DM (in General)


Unappreciated Misnomer April 24 2009 8:58 PM EDT

put dm in its places please this spell is very OP seeing as you can neutralize almost anyone. i mean its great but its too versatile. i recommend narrowing 1) what it effects 2) potency.

just my 2 cents

Unappreciated Misnomer April 24 2009 8:58 PM EDT

its one or two not both im meant to recommend.

QBsutekh137 April 24 2009 9:03 PM EDT

I'm fine with that -- as long as one can train AMF and EC along with it in that case (at full potential).

BadFish April 24 2009 9:29 PM EDT

My beef with DM is that it only has one real counter, besides not using any EDs, and that is the RoS.
1. The RoS isn't even a complete counter to DM
2. Does the RoS DM resistance protect each enchantment individually from DM, or is the resistance applied to your team as a whole? In other words, since DM stacks against multiple ED spells, does the resistance get battered down by each seperate casting of DM, or by the total effect? perhaps having the RoS resistance applied to each ED on a team individually so it has to be broken through multiple times, and reduce it to 20% of the RoS level perhaps? IDK.

TheHatchetman April 24 2009 10:31 PM EDT

I still find it funny that the RoS is the only tattoo (aside from the nw RoS) that can't really be effectively used by a minion that lives in solitude... :P

QBOddBird April 24 2009 10:41 PM EDT

I still don't see it as overpowered; if you want to protect against DM, use the RoS.

It's just one of those "you can't have your cake and eat it too" situations, really, and everyone's unhappy that their cake is gone.

three4thsforsaken April 24 2009 10:48 PM EDT

Seriously, there is no real evidence pointing that DM is a game breaker. The fact that this debate even exists makes me very sad.

Pwned April 24 2009 11:01 PM EDT

what happens when you fight a single archer with a Hal? 999999 mil into DM and.....? thats right what makes DM O/P ????

miteke [Superheros] April 24 2009 11:02 PM EDT

It's been analyzed to death and the verdict it is not overpowered. For the points you spend you only make out if the victim has two EDs, no RoS, and both EDs are large enough that no DM points are left. That pretty much means it is only useful against AS/GA with no RoS teams (and a few fringe teams that use large GS or Haste) which I'm betting you run since you are complaining. Against teams with a lot of EDs it rocks, but against most teams it is a waste of points unless your tactic makes spending 1300 points to neutralize 1000 points of AS useful.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 24 2009 11:18 PM EDT

DM is next to useless against roughly 70% of teams in Carnage Blender because they either
a) don't use a ED spell
b) are based around ED spells and have a RoS with high level ED spells
c) beat the DM user anyway

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 24 2009 11:19 PM EDT

DM is next to useless against roughly 70% of teams in Carnage Blender because they either
a) don't use a ED spell
b) are based around ED spells and have a RoS with high level ED spells
c) beat the DM user anyway

It just ain't really that useful and no way can it be classed as OP

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 24 2009 11:19 PM EDT

oops double post.
Sorry bout that

Unappreciated Misnomer April 24 2009 11:58 PM EDT

actually miteke im a solid DM user, its a must i mean who wants to serious cast GS or Haste which are awesome spells but are missing the omph they need.

QBsutekh137 April 25 2009 12:02 AM EDT

And folks keep forgetting the self-inflicted reason against DM -- ya can't use any OEs if you are depending on a heavy DM investment.

That was the point of my post above. If you do away with DM's intrinsic weakness (which I am certain Jonathan understood when he coded it), then I am fine with reducing DM's "offensive" power.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 25 2009 12:06 AM EDT

i have just always been of the opinion that dm should be used up as it dispels.

QBOddBird April 25 2009 12:09 AM EDT

"put dm in its places please this spell is very OP seeing as you can neutralize almost anyone. i mean its great but its too versatile. i recommend narrowing 1) what it effects 2) potency."

I guarantee I could beat you with your own team using the very same strategy and EC in place of DM. ;)

Unappreciated Misnomer April 25 2009 12:25 AM EDT

then feel free OB and humor me by making yourself an ncb run and come get me!

Colonel Custard April 25 2009 12:39 AM EDT

"I still find it funny that the RoS is the only tattoo (aside from the nw RoS) that can't really be effectively used by a minion that lives in solitude... :P"
What about SFBM training no HP?

Base AS, RoS near MTL, and 100% of EXP into FB.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 25 2009 1:14 AM EDT

That sounds fun for a SFBM :)

QBOddBird April 25 2009 2:41 AM EDT

Demon, that was a simple strategy comment. DM doesn't work on you, and therefore the exact same strategy with the DM experience placed into EC (something that _does_ work on you) would defeat you.

In that case - and in many other cases where the amount of ED experience dispelled is not as great as what is wasted on the DM spell - it is more efficient to train something else.




(besides, I hate the N*B, and refuse to run one.)

Ancient Anubis April 25 2009 2:59 AM EDT

can i just say the reason gs and haste ain't used isn't just due to dm but to the fact that a single tank is hugely expensive nw wise to run and running a team of tanks using gs and haste is almost impossible the shear cost is what usually deters people

QBRanger April 25 2009 9:42 AM EDT

Also, ENC has a say in a 4 tank strat.

PoisoN April 25 2009 10:18 AM EDT

Whats up with you guys? DM is the way it is since years but suddenly it is called overpowered? Why?

QBRanger April 25 2009 10:25 AM EDT

If you look through past posts, the DM is overpowered thread has popped up from time to time.

The ability to stack as well as 100% nerfage makes it very powerful.

Overpowered? That is a question of debate.

Cube April 25 2009 10:58 AM EDT

It's focus makes it very easy to get a high challenge bonus with it. A lot of things do that, just not to the extent that DM does.

PoisoN April 25 2009 12:48 PM EDT

Well DM helps against EDs, therefore I cant protect myself with AF and EC. It is mostly useful vs. 2+ teams with AS or GA (as from the stats the other EDs are not that popular) but is pretty much useless when those meat shields with TSA simply do not wanna die. Or that AF of my opponent that let me sometimes hit myself harder than the opposing team.

So I'd say it is not overpowered, AS is just too popular with almost 19% of all xp :)

Adminedyit April 25 2009 1:04 PM EDT

DM is powerful yes but not over powered IMO. Base decay can tear a DM team up. They also can't use any other EO's. It has its strengths and weaknesses.

QBJohnnywas April 25 2009 1:19 PM EDT

Somebody else said it, but I'll say it again: just don't train EDs. Boom! Waste of a DM...

Windwalker April 25 2009 1:19 PM EDT

Let me get this straight. A guy trains AS because he wants the benefit of getting HP across the board. He foregoes any natural HP which can't be dispelled,runs into someone who has a dispel larger than the AS and thinks it's OP?? lol penny's worth

QBOddBird April 25 2009 1:20 PM EDT

like PoisoN says, I don't think it's so much that DM is overpowered as it is that AS is really popular ;)

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 25 2009 3:53 PM EDT

I don't think it is really overpowered. It is one of the most interesting and important facets of the semi auto-balancing nature of CB. I think many low minion teams rely on it to be viable, particularly since the introduction of PL.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 25 2009 11:09 PM EDT

"Overpowered? That is a question of debate."

Nope, not over powered. Debate over.

{WW]Nayab [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 25 2009 11:15 PM EDT

Well done Titan

three4thsforsaken April 25 2009 11:29 PM EDT

thank you.

QBRanger April 25 2009 11:33 PM EDT

I lean a bit to being overpowered.

It effects 6 different spells. Each of the spells it effects has only 1 purpose. Either more strength, or more dex, or more hp, or return damage etc..

DM is just very shotgun in nature. Works against all six.

The other spells in is classification, the Enchanted Offense spells, has two purposes.

AMF, works against mages to both lower damage taken and deal backlash.
EC, works against tanks to both lower damage and lower amount of hits.

Contrast to DM which has 6 effects.

That is why I feel it is a bit too powerful for the xp spent.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] April 26 2009 12:05 AM EDT

The reason that I believe DM is coming up as overpowered now is that a lot more people are using AS and GA because of how much more attractive they have become from the recent changes. DM cuts through these extremely well and always has. When more and more people shift over to AS/GA more people will also shift over to DM because that is the best counter.

I have found that without an RoBF the only real counter to GA is DM. Its not like I can fight through it as I always receive the 60% backlash and VA doesn't work most of the time because most people who use GA have DM as well.

Cube April 26 2009 12:07 AM EDT

I see no harm in DM not working on anything but AS/GA, but maybe that's just me.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 26 2009 12:08 AM EDT

DM = gets owned by RoS, useless against a large portion of opponents, takes a large investment to be worthwhile, and finally keeps you from using any other EOs. Once again, debate over.
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