenerated 189,081 HP

I just wanted to show how great SoC is again archer , no show-off here. And often i get a 6 mil flashback too ! enough to kill almost any minion in here !

in any way Shield of capacity combine with a big Guardian Angel rule.
imagine if Failure had a big GA(out of RoS for DM protection). i'd be knock-out a long time ago.

I have read twice all(since my name pop-up so often) what you guys said and you are all so clever, so brightly intelligent ! especially Ranger and Warlord Tamerlane. Its cool to read you all, i'll miss you.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 26 2009 4:14 PM EDT

if the soc were not bugged with jiggy's i would be a happy man...well happier anyways.

iBananco [Blue Army] March 26 2009 4:44 PM EDT

DBs are infinitely better with matching DX.

three4thsforsaken March 26 2009 4:47 PM EDT

Who says dodging potential triple or double hits with DBs isn't nice?

QBRanger March 26 2009 4:50 PM EDT

Apparently a lot of people who want total immunity to any NW weapon just by using xp. And not a lot of it too boot.
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