Att Robf users :) (in General)


lostling June 16 2009 5:26 AM EDT

So... As some of you may know... I plan to run an robf strat... Been doing some calculations... And apparently robf does poorly against 4 minion "as" teams with familiars... Just wanted to see how true is that... Any input would be helpful :)

Rawr June 16 2009 5:31 AM EDT

well they own ros teams X:

iBananco [Blue Army] June 16 2009 5:44 AM EDT

Very true, unless you have an alternative source of magebusting power.

three4thsforsaken June 16 2009 6:06 AM EDT

Why would they? If it's because of kill slots then by that logic, physical damage, MM and SG are all "weak" against 4 minion teams. Which is an absurd statement.

Mikel June 16 2009 7:41 AM EDT

It's only real weakness is when it runs into High AC.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 16 2009 8:08 AM EDT

how high is high ac?

alaskanpsyko June 16 2009 8:13 AM EDT

ive got a lvl 62k+ RoBF so far some one put 500k as buying price, ill give it to the highest bidder on the 17th 5pm alaska gmt time(9pm server time?)

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2009 9:14 AM EDT

I was able to destroy (sorry) Rawr with a from 2.6M MPR, with my char Nautilus.
Not too difficult at all.

Solare June 16 2009 9:34 AM EDT

"It's only real weakness is when it runs into High AC."

Mikel knows all about Shipping up to Boston, and his mighty 2.5 million MPR, lol.

lostling June 16 2009 9:59 AM EDT

lol anyone else?

Mikel June 16 2009 10:16 AM EDT

Megadeus: AC. (Fighting Fire with Fire by pumping my own AC)
LA: Two powerful DD's. (pumping GA/AMF)
Dagobah & The Hens of Daze: able to get around my DB's. (Pumping Dex and with my DB's Evasion, it should swing favor back to me)

That's about it, I have not tested against Ranger.

lostling June 16 2009 2:13 PM EDT

so... no robf teams having problems with AS teams with familiars?

QBRanger June 16 2009 2:56 PM EDT

Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (850452) ヨ 335 AC

Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1288650) ヨ 221 AC

Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1747918) ヨ 99 AC

Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1931105) ヨ 0 AC

per OpVines.

QBRanger June 16 2009 3:02 PM EDT

I added this minitable to the wiki with some additional info.

like only the + on armor seems to lower the damage.

If you have other info, or need to correct mine, please do.

QBRanger June 16 2009 3:06 PM EDT

Lost,

I am sure plenty of RBF users have problems with Novice.

But all things being equal, the RBF is a great foil to AS/DD familiar characters, as well as RoS characters.

RBF users mostly have problems with archers and missile heavy tanks.

Due to the coexistance of AMF with the RBF and its magic reduction, MM and FB give RBF users a far less problem.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2009 3:06 PM EDT

All AC should effect RoBF damage, if you're seeing otherwise we need to do extensive testing to verify the bug.

QBRanger June 16 2009 3:09 PM EDT

Nov the reason I believe it is only the + is due to this table:

Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (850452) ヨ 335 AC
Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1288650) ヨ 221 AC
Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1747918) ヨ 99 AC
Superman burns from the flames surrounding Roxanne (1931105) ヨ 0 AC

99 AC only gives about 10% damage reduction and I suspect a lot of that AC is base AC.

Then going to 335 gives over 60% reduction in damage. But 335 is only 33.5% more than 99. So it cannot be all AC but had to be only the +. Or my assumption is wrong.

QBRanger June 16 2009 3:47 PM EDT

Sry, obviously 335 is 3.35x more than 99.

lostling June 16 2009 4:16 PM EDT

so few advice to work on =\

lostling June 16 2009 8:18 PM EDT

Novice has a tank and pl walls... Not your usual 4 as build with fam... Is there seriously so little people using robf that i cant get more first hand accounts?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 16 2009 8:24 PM EDT

I've run basic familiar setups before (AS AS GA J/AMF) and I don't think the RoBF has the damage capability needed to really chew through all those minions. However I've got some idea of what you're planning, and if anything can deal with the huge glut of HP they normally have it's the setup you're planning on running.

lostling June 16 2009 8:36 PM EDT

I am trying to decide if the threat from all as familiar teams is big enough for me to switch to dm over amf... Of course that would leave me weak vs sg + decay teams

three4thsforsaken June 16 2009 10:52 PM EDT

it's not as simple as that, lostling. You cannot say that a RoBF team is "weak" to AS unless you verify exactly how much percent xp is invested in AS and how many minions are involved.

AS simply adds HP and to say HP is "strong" against any form of damage is a pretty useless statement, especially if you're not really integrating how much HP is involved into your "calculations".

So to answer your question, AS is useful against RoBF in the way that HP is essential to surviving ANY form of damage. Unless you specify what kind of AS teams you are concerned about I can't give you any useful data.

But I can tell you that if you go ROBF, defense is your first priority, assuming you do not have any other damage sources. All the best RoBF teams realize this.

lostling June 16 2009 11:15 PM EDT

I have no idea what you are trying to say 3... Because all im asking is whether anyone who uses robf experience what i calculated

BHT June 16 2009 11:33 PM EDT

Well first of all... You need to be familiar with... how the robf works... and what it is good... and bad against... What sort of team are you using it on?... 4 minion AS teams with familiars... will always be powerful... unless you get a huge DM

three4thsforsaken June 16 2009 11:35 PM EDT

there are a lot of different kinds of AS familiar teams, dude. You're going to have to be more specific than "uses AS and familiar" if you want to get any useful data. Take GA for example, that's a huge efficiency factor that you are completely missing.

lostling June 16 2009 11:47 PM EDT

Lol... Its hard to put a definition on the strat... Well if i must... I suppose its 4 minions 3 training as 1 training ga/amf?

lostling June 17 2009 2:32 AM EDT

According to my calculations a fam team with a total of 4mill lvls 3mill in as 1mill in amf and ga will have a damage output with a ff baring selfdestruction deal a min of 5.8mill damage within 9 rounds or 13.69mill damage within 21 rounds while a robf outputs 400k x number of rounds lol... That is baring ac...

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] June 17 2009 3:56 AM EDT

You forget that with RoBF you can put all your focus into survival.

lostling June 17 2009 4:15 AM EDT

Even with full survival gear i dont see how you can make 4 million lvls worth of hp turn into 13 million lol

three4thsforsaken June 17 2009 4:33 AM EDT

"According to my calculations a fam team with a total of 4mill lvls 3mill in as 1mill in amf and ga will have a damage output with a ff baring selfdestruction deal a min of 5.8mill damage within 9 rounds or 13.69mill damage within 21 rounds while a robf outputs 400k x number of rounds lol... That is baring ac..."

I can't even understand this. You have to put caps on the abbreviations or it is impossible to read. And try using sentences.

I have many problems with the parts I think I understand though.

1.) You cannot assume a DD does maximum damage per round. Ever.

2.) It is not clear how big these tattoos are. In order to make a fair comparison, you need to create a team with a tattoo that actually fits in their MTL. How big is the RoBF? How big is the FF? Why are we comparing it to a FF anyway and ignoring backlash?

3.) You are ignoring so many elements, such as AC, AMF and the RoBF magic damage reduction. A proper RoBF team can get upwards of 60-70% damage reduction against magical damage.

4.) RoBF teams are not built like Familiar teams. There is really no reason they would have the same amount of HP and damage reduction. Somehow I'm under the impression you are assuming they have the same HP and damage reduction.

I could continue, but you get the point.

Phrede June 17 2009 4:35 AM EDT

I have recently switched to RoBF and it hasnt really made much difference (apart from Mikel) I am beating the same people I was beating with the ToE - time for a NCB again ;-)

lostling June 17 2009 5:00 AM EDT

Please understand... Its kinda difficult to type these things on a phone... I was assuming minimum damage in my calculations... Which is 50% of effect... I use fb as a gauge because it has one of the lowest total attack... Let me get back to the bunk and i will try to write something coherent
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