# Solving ES and Katana (in General)

## AdminTitan[The Sky Forge]April 20 2009 7:42 PM EDT

Ok, I did some test. I fought against the same person for all of these battles. He had only one minion with armor, with only 90AC, so if anything, this only helps the ES. Here are the results.

x1 Elven Stiletto

13 / 13 / 8,874
12 / 12 / 9,101
13 / 13 / 9,572
12 / 12 / 9,409
13 / 13 / 9,010
13 / 13 / 9,038
12 / 12 / 9,345
13 / 13 / 9,394

avg = 9,218

x1 Katana

12 / 12 / 10,587
12 / 12 / 11,827
12 / 12 / 10,352
12 / 12 / 10,298
12 / 12 / 10,713
12 / 12 / 11,731
12 / 12 / 11,546
12 / 12 / 10,748

avg = 10,975

119% more damage

x4 Elven Stiletto

13 / 13 / 18,204
12 / 12 / 18,132
12 / 12 / 18,475
12 / 12 / 17,462
12 / 12 / 17,627
12 / 12 / 17,823
12 / 12 / 18,115
12 / 12 / 18,480

avg = 18,040

x4 Katana

12 / 12 / 25,514
12 / 12 / 26,882
13 / 13 / 24,923
12 / 12 / 25,273
12 / 12 / 24,725
13 / 13 / 24,553
12 / 12 / 26,558
12 / 12 / 24,583

avg = 25,376

141% more damage

So, as you can see, in the first test the ES would only be better against someone with over 200AC and a ToE that grants 38% endurance, the second test however would take a ToE that grants 82% endurance. What low level character has a ToE with that much endurance, heck noone has a ToE that has 82% endurance. So, now I politely ask Jon to either buff the Elven Stiletto, or remove it. It's not another option, it's a tulwar.

## QBRangerApril 20 2009 8:00 PM EDT

Are you completely 100% sure, without any doubt that the ES does less damage vs ALL possible AC/TOE combination someone can see at a low MPR.

We have to be 100% certain. As it may possibly in some random alignment of the stars, be better than the katana at very low MPR levels.

I think a lot more testing and retesting, and further analysis with supercomputers such as Deep Thought has to occur before we can jump to any conclusions.

And yes, this is utter sarcasm, for something that was very obvious to the casual observer long ago.

## BadFishApril 20 2009 8:01 PM EDT

Might as well have compared ES damage to BoNE damage... takes about 100 more ba for a NUB to afford BoNE over a katana

## AdminTitan[The Sky Forge]April 20 2009 8:04 PM EDT

Katanas cost about the same as stilettos, BoNEs are 200k. I think you get my point. Ranger: yes, but I figured people would be more accepting with some numbers.

## QBRangerApril 20 2009 8:06 PM EDT

Also, one may have to wait a week to see a BoNE in auctions.

Katanas and ESs appear every day.

But one should be nothing more than a stopgap type weapon till one can get a Big Six one. Which should be less than a week.

## AdminTitan[The Sky Forge]April 20 2009 8:07 PM EDT

Yup, technically speaking, you don't need a melee weapon until you can get a big six anyway.

## idiotzApril 20 2009 8:15 PM EDT

Katana

IDIOT dislimbed HAND [10502]
IDIOT dislimbed HAND [15352]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's familiar's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. HAND
IDIOT dislimbed QBOOB's familiar [15585]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB's familiar [15142]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's familiar's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB's familiar
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB [12583]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB [11186]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB
IDIOT dislimbed QBOOB [15653]
IDIOT eviscerated QBOOB [12421]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB [14148]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB
IDIOT eviscerated HAND [12927]
IDIOT decapitated HAND [9817]
IDIOT decapitated HAND [15631]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. HAND

Elven Stilleto
IDIOT eviscerated HAND [11360]
IDIOT decapitated HAND [11234]
IDIOT dislimbed HAND [11100]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's familiar's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. HAND
IDIOT eviscerated QBOOB's familiar [9071]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB's familiar [11267]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's familiar's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB's familiar
IDIOT eviscerated QBOOB [6957]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB [7107]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB
IDIOT dislimbed QBOOB [11396]
IDIOT eviscerated QBOOB [11261]
IDIOT decapitated QBOOB [7858]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
QBOOB's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. QBOOB
IDIOT dislimbed HAND [9716]
IDIOT dislimbed HAND [7891]
IDIOT cries "/me kills you!"
HAND's Magic Missile hit IDIOT for no damage
R.I.P. HAND

## ScYApril 20 2009 8:18 PM EDT

Hmmm wonder who would win: Deep Blue vs the Elven Katana of Garry Kasparov ;O

## QBOddBirdApril 20 2009 8:19 PM EDT

weaker even against 200 AC it looks like.

I'm with Titan and Ranger now for certain then: either buff the Elven Stiletto or remove it...I'm not sure why another newbie trap was introduced.

## QBRangerApril 20 2009 8:25 PM EDT

OB,

Would you like to change the wiki now to reflect this and say the ES is effectively useless now?

Or someone else? I have done enough editing for now.

## QBOddBirdApril 20 2009 8:49 PM EDT

already did, here's crossing my fingers and hoping for a change

## AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]April 21 2009 5:22 AM EDT

"It's not another option, it's a tulwar."

:D

Come on, CB meme time. Heh, this has been running longer than Sute's DM. /envy

:P

## CubeApril 21 2009 9:10 AM EDT

I think it was introduced before you could rebuy old supporter items for \$11. The idea being that you'd never become unbeatable by getting a high AC and buying up all the VBs in existence. Of course it seems pretty useless now.

## QBRangerApril 21 2009 9:30 AM EDT

Cube,

Using a BoNE or even an ELS would likely do more damage than the ES, given their much higher base damage.

Even when it was introduced, Jon noted that it was not a higher end weapon.

I still have no idea why he introduced it in the first place, given the extreme cash new players make very early on.

As many have stated, there really is no use for anything but the very best items except for T characters or very very early on.

However, getting to 100k MPR is 1 week maximum for a NUB/NCB. And if they were smart, they would be a mage until that time to save cash for appropriate tank items.

## BadFishApril 21 2009 9:39 AM EDT

or they would just stay a mage forever -.- easier, cheaper, better

ES avg = 9,218
Katana avg = 10,975

119% more damage

This is 19% more damage as opposed to 119%.