what is the current ncb bonus level? (in General)

thanks to anyone that has started one recently and takes the time to respond. ; )

NCB (xp only) 387%

almost fifty percent growth to the bonus in the nearly six months since i started mine. wow!

That means I could just forge for a year and come back with a bonus of 450% plus. I'm glad we have this system that doesn't reward the lazy.

triple t said it, forgers are lazy! ; p

Yeah, lol. But really, I'm glad noone could take a year off, come back drop 500$ play through an NCB and get in the top 5. That would just be an awful system.

in regards to laziness, i see no difference between the current system and a rolling bonus system.

where i do see a difference is that one encourages disposability of teams and the other would allow team loyalty.

That's it Im quitting Clanfighting for a year, and saving up my munay NCB here I Come!!!........Not :P Never had any kind of bonus other than a Clan Bonus and content with just that :)

You're content because you don't know what it's like getting 3,000 xp per fight :P. (More like 3,500 but we'll round it off at 3k because of all the 2600xp fights)

a small solution to the disposability of teams issue is to make the MPR to forging efficiency MUCH steeper. and make forging much more effective at higher MPR's. This would mean that high MPR chars can make lots of money forging (making the char more valuable) as well as discouraging lower level characters from forging.

How bout this...every 1M mpr doubles the forgining efficiency of a char 1M mpr lower.

So people would NCB up forge characters more often...


...rolling bonus is SO much better

"But if I leave and come back it's easier to start with 85% of top mpr than 0% no? Assuming the rolling bonus allows you to go from 0% to top mpr in 6 months still."

= Rewards laziness

Why would the rolling bonus allow you to go from 0% to top MPR in 6 months? That's not what it does at all.

You are arguing to replace the NCB, no?

Six months is too short?

And if it wouldn't allow you to also go from 0% to 100% just the same as 85% to 100%, then it definitely rewards laziness.

how does it reward laziness any more than the current system?

the current system also rewards cheating in addition to laziness for those willing to take the risk.

I just said if I leave and come back, I can make my way back up just as well as if I never left; therefore, it's easier for one to quit and return. If I quit for a month, Jon considers that laziness; he's trying to promote that you be active.

I will use myself as an example. I haven't played since November right - I'm lazy. If I want to come back and be competetive, I could unretire and hope for the best or NCB for 6 whole months.

Under the rolling bonus system, I could unretire and be competitive in far less than six months.


I assume you are talking about multis? I imagine the NUB would have to be completely reimagined to still give a similar reward. In which case you'd still have the propensity for cheating.

they both promote laziness to the same degree in my opinion and the n*b does nothing to make people stick around any more than rolling bonus would.

your argument was that you could quit for months and come back and catch up. with the current ncb you can do the same now. there is no reward for staying in the game and being dedicated to fighting other than having a subpar character that will constantly be farm bait for other n*b's.

you also have the option of, with some risk, starting over on a new user name and cheating. with the rolling bonus there would be no reason to do this as even a january '05 character could catch up.

in effect, we can promote laziness and dishonesty with the current system or just laziness with the rolling bonus system.

Either way the ability to keep up is what is being called "lazy" and both systems do that. I don't see why KEEPING your character and not throwing it away to achieve the same end is lazier than starting over and potentially using the transfer back/forth bit to gain more growth than the bonus is intended to give.

You _have_ read up on the rolling bonus theory we've got going, right Cube? It would not be possible for an inactive character who got passed up to pass back the active character unless the active guy went inactive as well, as both are receiving a bonus, but the guy further behind receives a slightly larger one.

Look at it like a scale:

100%---90%---80%---70%---60%---50%---40%---30%---20%---10%---0

If you're all the way back at, say, 50% bonus and someone is at 20%

100%---90%---80%---70%---60%---50%---40%---30%---20%---10%---0
------------------------------------(you)-------------(them)----------

we'll say it takes you 2 months to catch where they're at

2 months later
100%---90%---80%---70%---60%---50%---40%---30%---20%---10%---0
------------------------------------------------------(you)------(them)

In that time they haven't just sat there, they gained growth. You didn't catch them, you simply narrowed the gap between you and them.

They still had their 20% bonus while you had your decreasing 50%, so they were catching up too. See, everyone gets closer to the top, but nobody passes anyone else who is actively fighting just as hard because they've got some bonus too.

This also means the system could potentially put you VERY close to the top, but would not put you OVER the top, and it would take you a long time to do so.

So we've got System A)

can leave and come back, 6 months of competitiveness
very cheatable system, can transfer and save BA to exceed max growth potential
very high bonus amount
disposable characters favorable

and System B)

can leave and come back, long period of competitiveness
less cheatable system, basically challenge bonus improved, transfering and saving BA would have no effect as bonuses decreases with MPR increase
no more skyrocketing bonus percentages
characters no longer throwaway, worthwhile to stick with a team


WHY is System B LAZIER?

As I said, it doesn't promote continuous play.

It's a different way of looking at it as laziness than you are talking about, but it's the one Jon chose.

nor does the current one! if you sit out with the rolling bonus you come back to a larger bonus.

in the current system, if i do an ncb now the bonus is just under 400%. if i sit out a year and run an ncb then i will come back to a larger bonus as well, probably near 500%.

so what is the difference then?

6 months of continuous play is needed to reach high levels...

And if six months sounds too short to you, you probably need to rethink your perspective.

I've been on CB 1yr 6mo ish, so that's three chances.

so you think six months is fine, too short or too long? i am not sure from your response.

the rolling bonus can be set to whatever timeframe though as well, just as the current n*b can be adjusted, has been adjusted and likely will continue to be adjusted.

so if that is your only argument than it is null and void.

I think six months is fine, but it seems Jon prefers continuous play to popping in and out..

the current system fails at that though, have you been following our population for the past 12 months?

people come back, make an ncb run, see that they still aren't in the top ten and come back next year.

Problem is in real life people cannot burn BA for 6 months straight.

They go on vacation, take a mental health break etc...

The NCB punishes you for missing any time.

A rolling bonus lets you take a bit of time off and regroup.

Far better IMO.

Considering that as the difference, now that I think about it that's kind of why I'm not playing now.

Okay, well you've converted me.. but I guess I'm not the person who needed to be convinced.

here's my experience:

I need some incentive to keep playing on here....atm, i play, but only just, its more of continuous clicks of the mouse than any real involvement. That's more of spinal reflexes than any cerebral involvement in the game.

A new NCB would be too costly in these times of recession. So, a rolling bonus type of solution, any similar solution, that gives me more involvement with my current char, would increase my involvement in this game several levels above the current situation. Perhaps, free untrain and free tattoo re-ink at time of commencement of the bonus would improve the scenario further.

Just my $ 0.02, perhaps the recession deflation just increased its value a mite ;)

::throws in 2 cents::

I really don't see how the rolling bonus is a bad idea. I have a N*B, and I fear I'll just have a disposable character when it ends. The notion of going from huge gains to low gains is not pleasant, and the rolling bonus would curb that problem.

It may be a poor analogy, but compare it to the BA reductions. If your BA rate drops from 10/20 to 6/20, it doesn't "promote laziness." Most won't retire their characters to get the 10/20 rate again (unless there's a valid reason). If anything, it's a sign of accomplishment -- it shows that you're getting closer to the top.

6/20 rate is better. Your rewards are scaled up to compensate. So you get the same amount without being online as much.

"I need some incentive to keep playing on here....atm"

Agreed. I wait (and wait it seems...) for something new to be added/changed, to give me some interest to spend BA.

I stay for the folk though. ;)


"A new NCB would be too costly in these times of recession."

It's too costly period. The 'restart tax' is silly.

"So, a rolling bonus type of solution, any similar solution, that gives me more involvement with my current char, would increase my involvement in this game several levels above the current situation."

Same.

"As I said, it doesn't promote continuous play."

Don't know if this hasn't been pointed out, or if you haven't just paid attention. With a rolling bonus you would never _NEVER_ overtake someone who played more and smarter than you. That's how it works, you simply get closer, but never, once again I say never, over take them, and this is assuming you play the same amount time. Those who don't play continuously will fall behind those who do. The current system rewards USD, not in weapons, but in buying BA for your NCB. Also, the currents system rewards throwing away characters. I have a 3.1M character that will be barely worth its transfer fees. I hope you get the picture now.