discussion: dodging hits! (in Debates)


Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 16 2009 10:56 AM EDT

with the old evasion, we had one skill we could train and nullify physical damage by reducing their hits to zero. we all thought those days were gone!

with the new setup, jon & ns broke it down to two areas of hitting. base to hit inherent to weapons and plus to hit based on weapon upgrades. it does seem like it still going to be possible to reduce hits to zero, but it will take more xp trained into more skills, abilities and enchantments.

in effect, dex advantage gained from training dexterity alongside of ethereal chains can wipe out most, if not all, of the bth hits. evasion trained high enough can nullify weapon pth.

in the current system, it is possible for someone to devote themselves to still hitting, they will just need a higher dex than their opponent to still have dex advantage which may require them training dex as well as ec also.

some of us were worried about recent changes and the fact that people could just up strength and increas their damage without worrying too much about dex. the above mechanic ensures that they will do so only at the expense of some opponents.

i do think the new system is much fairer than the old system, what do you think?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 16 2009 11:00 AM EDT

for the purpose of this discussion, i will also assume that the current stacking issues will be fixed so that we get xp stacking over effect stacking.

QBRanger May 16 2009 11:04 AM EDT

Yes,

I agree the current system is far superior to the old way of training 1 skill buffing it with the AoJ and being invulnerable.

The JKFs problem still has to be solved.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 16 2009 11:09 AM EDT

I agree for sure dudemus. With the old system it was so tilted to one side that I actually took my enchanter, which had about 1/8 of my entire exp, and trained pure evasion. With this minion I could fight up against tanks wayyy larger then me. Don't forget, this was with 1/8 of my exp too. The current system works well too. 100 evasion is fairly cheap, and that could reduce damage anywhere from 25%-33%, sometimes more if you have the same DX as your opponent. Combine this with some other forms of damage reduction, 100AC (pretty easy to get), and you're seeing about 38%-44%. Pretty good all in all if you ask me.

BadFish May 16 2009 12:53 PM EDT

I agree that the new system is much more fair.
I also think it is still entirely possible to have an evasion rivaling that of the old evasion... however it requires that you train a good amount of dex and basically devote much more exp into nullifying tank damage, and even then there's no guarantee that you wont get hit at least a few times. But evasion is still quite powerful, it just may seem slightly weak because it pales in comparison to the old evasion.

Colonel Custard May 16 2009 1:02 PM EDT

I think the current Evasion is quite fair. I have an opponent on my fightlist that I almost never hit with melee physical damage, because she has 3x my DX and DBs big enough to pretty much neutralized my PTH. That makes sense; she's invested more into her DX and her DBs than I have into my weapon.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 16 2009 3:24 PM EDT

current evasion is rather sucky since the dex requirement makes 0 sense at all

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 16 2009 3:53 PM EDT

"current evasion is rather sucky since the dex requirement makes 0 sense at all"

This statement made me lol.

QBRanger May 16 2009 5:02 PM EDT

HAHA

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 16 2009 7:18 PM EDT

"dex advantage gained from training dexterity alongside of ethereal chains can wipe out most, if not all, of the bth hits."

EC is very ineffecient for the purpose of this discussion. You only get 50% of the trained XP into Dex gap widening.

If you train 50% of your XP into DEX and 50% into EC, and your Opponent trains the equivalent into DEX, they will still have 25% more DEX than you (before item modifications).

DB (and to a lesr extent Evasion) can combat PTH, but you should only really expect to equal your opponents Dexterity, letting them hit once per round at thier BTH (or -20% if an AoI is used).

Cube May 16 2009 8:15 PM EDT

EC is more efficient the more you invest in it. For EC alone to be worth it compared to dex you have to get them down to 0 dex.

three4thsforsaken May 16 2009 11:25 PM EDT

There is a very thin balance to maximize EC and dex effectiveness to maximize your dex advantage. It's so delicate that I feel it has little potential to be abused or overpowered.

three4thsforsaken May 16 2009 11:27 PM EDT

"Yes,

I agree the current system is far superior to the old way of training 1 skill buffing it with the AoJ and being invulnerable.

The JKFs problem still has to be solved."

Well if that is true then JKF is a perfect counter for gigantor archers. What else is a JKF good for? Damage? HAHA. Hardly enough for a familiar tattoo.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 16 2009 11:30 PM EDT

it is easier to use ec with the jkf though, as the dex part is taken care of, especially when using junction and elven gears.

QBOddBird May 17 2009 2:27 PM EDT

I see EC as very inefficient altogether. Most tanks use STR/DX gears to some extent; the EC effect can only be increased by the Cornuthaum or RoS, meaning it can only increase by ~20% at most unless you use it on a multi-minion team and choose to RoS it.

I do like the current BTH/PTH system. It is much more balanced.

And yes, I think in order to use Evasion efficiently, one should be dextrous. It makes a lot more sense.
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