Dead clans, remove them or not? (in Debates)


AdminShade June 13 2009 2:19 PM EDT

This is the situation, we all know what clans are and know what benefits they have. What I find to be the problem is the following:

Currently we have 454 clans, of which only 33 (or 36) are really active. This means that we pretty much have more than 400 clans which do absolutely nothing.



The problem in this is the following: new player retention.

A new player joins CB, joins a clan only to find out it has possibly 10 characters in it which are not doing anything. Upon close observation, all the accounts are dead and hadn't been played since 2008 or worse, since 2005!

New player leaves, there goes retention and competitiveness.



Then there is the fear of clan rewards dropping. At this moment 36 clans are being given a bonus. When removing those dead clans, the bonus is not affected at all, instead it would only be beneficial because you gain more points from active clans than from dead clans.





See below some statistics from Clan standings: 1 week:

033 clans which have a clan score of 1000 or more
003 clans which have a clan score in between 100 and 1000

089 clans which have a clan score in between 10 and 100
129 clans which have a clan score in between 0 and 10
020 clans which have a score of exactly 0
113 clans which have a score of in between -10 and 0

051 clans which have a score of in between -100 and -10
016 clans which have a score lower than -100 but not yet enough to disband

BHT June 13 2009 2:25 PM EDT

Leave em alone, it's hard enough now as it is to get CP's in the low ranks. Let's not make it impossible.

I highly doubt a newbie will join some random clan with a low score. They will most likely choose the highest open membership clan, which is almost always an active clan.

AdminShade June 13 2009 2:27 PM EDT

It's hard enough now as it is to get CP's in the low ranks.

>> My change will not make it any harder, instead it would make you gain more points earlier also.


I highly doubt a newbie will join some random clan with a low score.

>> You doubt it but I have seen the proof with a lot of newbies already.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 13 2009 2:31 PM EDT

Shade, here's something for proof then. Every time we're top 10 and we have room in our clan, a newbie joins it. We have two fairly recent NUBs in it right now.

AdminShade June 13 2009 2:34 PM EDT

Artemis: that is true, but 10 new players join us every day. You have 2 of them, and I've seen others join dead clans also.

On the other hand, in case you would be right, then removing those dead clans would not have any negative effect either at all.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 13 2009 2:38 PM EDT

"On the other hand, in case you would be right, then removing those dead clans would not have any negative effect either at all."

Not necessarily, what WoC is saying is that it is difficult to find clan opponents down low. Which is true. A lot of these dead clans have members that have lower characters, that while they do not fight themselves, they do give lower NUBs an opponent to fight.

Papa Bear [G6] June 13 2009 2:42 PM EDT

"Not necessarily, what WoC is saying is that it is difficult to find clan opponents down low. Which is true. A lot of these dead clans have members that have lower characters, that while they do not fight themselves, they do give lower NUBs an opponent to fight."

and having these lower opponents allow for low newbies to rack up CPs for their clan

AdminShade June 13 2009 2:48 PM EDT

Artemis, the thing you miss in this is as following:

You say your clan has 2 NUBs joined you. Which means 2 possible targets.
Now if all NUBs or new characters do this exact same thing, then there is no problem in any of the lower regions.

The active characters even would be able to boost the scores and thus the rewards of lower regions

AdminShade June 13 2009 2:49 PM EDT

Oh and another thing: those dead clans usually have characters in them who are below 10k MPR, or even much lower.

I don't think any NUB will be inside of that region for very long anyway, now would they?

Soul Eater June 13 2009 3:00 PM EDT

I say give em the boot.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 13 2009 3:11 PM EDT

Alright, after some thought, I say give em the boot. The highest score I could find was 40k or so. Most NUBs aren't lower than that for very long.

Almaisky June 13 2009 3:43 PM EDT

Doesn't this make it really hard to get a clan bonus since now getting into the top 25% of all clans is much much much harder?

AdminShade June 13 2009 3:44 PM EDT

Almaisky: this does not make it any harder than it is now. People who fight very little now are given a bonus they should not even deserve...

Demigod June 13 2009 3:47 PM EDT

I've wanted someone to clean house for a while. Boot 'em, please.

GnuUzir June 13 2009 4:00 PM EDT

"020 clans which have a score of exactly 0
113 clans which have a score of in between -10 and 0

051 clans which have a score of in between -100 and -10
016 clans which have a score lower than -100 but not yet enough to disband"

I am in favor of dumping these...

If you cannot get positive CP for a week or most characters are inactive than that clan is not doing it right...

I know some people get pissed when their clan is auto-disbanded, but well... do better ;-P

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 13 2009 4:14 PM EDT

All of the dead clans should most definitely not be disbanded. If that happened there would be less than 10 clans getting a clan bonus at all. You would be looking at a bonus with 3% drop as you go down just 1 rank.

Almaisky June 13 2009 4:20 PM EDT

That's exactly what I was thinking, Nemerizt.

AdminShade June 13 2009 4:25 PM EDT

Nem: the thing you forget it only clans with a positive bonus are counted for that.


At this moment, 36 clans get a bonus. If that's 25%, then 100% is 144 clans. This means that the other 310 clans are certainly obsolete.

310 makes up almost all of the clans which have less than 10 points so I fail to see that logic.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 13 2009 4:29 PM EDT

Most of those clans with positive points are also dead clans. You would be eliminating them as well. And a lot of those ones that are in a small negative will be in a small positive next week.

It is quite hard as it is to keep a clan bonus. This would basically make it pointless for most clans.

AdminShade June 13 2009 5:11 PM EDT

Nem: my first initiative would be to remove the clans which have 0 or less points and see if that makes any influence at all.

The current clan bonuses are really only based on the 144 clans, not on the 454 clans.

BHT June 13 2009 6:12 PM EDT

Ok then remove those 300 or so clans what are at or below 0 CP's. SEe how that goes and then make the next step.

Almaisky June 13 2009 6:28 PM EDT

One day a clan may be positive, and one day a clan may be negative. It depends if one of the clan's members successfully defends against an attacker. Why don't we just leave them all there? I'd think that a new player would automatically want to join a clan with a high score, so these low scoring clans wouldn't do much harm.

AdminShade June 13 2009 6:58 PM EDT

It depends if one of the clan's members successfully defends against an attacker.

so these low scoring clans wouldn't do much harm.



True, the entire point is: those members are not attacked, so they don't defend. My entire point is to remove confusion for new members. If they join an active clan, more chance of them staying. It's worth a try when it does not do anything wrong.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 14 2009 1:30 AM EDT

isn't the bonus for all calculated based on the total number of clans?

Daz June 14 2009 1:35 AM EDT

If nothing else, I'd like dead clans to be removed from the dropdown list when joining a clan. That thing is horrible.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 14 2009 3:08 AM EDT

I think it would be fine to remove them from the dropdown list for joining. But don't remove them from the game. They make good targets for when you start a new ncb. Also if they are removed then the clan bonus is always going to look like it does about 2 hours after it starts again on monday morning. Meaning that the top clan gets 15% and the next one only gets 11% then 7% and 4% and 1% and the rest get none.

Since it will be so hard to get into the clan bonus levels itself you will see more people give up on trying to be in a clan and we will end up with less and less clans. Less and less clans mean that less are getting a bonus itself.

Lefty June 14 2009 3:10 AM EDT

Why don't they remove all these clans, and make Clan Bonus applied to only the top 15 or 30 Clans?

0.5 or 1% Bonus for every ranking.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] June 14 2009 3:12 AM EDT

"isn't the bonus for all calculated based on the total number of clans?"

It must be as we were just number 6 and only had 11.1% bonus, it's usually much higher than this. As you can see, there are only 2 pages of clans right now, and it doesn't matter that the majority of the one's that are gone right now were negative, it still hurt my reward. On that note I would like to change my opinion. Don't delete those clans.

AdminShade June 14 2009 7:18 AM EDT

As you can see, there are only 2 pages of clans right now

I'm afraid you weren't looking right, there are 7 pages of clans right now.

and Nem: I am only removing the clans nobody ever is attacking, so that doesn't harm the system.


#1 had 15%
#2 had 14.6%
#3 had 14.2%
#4 had 13.7%
#5 had 13.3% bonus.

I will try to keep track of all these bonuses for a while and see their progress during the weeks to come.

AdminNightStrike June 14 2009 11:50 AM EDT

Shade, I would sincerely hope that you aren't "removing" clans using admin functions.

Untouchable [The Knighthood] June 14 2009 12:22 PM EDT

Keep em, we need clan characters at low levels so us NCB in clans can own.

thank you

AdminShade June 14 2009 2:06 PM EDT

NS: I am not doing anything yet unless I'd get clearance from you or Jonathan of course.

I am just trying to get a motivation to either ask for that clearance or not to bother any more.

AdminShade June 14 2009 2:08 PM EDT

Also:

http://www.carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002nQu



There is no other way to remove such clans, in other words, those dead clans remain there for all eternity unless 'admin' action would be taken.

Vicious Cat June 21 2009 2:31 AM EDT

I've never understood why Clans get disbanded at some arbitrary figure.
To my mind, if a Clan attacks, that's enough to call it a clan (although in some cases a rubbish one :-) ). If no member of the clan has attacked in a week - disband it.
Would certainly have saved me $CB, and a lot of head-scratching for names :-D

Flamey June 21 2009 4:00 AM EDT

There does seem to be a lot less clans flying around. I remember 4 pages worth and now there's 2 :/

AdminShade June 21 2009 5:58 AM EDT

Flamey, it's Sunday. on Sunday all clans are removed from those pages :p

Flamey June 21 2009 5:58 AM EDT

I checked the other day, don't be silly!

AdminShade June 21 2009 6:21 AM EDT

Then less characters in clans must have been attacked. I have not changed anything.
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