New minion vs upping my ELB (in Debates)

QBRanger May 5 2009 9:12 AM EDT

Currently a new minion for me costs 70M CB.

It will be a while.

I will get about 1.7M levels I believe which I will use towards DM.

So, up my elb another 7k to 20k or hire a 2nd minion?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 5 2009 9:15 AM EDT

Depends on what you are going to do with the new minion. I think upping the x on your bow will turn out to be a waste of CBD.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 9:31 AM EDT

unless you just like spending money, i don't see any reason why someone past around 2.7m mpr would ever hire a minion. it is so darned easy to just make an ncb run and ya get tat growth from that!

Demigod May 5 2009 9:32 AM EDT

If it changes anyone's thought process, Ranger's ELB is currently:

The Lunatic [6x14000] (+220) worth $217,468,411

And some DM is already trained on the existing character, though I don't know how much.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 5 2009 9:33 AM EDT

My side of this debate is this is a thread for the General froum. ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 5 2009 9:37 AM EDT

Hehehe, second post here to clarify my post above.

We should probably clarify in OPs here whether we're making a debate or a discussion, as it seems they both have different forums rules to follow. ;)

QBRanger May 5 2009 9:42 AM EDT


1) Hiring a new minion training all DM to 1.8M or so levels. Using that to hold the tattoo with the appropriate equipment. Letting my tank use a TSA with its str and regen bonus. Using an EC for the dex/skill bonus. Having another kill slot as an added bonus.

2) Upping my ELB doing more damage while learning more DM on my tank. Currently it is about 150k levels.

That is the debate. 1 or 2.

QBRanger May 5 2009 9:45 AM EDT

A NCB run to get where I currently am would take more CB than buying a new minion.

I can start with 2 minion, use a ROE till my MTL reaches my HF.

However, I would need to buy BA, a lot of it, to get to 3.4M MPR.

Not counting all the sleepless nights at the 10 and 9 BA regeneration zones. A bit less on the 8 but still one misses BA if one wants to sleep.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 5 2009 9:50 AM EDT

What side of the debate do you fall on Ranger?

Myself, I side with upping your ELbow. I'm in support of concentration. Unless you train 50% of your total XP currently into DM, getting a new minion will dilute the XP your Tank gets.

And a TSA can't make up for that.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 9:50 AM EDT

i do not believe that. i got mine to 3.2 with only buying ba after the halfway mark and then only during bonus xp times. if you can do it without missing much natural ba to be precise. if you or wasp spent anything other than rewards from fighting, it really wasn't money that well spent seeing as how you are only 200k mpr or so higher than me.

i think with the hal, it would be even better than with the jiggy as the hal doesn't have the bug issues i have had since starting my run that kept my challenge bonus lower.

i think, if i did as well and put all rewards back into bonus xp time for the whole duration, i could've passed the 3.5m mpr mark.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 10:16 AM EDT

also if you save up for an ncb run and put all rewards back into ba, you should hit the 8 ba regen zone in 3 weeks or so.

QBRanger May 5 2009 10:56 AM EDT

Yes, possibly.

But right now I have a 3.4M MPR character. Why gamble and possibly not make it this high?

If I take a vacation, that is 1 week of the NCB gone. Multiply that by more vacations.

I would rather just consider the 2 choices I gave. Which of the 2 would you do?

I am leaning towards a 2nd minion. For DM to help vs GA. And for the ability to use the TSA/EC to boost my minion that way.

Right now I am trying to boost my DM, which may take months to get it 3M where it will start to effect ROS characters.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 12:06 PM EDT

how many people in the game can win always against you?

i see 4 in your battle log, who else?

three4thsforsaken May 5 2009 12:08 PM EDT

I don't see much of a future for a character like the one you have now in terms of top spot. I would recommend investing more into your ELB and waiting for a sellout with higher MPR in the next 6 months.

QBRanger May 5 2009 12:17 PM EDT

Dixie Cousins ( F ) ( + ) 54 7 12 0 73.97 8.1 11:51 AM EDT
Vectoidz ( F ) ( + ) 33 0 0 0 100.00 3.3 11:10 AM EDT
The Hens of Daze ( F ) ( + ) 45 0 0 0 100.00 13.2 11:02 AM EDT
Conundrum ( F ) ( + ) 44 0 0 0 100.00 8.0 10:31 AM EDT
Konoha's Finest ( F ) ( + ) 59 0 0 0 100.00 4.3 10:15 AM EDT
The Titania ( F ) ( + ) some wins/losses

These are the ones that beat me.

There are a couple others like Locknivar's that I cannot beat but does not beat me.

And I do see a future with this character. Especially at higher MPR levels.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 12:21 PM EDT

more damage will help against all, how many will dm help against?

QBRanger May 5 2009 12:24 PM EDT

All but Hens.

All use AS, most use GA.

Vs Rawr I would need to get the DM up a bit more to overcome his RoS.

More damage from an elb will do nothing as GA takes me out rather quickly.

QBRanger May 5 2009 12:25 PM EDT

And I have no real idea for sure about Hens as he has a high SS that I would dispel, perhaps letting me beat him.

Demigod May 5 2009 12:48 PM EDT

It sounds to me like you've almost made up your mind to hire a new minion. Doing so would take care of most of your current bullies, but make sure it's not myopic. In a couple of months, you'll have new minions attacking you.

As long as dispelable traits are key to many of the opponents above you, it seems like you'll be safer with the DM/one-hit meatshield in front and health regenerating armor on Wasp.

Going the other route gives you slightly better growth for Wasp, no regenerating armor, and doubling the X on the ELB (which means roughly 50% more damage, right?).

I'm still learning the strategy game, but I'd lean toward hiring a new minion.

Cube May 5 2009 1:59 PM EDT

It looks like there's only two people you lose to now with more than 1 ED, and it looks like you have a few wins versus Bast already. Since Rawr has an RoS it will also be a massive investment to beat his EDs.

Since DM versus any less than 2 EDs is pretty much a waste, I say stick with the Elbow and the single minion.

QBRanger May 5 2009 2:36 PM EDT

I beat Bast a couple times due to the MoD I am using, which I do not own.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 5 2009 2:39 PM EDT

Money into Elbow, all into the x, my PoV.

QBOddBird May 5 2009 6:44 PM EDT

I'd say hire the minion; 2 minion teams are vastly better because one can hold the tattoo and the other can use all its equipment slots.

"I don't see much of a future for a character like the one you have now in terms of top spot."

I disagree. Calculate how much MPR Ranger would have on that character after hiring 3 minions...he'd be well on up there.

On the other hand, the longer you hold off hiring your minions, the more they'll add to your team; nonetheless, I'd say gaining the tattoo holder slot would be worthwhile. *shrug*

Kefeck [FARM ME] May 5 2009 6:47 PM EDT

"I don't see much of a future for a character like the one you have now in terms of top spot."

With hiring ranger should surely surpass Vectoidz in mpr, and last i checked vectoidz was up at the top or very near it.

three4thsforsaken May 5 2009 9:44 PM EDT

I meant I don't see a future without hiring. However, if you hire right now cuts your ability to grow your weapon. If you're willing to do both or buy tons more CBD you might end up in a good place.

But still, you'll need to hire like two minions to break 4 million MPR.

Practically, with 70 million CBD each, I don't feel it'll give you a character worth 140 million.

That's why I recommend the pump weapon and buy character.

QBRanger May 5 2009 10:24 PM EDT

I know, however there are no characters above mine that would be superior if I bought this minion. Only 1 real 2 minion character setup as I like it now. And it will not be for sale for a while.

I was offered a 4 minion one cheap, higher MPR for essentially not much. I declined since the setup was wrong.

I guess the real question is when should I buy a minion?

Now at 3.4M MPR or wait till 4M MPR? Will that extra 600k MPR into a single minion at this level really matter much and I could grow a new one now, get its DM to a reasonable level quicker.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 10:25 PM EDT

does your not losing to many also equate to good challenge bonuses for ya?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 5 2009 10:26 PM EDT

and would the extra minion now improve the challenge bonuses?

QBJohnnywas May 6 2009 6:55 AM EDT

Is the 1.7m levels going to make that much difference? Would buying more at the cheaper option not be more helpful, ie kill slots?

QBRanger May 6 2009 8:59 AM EDT

There is no challenge bonus.

And yes, I have thought seriously about the lesser minion.

QBRanger May 6 2009 9:03 AM EDT

The cheaper one will give me 500k DM vs 1.8 for the larger one.

QBRanger May 6 2009 9:40 AM EDT

There is a 42M difference in price between the 2.

QBOddBird May 6 2009 11:05 AM EDT

I'd say hold off on both your spending and hiring until 4M MPR.

You're talking about spending a *LOT* of CBD, so you want to get the maximum effect from that decision - and since you're not getting a challenge bonus anyway, losing to a couple opponents only affects you in the CPs department, not really anywhere else.

There's no need to make a decision based on losses that do not truly affect you.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 6 2009 12:07 PM EDT

Looks like he already hired. :)
Did you get the expensive one or the cheap one?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 6 2009 12:11 PM EDT

Apparently the smaller one, if the DM cast is anything to go by. ;)

QBRanger May 6 2009 12:11 PM EDT

I went on the cheap.

JW had a great point. 43M more for 1.2M more levels of DM was just not worth it.

It would have made a more drastic change to my fightlist, however the freaking exbow is the main problem.

Time to get and try a SF.

QBRanger May 6 2009 12:12 PM EDT

Dispel Magic: 459,676 / 470,257
vs about 1.76M DM

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 6 2009 12:13 PM EDT

Well, you can beat Bast now, so at least you got one more target. I think the SF will be interesting. :)

QBRanger May 6 2009 12:14 PM EDT

With my current setup, it seems I win sometimes vs Freed, most vs Bast, and a couple of defensive wins vs DD (vectoidz).

I have to solve the exbow problem to get novice off my back.

And thanks heavens Mikel and I are both in BR.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] May 6 2009 12:16 PM EDT

Yeah; if you left BR you'd definitely have some problems with Mikel. :) As for Nov... I suppose you could a). Switch to the SF, like you had in mind, or b). Pray for an ExBow nerf. ;)

QBRanger May 6 2009 12:18 PM EDT

Seems like B is a pipe dream. However, I have little problems with novice's exbow since it does take a lot of hits to drain my strength. I have not seen how many, but I do know it is not the 1 hit, all drain type.

A may be better, especially with the new minion I can now use NSC on it.

QBOddBird May 6 2009 1:23 PM EDT

I'm not sure I understand why you went with the cheaper's a huge decrease in your potential MPR. Granted, yeah, experience is expensive; but like you yourself said, it's very difficult to find a build like you want up high, and running a NCB is just as expensive is hiring minions.

QBRanger May 6 2009 1:58 PM EDT

yes, but for 1.4M levels of DM, i felt 42M is better spent on my elb or other equip

QBOddBird May 6 2009 2:17 PM EDT

I suppose so. I consider MPR invaluable can always upgrade your ELB, but you can only buy more MPR 3 times (2 more now.)

QBRanger May 6 2009 2:26 PM EDT

yes, i agree, but 42M is a lot for the return i was getting. Perhaps I should have went far into debt. It was a tough decision.

Rawr May 7 2009 12:39 AM EDT

Ranger just knocked 3 off his "getting farmed by" list...
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