The Current Tattoo System (in General)


Solare June 14 2009 12:26 PM EDT

Not a listed issue, but hear me out:
I find it very annoying that there are HUGE tattoos that, under the right circumstances, make the difference between victory and defeat.
Many may say the purpose of me writing this is due to the fact I have a very pathetic tattoo, and they would be partially right.
Personally I don't think the current bonus system is fair, which is why I've responded the way I have to the various threads out currently.

The tattoo system is equally unfair. I think the rolling bonus, if it were to be instated, should also be applied to tattoo growth.
I also believe the current MTL should be adjusted to slow tattoo growth a bit. My current MTL is stupidly high, above 12 million. The largest tattoos out there are only 10-11 million, and there are obviously higher MPR's than mine out there.

This is something I've noticed for some time, but I've neglected to say anything about it. But now that the Rolling Bonus topic has resurfaced, I've decided to put it out there to see what people think about it.

I'm happy to hear any negative or positive reflections on the current tattoo growth system, as well as my own opinion on the topic. Please give any suggestions, I'd like to expand on this topic if possible.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw June 14 2009 1:17 PM EDT

Why do you feel it's unfair? Also, how would you suggest changing it?

QBRanger June 14 2009 1:20 PM EDT

A lot of the problem was likely your use of the RoE during your NUB.

No pity here as that was your choice.

Rawr got to almost 3.8M MPR using a tattoo and look at where his is now.

It was your choice, now you have to live with it.

And I feel the rolling bonus should NOT apply to tattoos.

Solare June 14 2009 3:51 PM EDT

"A lot of the problem was likely your use of the RoE during your NUB.

No pity here as that was your choice.

Rawr got to almost 3.8M MPR using a tattoo and look at where his is now.

It was your choice, now you have to live with it.

And I feel the rolling bonus should NOT apply to tattoos."

The troll is hungry...

I didn't ask for pity Ranger. I think tattoos grow too fast and too big, and you can gain power just by having a huge tattoo.
As to suggestions on how to fix the problem, lower the MTL. My MTL is too high as it is. If I had Steeds my character would go from being mediocre to being of God status. That's what I think is unfair.

"It was your choice, now you have to live with it."
Just like you have to live with selling out before the right changes were made. All of these changes you're suggesting now are for your own benefit so that you may have a chance to reach that top spot again. You have gotten near the top again with effort, but you realize you'll never take it again, without a Rolling Bonus (I just so happen to agree with your idea). And you did it all by purchasing someone's character with USD. Then you complain about USD sellers??
I didn't say anything about your hypocrisy before because you never had the nerve to troll an idea of mine before. I must admit, I am a bit taken back by your sudden change of tone.
I didn't ask for criticism towards myself or my character, but towards my idea. And I expected a logical response. But instead, all I have received was an insult to an obvious ploy that nearly everyone took advantage of, including FTW.
The point of this thread was to see logical reasons as to why or why not it should be instated, not for people to troll and criticize me.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] June 14 2009 4:27 PM EDT

"Then you complain about USD sellers??"

He complains about the NuB sellouts that sell for USD, when their NUB bonus is meant to get them to the point of a vet that has been here from day one... in a matter of 6 months. Not to mention half as many nub are multi....

Fatil1ty June 14 2009 4:34 PM EDT

Alright heres my thoughts. I actually like the tat growth system. I know it's frustrating that a low tat is far eclipsed by a large characters MTL but that is the way it is and should be.

The current bonus system serves one fantastic purpose. If your goal isn't MPR but actually tat growth then running an NCB can prove quite useful. The only problem with that is that as it currently stands 6 months is arguably too long a time to take a break from a legitimate character in order to level a tatoo that won't even grow until 3-4 months in. Now that is the problem with the way tats grow and with the whole system.

Windwalker June 14 2009 4:37 PM EDT

Quite the contrary. I have had to insta up at least 3 times to keep my tat and MTL within range of each other. Having played for almost 2 years now I have to disagree with the assessment that tattoos grow too fast.

AdminTal Destra [G6] June 14 2009 4:39 PM EDT

Tats don't grow too fast, the MTL does. thats the argument here

QBRanger June 14 2009 4:41 PM EDT

I will get to others points later but a few now.

1). I asked for a rolling bonus years ago when I was the top MPR.

Where was the benefit for me then.

2). You stated you have a low tattoo. I was stating why. The MTL is fine where it be.

3). People have grown their tats via NCB. Use that to grow yours or Insta up. You had a chance to grow one and used the ROE instead.

To disagree is not trolling. You yourself stated you partially wrote this due to your low level tattoo. Now who is trying to get a chance made to benefit themself?

Seems you are!

Reignmaker [Battle Royale] June 14 2009 4:45 PM EDT

Yeah, tattoos are meant to be special, not just another item that you can throw CBD at to make bigger. If there's anything I like as-is, it's the current tattoo system.

Solare June 14 2009 5:38 PM EDT

"To disagree is not trolling. You yourself stated you partially wrote this due to your low level tattoo. Now who is trying to get a chance made to benefit themself?

Seems you are!"

So you seem to think I think you're trolling because you disagreed with me?
Well, let's see how much of your original message was you disagreeing with me and how much was you criticizing me directly:

"A lot of the problem was likely your use of the RoE during your NUB.

No pity here as that was your choice."

"It was your choice, now you have to live with it."

Hmm, from this alone it doesn't appear you are disagreeing with me.
You made one valid point that Rawr has a somewhat large tattoo for being a NUB and raising his tattoo all the way through.

Besides that you said nothing that was on topic. I'm sorry, but you definitely trolled my idea.

Solare June 14 2009 5:39 PM EDT

"1). I asked for a rolling bonus years ago when I was the top MPR.

Where was the benefit for me then.

2). You stated you have a low tattoo. I was stating why. The MTL is fine where it be.

3). People have grown their tats via NCB. Use that to grow yours or Insta up. You had a chance to grow one and used the ROE instead."

That's more like it. Don't criticize the person, criticize the idea.

Mikel June 14 2009 5:48 PM EDT

I have no problems with the MTL as it is:

I used all methods available to grow my tattoo and character. I NCB'ed 2-3 times and grew my tat, insta'ed when I could and then started this one with the idea that I would use the RoE for the first two months and then switch the last month out and grow my tattoo. But now, that is probably not as easy as it was back then, also during this NCB, the ba rates were changed on me in my final month and really slowed my growth down.

Lefty June 14 2009 6:10 PM EDT

I don't see a problem with how it is now.

A bigger tattoo certainly adds power to your character, but you can only go so high. MTL is supposed to be that high, but even that can't be reached after a certain point. Insta's and multiple character runs could be a viable way of leveling a tattoo to a point where you are content with it's level, or you could just play with one and watch it grow with your character.

I believe my tattoo is growing just fine and is growing at a rate that works well with my characters growth. I will be looking to insta-up when I can afford it later however, to get some better power, but that's just one way of gaining "extra" levels. Extra is key there. The tattoo growth rate seems like it works well with the character growth rate and shouldn't be changed.

Just because your MTL increases faster doesn't mean your tattoo grows too slow. :)

QBRanger June 14 2009 6:37 PM EDT

Solare,

I am not trolling your post.

To me it seems your very upset you do not have a high enough tattoo, and in fact even stated so in your first post.

"Many may say the purpose of me writing this is due to the fact I have a very pathetic tattoo, and they would be partially right. "

I was responding that that point as well as some others.

You had your chance to grow a tattoo with your NUB. Instead you went for MPR with a RoE.

And now you want us to feel sorry for you and think the whole tattoo system is wrong?

Out of all things in CB, I think the most fair is the tattoo system.

Yes, at higher levels, characters can become tattoocentric, however, there is nothing unfair about the system.

You can grow one with a N*B, or buy/insta one. Again, you decided to use the RoE and get a very high MPR.

I think lowering the MTL will keep the discordance you type about. And make it very hard for someone to grow a tattoo to the top ranks. I would prefer to see a rise to the MTL allowing more people to grow tattoos into the 8-9M level range. Giving more competition.

Now to a point that really gets me upset. You stated:

""1). I asked for a rolling bonus years ago when I was the top MPR.

Where was the benefit for me then. "

Who the hell cares about the benefit for you then? I was responding to your statement saying I only care for changes to benefit me. Implying that I only want the rolling bonus to help me catch up to FTWs MPR.

That is the most insane crock of crap I have seen typed in a long time. And I am calling you out on it. I wanted a rolling bonus long before you stepped foot into CB. And will continue to ask for one no matter where in the MPR ladder I am. Since it is the RIGHT thing for CB.

Zenai June 14 2009 6:50 PM EDT

To be honest Solare he has been asking for that Rolling Bonus since forever. As a matter of a fact, Ranger has been asking for a LOT of things and vehemently defending/Discussing each one. As far asking for things to benefit him in a way yes, but all of us would benefit from it too, so it is honestly a moot point to bring up.


On the Tattoo system that you are thinking about well there is pros and cons to it just like this one, I will put it like my dad used to say "Don't fix it if it is not broke." It is not currently,in my opinion, broken, it could be tweaked a bit just like everything else in CB right now.

QBRanger June 14 2009 6:54 PM EDT

If this post is about tattoos and how they make or break characters, then yes, they can.

However this is a huge difference between CB1 and 2. And was designed for this purpose.

You went the RoE route, instead of the tattoo route in your NUB. Something that cannot be done now. And now you see the downside.

There are plenty of options for you including:

1) Insta up
2) Run a NCB to grow your tattoo
3) Use a tattoo that helps if it is mid to lower range. These include the RBF, ToE and HF. DD tattoos are less likely to help due to AMF backlash, even with NSC, vs higher level AMFs.
4) Try to find a NUB/NCB to level your tattoo with their character.

Little Anthony is a prototypical person who was in your shoes. He used the RoE exclusively to get to the top in MPR and had no tattoo. And now has one about 7M in size.

Months of searching, instaing and begging got him one decent sized.

You can do the same.

But as to the current tattoo system, this is one thing that I believe CB has right. Even thought it can be a bit unfair at time, those with the high level tattoos mostly earned them. Steeds was NCBd up a couple times, then I instad to it when Jayuu sold it. Mikel's and Opvines were done the same. PoisoN grew his from a baby as did Bartjan.

Persevere and you shall overcome.

Solare June 14 2009 7:45 PM EDT

"To me it seems your very upset you do not have a high enough tattoo, and in fact even stated so in your first post."

No, that is a misinterpretation. I was responding to any possible counter argument as to why I posted it. I was hitting on the point that I am discontented about my pathetic tattoo, but that is not the key reason for the post.

"And now you want us to feel sorry for you and think the whole tattoo system is wrong?"

No, once again, I don't want your pity, but thanks anyways.

"Who the hell cares about the benefit for you then? I was responding to your statement saying I only care for changes to benefit me. Implying that I only want the rolling bonus to help me catch up to FTWs MPR."

Its true that's the reason you want it now, but I agree with the cause because, as you believe, it is for the best of CB. I never wanted anyone to care about what benefits me or what doesn't; I didn't state any of the sort. Stop putting words in my mouth.

"That is the most insane crock of crap I have seen typed in a long time. And I am calling you out on it. I wanted a rolling bonus long before you stepped foot into CB. And will continue to ask for one no matter where in the MPR ladder I am. Since it is the RIGHT thing for CB."

It's true. I've seen your posts. The reasons you're bringing it up once again are 1) Its for the good of CB AND 2) It will aid me to retake the top. Don't even try to deny its what your after.

"Months of searching, instaing and begging got him one decent sized.

You can do the same."

That's the primary reason I'm posting. I think the above pretty much sums it up. I don't think tattoos should be 'special.' I don't think by owning a HUGE tattoo, that you should be able to own anyone and everyone. Who are the top two contenders at the moment? Its not FTW, with the highest MPR, its Megadeus, once named Conundrum, and King of Pain. Who has the highest tattoos...? Yeah... that's what I thought... Anyways, as I said, that was the reason I posted this.
I appreciate all the comments so far.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 14 2009 7:52 PM EDT

What the hell is going to take to have people be nice again?

This a balance discussion, getting emotional during it will have people comparing you to to me... do you really want that?

_____________________
ON TOPIC -

I'm a huge opponent of lowering the max tat level, the first time it was done I nearly flipped out and left. While what I implied would happen did happen (no new big tats) it only happened for a short time.

I'm interested in what the actual point of this idea was. You talk about the system being unfair, and applying a bonus to tats (which we already have). Then you start talking about slowing the growth on tattoos. I assumed your intention was to stop the growth of the largest tattoos while allowing smaller ones to be grown faster.
Lowering the max tat level will do the exact opposite of that.

Please, please, please... don't be like me!

Solare June 14 2009 7:57 PM EDT

Thanks for pointing that out novice. I did not know that before. And, your right, that is what I'm after.

QBRanger June 14 2009 8:08 PM EDT

"It's true. I've seen your posts. The reasons you're bringing it up once again are 1) Its for the good of CB AND 2) It will aid me to retake the top. Don't even try to deny its what your after. "

Again,

I could not care about number 2 as it has not and never will factor into my wanting a Rolling Bonus.

Typing about putting words in people mouths. This is the most wrong post I have yet seen in all of CB.

For most that know me, I do not post to make myself more powerful.

Unlike you who is now crying that he does not have a high enough tattoo after gaming the NUB with the ROE getting more MPR. You could have used your NUB to grow a tattoo. It was the decision you made and now your crying that your decision was wrong. Boo freaking whoo.

Do as plenty of other have and start a NCB for tattoo growth. Your tattoo at 3-4M will grow quite fast, ask Dude as his is over 7M now.

But do not say the system is wrong since you did not choose correctly. We do not want to hear it.

To even try to argue that shows me your nothing but [self edit 25k sent to TP].

This is CB2 where tattoos are special. Live with it or get the hell out. The door is to your right, use it. I will be the first to slam it on your way out!!!!.

QBRanger June 14 2009 8:19 PM EDT

"I assumed your intention was to stop the growth of the largest tattoos while allowing smaller ones to be grown faster. "
"Thanks for pointing that out novice. I did not know that before. And, your right, that is what I'm after. "

The only way that would even be possible is if the rolling bonus, if it ever gets enacted, applies to tattoos.

Since lower characters will get a higher bonus and will be using a lower tattoo.

In such a case, perhaps a lowering of the MTL may be needed. That will have to be determined after such a bonus is enacted.

Solare June 14 2009 9:35 PM EDT

"Unlike you who is now crying that he does not have a high enough tattoo after gaming the NUB with the ROE getting more MPR. You could have used your NUB to grow a tattoo. It was the decision you made and now your crying that your decision was wrong. Boo freaking whoo."

What? Crying? That's not what this post is about. And, I'm not quite sure why you're being so emotional about this thread. If you're vehemently against it that's fine, but attacking me... C'mon now, be more mature about it.

"But do not say the system is wrong since you did not choose correctly. We do not want to hear it. "

Once again, that's not what this thread is about. And speak for yourself; some people do want to discuss possible tweaking of the game. I would have thought you of all people would be pro-talking-about-change.

"This is CB2 where tattoos are special. Live with it or get the hell out. The door is to your right, use it. I will be the first to slam it on your way out!!!!"

I think we've all learned that just because something is a certain way doesn't mean it will always be that way. Stop being hypocritical; you're asking for game tweaks as well.

I do appreciate your later post. It was very logical and to the point.

QBRanger June 14 2009 9:41 PM EDT

You made a choice about using a tattoo vs using the RoE during your NUB.

You full well knew the implications of your decision.

You now appear to be asking for something to rectify a poor decision.

That is what I was getting huffy about.

I have never asked for a change in CB to rectify a poor decision I made.

In fact, I have asked for changed that have hurt me rather badly.

The biggest I can think of now is the VB. I railed on it for over a year, saying it was the only melee weapon to use. I even made one 100M NW and showed how powerful it was. Then Jon fixed it and whamm I lost 50M NW in an insta down.

So I will ask you, were you serious in your statement that I want the rolling bonus in part to help me out? I really want to know the answer.

As to the tattoo part of things, I think how they are now is fine. No changes need to be made.

IF and it is a HUGE if, a rolling bonus gets enacted, then perhaps tattoo can catch up. But I would not count on it.


Solare June 14 2009 9:52 PM EDT

"You made a choice about using a tattoo vs using the RoE during your NUB.

You full well knew the implications of your decision.

You now appear to be asking for something to rectify a poor decision.

That is what I was getting huffy about."

Appearances can be deceiving. Truly, that's not what the thread is about. Just like when I asked for a FB tweak after I already retrained CoC. I thought FB needed reworking and I still do.

I tend to point out potential flaws as I see them.

As for using the RoE being a poor decision: I don't think it was at the time. If I buy another minion I will probably be the third largest character (due to the 15.5 million xp I have saved + my current MPR).
I don't mind insta'ing up if I have to, but I simply disagree with the system. I thought I'd point it out while everyone was on the topic of a rolling bonus. And just as you later stated (and I previous to that), the only way it could be tweaked is if the rolling bonus is applied to tattoos. And, as you stated, the MTL might have to be adjusted afterward to compensate.

I don't have ulterior motives, I promise.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002nTc">The Current Tattoo System</a>