More than 1 Familiar? (in General)


TheCakeIsTheTruth March 28 2009 5:32 PM EDT

Wouldn't it make sense to be able to use more than one familiar? Instead one growing at max capacity, you could have 2 but they'd both have to combine to be under the max tattoo level. They'd both split the levels instead on one getting all those levels. Make sense or no?

Admiralkiller March 28 2009 5:37 PM EDT

I agree

blackshadowshade March 28 2009 5:40 PM EDT

I could see the point of this if there were two TATTOOS, one of which is a familiar, and the other being a non-familiar.

e.g. JKF and ROS

Two familiars, though, means an effective 6 minions, which is rather overkill.

lel March 28 2009 5:41 PM EDT

Then they'd be weaker to AMF, only real benefit would be another kill slot.

Goodfish March 28 2009 5:42 PM EDT

Then I'd use 4 Halidon Familiars on 4 minions, two with GS and two with Haste.

Or worse: 4 RoBF's. Or two minion, ToE killslot and ToA archer. Or 4 minion FB farm with 4 FF's.

Anyways, no. One is enough (more than enough, I personally think).

Solare March 28 2009 5:54 PM EDT

I like the 1 tattoo, 1 familiar idea, as long as the original idea stays that the Max tattoo level is split in 2 to account for each one. I also agree with the idea that 2 familiars is a very bad idea, and so is 2 non-familiars.
I think it would give players more options, and make it less about who has the biggest tattoo.

Little Anthony March 28 2009 5:59 PM EDT

but this means biggest = mean nothing :D

Wasp [Demon Forging] March 28 2009 6:03 PM EDT

Isn't this similar to minions? We have 4 minions to use. I think 2 familiars would just be silly. We all know that 1 strong DD spell is much better then 2 that are half the size : )

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 28 2009 6:11 PM EDT

Wow. No offense, but what the hell? Familiar users aren't happy again? What will it take to really placate you guys? How about about you get 6 familiars and your familiars have familiars? Come on, try not to suggest things that would ruin the entire game.

three4thsforsaken March 28 2009 6:13 PM EDT

As much as I like versatility, adding the ability to have two familiars would pretty much rework the entire game. Which is a bit too much for any change CB2 should have.

TheCakeIsTheTruth March 28 2009 6:14 PM EDT

Sorry Mistgun, for my SUGGESTION.

Rawr March 29 2009 3:00 AM EDT

It is an interesting idea, but I don't see it happening.

If my team could use an RoS + RoBF, I'd be pretty freaking baller.

Godpanda March 29 2009 3:43 AM EDT

In a game where a huge portion of strategy has become intelligent use of tattoos, I see nothing wrong with increasing the ways in which they can be used.

Andy March 29 2009 7:54 AM EDT

Can my familiar have a mini familiar?

BluBBen March 29 2009 8:00 AM EDT

This would only be good if tattoos where bound to the char. Otherwise USD spenders would get to huge advantage.

Underage Drinking March 29 2009 12:52 PM EDT

4minions 4tattoos, 8 versus 8 is a carnageblender, the battle log would be brutal.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 29 2009 1:50 PM EDT

And what about the people who don't want to have an AoJ on every single minion?

BadFish March 29 2009 1:52 PM EDT

I agree with GW, however with how infrequently changes are being made to the game currently I don't think Jon has time to implement such a huge change, there would need to be a lot of balancing and whatnot.

AdminTal Destra [Forge Of Norn] March 29 2009 1:55 PM EDT

i agree with the one familiar one non idea
use a RoBF with a JKF would be awesome

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 29 2009 2:11 PM EDT

The point you guys are still missing is fairness. I personally do not want to use a familiar, and because of that, I only use my tattoo, which puts me at a huge disadvantage compared to people who use both a normal tattoo and a familiar? How is that in any way, shape, or form, fair?

Godpanda March 29 2009 3:41 PM EDT

Based around CHOICE.

You choose the path you take. If you wanted to drive to work in a go-cart, feel free. But don't write to your congressman complaining that all these people in their newfangled cars are going faster and hogging up the road.

Right now, people who don't like using tattoos could make an argument that it's not fair that tattoos are so powerful.


As to the concern that the admins simply don't have time, maybe not. But... And I mean this with all due respect, I really do.... that has to stop being a reason changes can't be made. Now, I'm not saying that the developers should throw aside their real life for a game. Of course not. But maybe other developers should be looked for.


Lack of change will kill a game. And kill it fast. We need more devs. And devs that have some say in the gameplay. Jon made a hell of a game, we all know that. But I don't want to see it wither away because there aren't enough changes. I don't think anyone does.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 29 2009 6:24 PM EDT

No. Having tattoos is fair because there's so much versatility in choice. What you are agreeing to is to basically force everyone to use familiars or suffer a major disadvantage. I know it's hard for you to understand because you're a familiar use, but the idea of forcing everyone to either adopt an extra familiar or lose, is a little stupid and egocentric.

FailBoat[SG] March 29 2009 6:48 PM EDT

Let me present a slight issue to you:

Team A:
Minion 1 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 2 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 3 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 4 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon

Team B:
Minion 1 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 2 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 3 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 4 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar

Team C:
PL Wall - All the gear needed
Archer - All the gear needed and a ToA
Enchanter - All the gear needed
Enchanter - All the gear needed


Who wins? And then, what does it take to rebalance a game where you have -massive- amounts of damage flying everywhere?

dup March 29 2009 6:56 PM EDT

id like to see a hal wearing a ToA

Godpanda March 29 2009 6:58 PM EDT

Obviously, Mistgun, you are too busy looking at personal issues instead of the issue.

You will be no more forced to use a familiar than someone is forced to use a tattoo. Your argument makes no sense. Indeed, it seems to me you're letting YOUR personal feelings on familiars cloud your view on this one.

As for what I do personally, someone needs to pay more attention.

Soul Eater March 29 2009 7:00 PM EDT

Your only saying that because you want to wear 4 familiars, which in my opinion would be so lame its not even funny because yet again the people use USD would have the upper hand once again since they could afford all the gear and all the tats.

Soul Eater March 29 2009 7:00 PM EDT

lol you want to wear 4 familiars, which in my opinion would be so lame its not even funny because yet again the people use USD would have the upper hand once again since they could afford all the gear and all the tats.

lel March 29 2009 7:02 PM EDT

People with USD would still be limited by max tat lvl and I don't see why people are thinking 4 familiars are good, 1 familiar would be much better.

TheCakeIsTheTruth March 29 2009 7:03 PM EDT

1 familiar and 1 tattoo/rune would make sense. USD wouldn't even be a factor because of the max lvl. This would be only be an option and add more strategies to the game.

Tyriel [123456789] March 29 2009 7:11 PM EDT

"Let me present a slight issue to you:

Team A:
Minion 1 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 2 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 3 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon
Minion 4 - Archer w/ all the fixings and an AoJ - Halidon

Team B:
Minion 1 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 2 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 3 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar
Minion 4 - Fireball Mage w/ all the fixing and an AoJ - Fire Familiar

Team C:
PL Wall - All the gear needed
Archer - All the gear needed and a ToA
Enchanter - All the gear needed
Enchanter - All the gear needed"

Team C, if it has EC/Evasion/DBs (against team A) or AMF (against team B). I'd love to see you try and get equips for 4 archers/Hals. While 4 FFs may be a bit more realistic cost-wise, you are completely screwed if you get to melee. I think I'd take team C over the other two any day of the week. Unless, of course, you handed me all of the equipment for team A, then I might consider that.

4 familiars isn't that overpowered, especially since one single familiar would be so much stronger.

The only slight issue I have with this idea is that MTL grows faster than tattoos. That means that, eventually, you'll have room under the MTL for another tattoo no matter what, so you might as well just throw on another tattoo, especially if you're in 6/20 and don't have to worry about CB%. Changing the growth of the MTL, so that it is equal to the growth of a tattoo, should fix this, though. Then people can choose how many tattoos they want without being forced to have more than one for efficiency's sake.

three4thsforsaken March 29 2009 7:40 PM EDT

People would start to use 1 million ToEs for almost no drawback. Goodbye tanks.

Tyriel [123456789] March 29 2009 7:46 PM EDT

"People would start to use 1 million ToEs for almost no drawback. Goodbye tanks."

Perhaps instead of capping the combined tattoo levels at MTL, each tattoo could be capped at 1/2 the MTL (for 2 tattoos)?

Then if you want to wear a ToE, you have to potentially sacrifice a lot of power from your other tattoo.

In addition, if you're wearing two tattoos including a ToE, the one that you want to level up (IE non-ToE) is only going to level up at half the rate. I know, it's not such a big deal short-term, but it could mean a significant difference over a long period of time or with a N*B.

Soul Eater March 29 2009 7:49 PM EDT

No I still think this is a bad idea.

Tyriel [123456789] March 29 2009 7:54 PM EDT

Benefits of having 2+ tattoos:
-Diversity strat-wise (many combinations of tattoos can create a wide variety of unique strategies)
-More effective use of logarithmically growing tattoos (RoBF magic defense, ToE physical defense)
-More kill-slots if you use 2+ familiars

Drawbacks of using 2+ tattoos:
-Each tattoo grows at only half the rate, which is bad if you have one tattoo you don't really want or need to grow (ToE, mostly)
-2+ Smaller tattoos are worth less than a single large tattoo.
-Dilution of power can be easy to counter with EOs and other counter-measures (familiars weaker to AMF/EC/Evasion/GA)
-Single minions kind of get the short end of the stick, assuming tattoos remain one per minion. Not that Jon likes them, anyways. :P

I don't know about the rest of you, but IMO that actually seems surprisingly balanced. Of course, it would need tweaks, but each side has their own benefits that can only increase diversity.

three4thsforsaken March 29 2009 8:13 PM EDT

I think it ultimately add a very fun dimension to the game, but such a change would be incredibly buggy at first, and also worth noticing is that tattoos currently aren't designed for such a environment. Balance would be an issue.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 29 2009 8:34 PM EDT

Yeah, ok, GW. Except now find me someone who's opposed to using tattoos in the game. Plenty of people would not want to use familiars and what, we have to suck it up so you can have an advantage?

Oh, I guess I'm blind. I guess a "steel familiar" isn't a familiar. Stupid me.

Haloki March 29 2009 8:37 PM EDT

bad idea

Godpanda March 29 2009 9:31 PM EDT

Mistgun, you need to look further. Think. Stop looking to prove yourself right and look to find the truth.

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] March 29 2009 9:36 PM EDT

My thoughts exactly. Think. How about supporting a change that would benefit the whole game instead of a few select players?

Godpanda March 29 2009 11:39 PM EDT

You know what, I don't care enough to try and explain.
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