Ideal ROS build? (in General)


QBRanger April 26 2009 10:42 AM EDT

Seeing as how the ROS is a very nice tattoo now, I gave some thought to an ideal ROS build.

Of course it is 4 minions.

Minion 1:

DM/GA, DM up to the protective value of the ROS, the rest into GA.

Minion 2:

AMF 100k, rest into AS

Minion 3:

All AS with the RoS

Minion 4:

Minitank with about 500k dex, BL, high strength, and only a melee weapon, preferably a leech one. Does not need a very high NW weapon as this minion is to kill you opponents non damage dealers.

Why this build?

100k AMF to protect vs decay. Anything more takes away from AS and gets neutered by NSC anyway.

Max DM of course.

The minitank is designed to do mop up duty after your AS/GA takes out the opponents damage dealers.

In this build, the main "attack" is AS/GA designed to take out all opponents damage dealers.

Thoughts?

[P]Mitt April 26 2009 10:46 AM EDT

Are you afraid of exp dilution with 4 minions and 2 Ablative Shields?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 26 2009 10:56 AM EDT

Versus tanks all they need to do is unequip weapons and you stale...

Lochnivar April 26 2009 11:03 AM EDT

aside from slight differences in DM and AMF levels this is more or less my exact build...

... seems to work for me

Though I will say you want to equip as big of a weapon as possible (mine's only 66mil NW and I want bigger). Between the TSA, TG, HoE, and AoM you get a decent enc value to work with so use as much as you can.

oh, and a big evasion/RoBF minion with a few shield Es will smoke you :-)

lostling April 26 2009 11:07 AM EDT

=x oh you mean my team? kinda =x

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 26 2009 11:09 AM EDT

Do any of your targets try removing weapons when you are attacking?

QBRanger April 26 2009 11:15 AM EDT

It is a pain to remove weapons when your off and reequip them again when your on.

And you likely will be attacked by people who never would beat you if your unarmed.

The biggest problem is the RBF characters.

Nothing short of a massive weapon will likely beat them. But you cannot beat everyone.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 26 2009 11:17 AM EDT

I would just remove the weapons when I see a GA build attacking, not when I was off, gives them the pain of inspecting before every fight and likely gets you off their list.

QBRanger April 26 2009 11:20 AM EDT

It is quite a pain to see who and when they are attacking. But certainly one can do that.

I personally think it is more of a pain then a benefit you get from stalemating.

And unless they have high DB's, the bth of your weapon will likely hit enough over 50 rounds win the battle.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 26 2009 11:23 AM EDT

It is true the benefit is restricted to cps and possibly a slight increase in challenge bonus, probably not something most are likely to be bothered with.

Lochnivar April 26 2009 11:24 AM EDT

oh yeah, fear RoBF, and Sut's DM....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] April 26 2009 11:38 AM EDT

Horribly weak against any RoBF build

QBRanger April 26 2009 11:42 AM EDT

Certainly Henk,

So how about a suggestion about how to make the build I proposed better.

To help vs the RBF.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] April 26 2009 11:44 AM EDT

Magic missle in there somewhere. ^.^

QBRanger April 26 2009 11:46 AM EDT

What I personally dislike about DD spells on the ROS is the AMF backlash.

A 4 minion build is best to maximize the AS/GA damage axis.

And using a DD spell lowers the potential AS/GA damage by lowering hp due to AMF backlash. And taking some GA yourself, esp vs other ROS teams.

If I would use any DD spell, it would be SG due to its high damage output.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] April 26 2009 11:50 AM EDT

Your better off with CoC.

iBananco [Blue Army] April 26 2009 11:54 AM EDT

SG is strictly superior to CoC on this build. Less GA backlash and no damage wasted on the damage dealer.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 26 2009 12:02 PM EDT

Decay has always been one of my favorite components of 4 minion RoS builds... it helps with stalemates (assuming you can stuff a high enough plus weapon on the "tank" and the RoBFers

QBRanger April 26 2009 12:29 PM EDT

Decay esp with NSC is very nice.

However ga can really hurt your enchanters casting. Losing kill slots and hp in the process.

Ryuzaki April 26 2009 12:35 PM EDT

however vs opposing ga wouldn't you want your other minions to take damage for your damage dealer so it can survive longer?

Cube April 26 2009 12:37 PM EDT

I think he means AMF. GA at least you'll have the upper hand for a small investment.

DoS [Battle Royale] April 26 2009 12:41 PM EDT

AMF won't hurt the decay enchanters but GA will give back damage.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 26 2009 1:10 PM EDT

If you add some decay, I think this would be a very fun strat. I'd in fact like to try it, some time. ;)

Rawr April 26 2009 1:43 PM EDT

Seems a lot like what I'm trying to do, except I use a SG mage to mop up instead of the tank... odd, I suggested the tank to you but you said that enc would eat the tank up? :)

QBRanger April 26 2009 2:41 PM EDT

Yes, I may have been incorrect about ENC.

As to decay. You want more hp on your minions to do more GA damage.

AMF will certainly make your minion casting it take AMF backlash, which can be a lot if you have high AS. Also, if your opponent has GA, you will take damage from GA as well.

Both of these factors will lower your mages hp, lowering the GA damage you can do.

Mikel April 26 2009 2:57 PM EDT

DM could be optional or like you said minimal.

AS is way more important, you can have 2 Pure AS casters, one with a base AS + Tattoo boost for some serious HP.

GA on the 4th minion, and DM/AMF on that one as well cause GA won't need to keep growing once you get it up to a nice level.

For the RoBF player, maybe a HIGH AC minion out in front? Might not stop them completely, but it would slow them down.

Lochnivar April 26 2009 2:59 PM EDT

the SG could work well... with BoE, NSC, CoI, SB, etc

as for decay, maybe keeping one minion with decay for bigger targets, but Ranger is right, the first AMF backlash will rob you of a significant amount of GA.... and GA is really better in bulk.

QBRanger April 26 2009 3:01 PM EDT

I do think as high a DM as you can do up to the protection on your ROS is quite helpful.

AMF to about 100k I believe is optimal to help vs decay enchanters. You really do not want them to do a lot of damage since the HP you get are needed to really kill off their main damage dealer via GA.

The RBF is the main problem. Perhaps a high AC tank using a MgS in front may be best. Even learning BL to help do a lot of damage.

QBRanger April 26 2009 3:11 PM EDT

I really do not know much about the level of SG one can obtain on a 4 minion character.

And how much AMF backlash you get vs a decent level of AMF even with NSC on.

If anyone can post, that may help decide if SG or a minitank is better.

Lochnivar April 26 2009 3:20 PM EDT

at about 2.35 mil MPR (my size) with 4 equal minions you're looking at right about 4mil un-boosted SG (with no hp or skills trained)

not sure how effective that would be having not used it myself

Demigod April 26 2009 3:22 PM EDT

I must be missing something pretty basic. Is the fear of GA why you're not giving your minitank a ranged weapon? Wouldn't the damage output still be worth it?

QBRanger April 26 2009 3:24 PM EDT

Yes,

Because you do not want him to die from GA before he can start hitting with his leech weapon.

iBananco [Blue Army] April 26 2009 3:32 PM EDT

Why not drop an axbow in there?

QBRanger April 26 2009 3:36 PM EDT

I can see an exbow or axbow for sure, as they do not do tons of damage, but can effect battles in other ways.

Demigod April 26 2009 3:36 PM EDT

At least I'm on the right track, but the other question is if the damage output is worth it.

Leech weapons give back a relatively small amount per hit and only attacks the front minion. The alternative is to forgo the leech bonus, using a SoD to attack the enemy's DD caster immediately. Giving the your minitank a Helm of Clearsight would add one additional round to attack before the opponents' DD caster can move.

Yes, you'd likely sacrifice your minitank before going to melee, but you'd be stronger against DD teams (and there are more of those than tank teams, it seems).

How wrong am I?

DoS [Battle Royale] April 26 2009 3:45 PM EDT

Demi, taking out the main damage dealer isn't the problem. If use a SoD, they would be very susceptible to GA retaliation.. The reason for the leech weapon is to pad the GA retaliation damage.

Lochnivar April 26 2009 3:59 PM EDT

For an example of leaching padding the GA loss....

My fight against
Melee Combat Konoha's Finest: (just my side)

Reflection takes damage from his own Decay (931892)!
Reflection's Decay hit Yam [309535]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Reflection (185721)
Iron Will fractured Yam with Violent Death [1253133]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [250626]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (550966)
Iron Will bruised Yam with Violent Death [627283]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [125456]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (288554)

Reflection takes damage from his own Decay (566027)!
Reflection's Decay hit Yam [221937]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Reflection (133162)
Iron Will fractured Yam with Violent Death [687595]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [137519]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (310256)
Iron Will beat Yam with Violent Death [610768]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [122153]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (272063)
Iron Will pounded Yam with Violent Death [676397]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [135279]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (304268)

Reflection takes damage from his own Decay (169676)!
Reflection's Decay hit Yam [134069]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Reflection (80441)
Iron Will crunched Yam with Violent Death [777605]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [155521]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (348642)
Iron Will crunched Yam with Violent Death [604368]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [120873]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (274472)
Iron Will pounded Yam with Violent Death [620442]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [124088]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (279964)

Iron Will fractured Yam with Violent Death [596972]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [119394]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (278135)
Iron Will pulverized Yam with Violent Death [622207]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [123656]
Yam's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (285395)
Iron Will pulverized Yam with Violent Death [787826]
Iron Will cries "CB Member since Oct 24, 2003!"

Iron Will bruised Ha with Violent Death [538038]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [107607]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (243567)
Iron Will tapped Ha with Violent Death [719215]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [143843]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (330872)
Iron Will bruised Ha with Violent Death [526774]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [105354]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (236927)

Iron Will tapped Ha with Violent Death [541061]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [108212]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (246571)
Iron Will tapped Ha with Violent Death [676237]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [135247]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (298237)


Iron Will pounded Ha with Violent Death [730169]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [146033]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (338161)
Iron Will pounded Ha with Violent Death [802741]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [160548]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (356396)


Iron Will fractured Ha with Violent Death [734713]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [146942]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (332667)
Iron Will fractured Ha with Violent Death [825160]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [165032]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (370036)
Iron Will fractured Ha with Violent Death [802046]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [160409]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (364390)


Iron Will crunched Ha with Violent Death [723925]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [144785]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (320360)
Iron Will pulverized Ha with Violent Death [810953]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [23661]
Ha Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (51844)
Iron Will cries "CB Member since Oct 24, 2003!"


Iron Will bruised Temari with Violent Death [709321]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [141864]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (327413)
Iron Will tapped Temari with Violent Death [540067]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [108013]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (240546)


Iron Will tapped Temari with Violent Death [730089]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [146017]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (320930)
Iron Will pounded Temari with Violent Death [802764]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [160552]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (358726)
Iron Will pounded Temari with Violent Death [643156]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [128631]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (284537)


Iron Will pounded Temari with Violent Death [595255]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [119051]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (275601)
Iron Will beat Temari with Violent Death [545910]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [109182]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (252748)

Iron Will regenerated 39,887 HP

Iron Will beat Temari with Violent Death [603471]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [120694]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (274110)
Iron Will crunched Temari with Violent Death [561696]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [112339]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (258360)
Iron Will fractured Temari with Violent Death [559522]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [111904]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (246771)

Iron Will regenerated 39,887 HP

Iron Will crunched Temari with Violent Death [769550]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [153910]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (357516)
Iron Will crushed Temari with Violent Death [691422]
Iron Will draws strength from his weapon! [135516]
Temari's Guardian Angel smote Iron Will (300784)
Iron Will cries "CB Member since Oct 24, 2003!"

Iron Will regenerated 39,887 HP
R.I.P. Temari

Demigod April 26 2009 4:02 PM EDT

Ah, now I see. The point is to let the enemies kill themselves. The purpose for the minitank is to stay alive to pick off the non-damage dealers who won't commit suicide.

Thanks for the help.

Lochnivar April 26 2009 4:06 PM EDT

incidentally, against that opponent my 'mini-tank' does an average of over 25mil damage per battle...

oh, and sorry about ye ole wall'o'text

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] April 26 2009 4:46 PM EDT

I am wondering, but why go for a regular tank? You have the protection of RoS so you could train GS instead and turn all of them into tanks. Plus all the benefits from AoF work as well on it.

QBRanger April 26 2009 4:47 PM EDT

Your primary damage dealing ability resides in AS/GA.

Making 4 tanks gets very expensive.

Of course you would use the AoF on all minions but the tank, where you may want to use an AoM.

Rawr April 26 2009 4:58 PM EDT

Here is a common example of what my SG hits for (3.8 mil levels).

Hyuuga Hinata takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (107778)!
Hyuuga Hinata touches Catalyst [1268773]
Catalyst's Guardian Angel smote Hyuuga Hinata (740736)


This is against a maximized GA and (.16) AMF (Versus Nemesis).

As you can see, the SG mage is much more susceptible to GA than the minitank (which has more AC and lifesteal). I personally see no downsides for me to switch to a minitank, except for unlearn costs and item costs...

QBRanger April 26 2009 5:00 PM EDT

Yea

That is why I felt a minitank with a MH would be best.

Solely for mop up type duty.

Or perhaps vs RBF users which are going to be a pain anyway.

And very high DM characters as well.

Rawr April 26 2009 5:01 PM EDT

Oh, but the downside is....
Exbow! haha
lets not get into that...

Cube April 26 2009 7:52 PM EDT

Axbow should help you dodge hopefully.
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