NSC: killing the monster I asked Jon for... (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 27 2009 4:05 AM EDT

...with my own two hands.

I think it's time to adjust the NSC to only work on the AMF return.
Even if you completely nullified the AMF return, damage on the opponent would remain the same as if AMF had cast with no gloves.

This would make investment in AMF worthwhile even against those of us with massive NSC. It also gives Mages what they deserve, choices.
AG and NSC aren't enough.

I believe a Fireball specific glove with an added bonus to damage (not level) and control (melee damage to own team reduced 5% per plus) would make an interesting new supporter item. Make FB Interesting again!

QBOddBird July 27 2009 4:08 AM EDT

Perhaps the effect of the NSC should be split into the two-part function of AMF.

Change the NSC to remove the AMF return, but damage is still affected by AMF.

Add Asbestos Gloves that are Fireball specific. :D

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 27 2009 4:10 AM EDT

I think I just said that...

QBOddBird July 27 2009 4:12 AM EDT

OK, let me specify...I mean to split the AMF effect between the two gloves.

QBOddBird July 27 2009 4:15 AM EDT

<TheHatchetman> OB, ya mean for the NSC to go the way of the TSA when the EH was created? :P
<Anonymous> right, split the function between two armors

So yes, exactly what you said, except the FB glove would get the part where AMF doesn't reduce damage as much and it gets the control where it reduces melee splash.

QBRanger July 27 2009 9:04 AM EDT

2 things.

Why is this in off-topic instead of general?

And the bigger question:

What made you change your opinion of these gloves?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] July 27 2009 9:06 AM EDT

thirdly: are you nuts?

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] July 27 2009 9:15 AM EDT

Fourthly: Someone suggested a mage nerf, watch the "Mages Are Too Weak" complaints flow!

QBRanger July 27 2009 9:35 AM EDT

Actually, this as one of the few areas novice and I disagreed on.

He liked the NSC just as they were, I thought they were way overpowered.

Now I see a post about how he wants them changed a bit.

I certainly believe what he is suggesting is better for the game than just killing them completely.

I really would like to know what changed his mind.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] July 27 2009 9:47 AM EDT

i too think the nsc's need to be toned down in some manner, however i would prioritize balance issues as such for now seeing as how the specialty crossbows got their needed attention:

* fix change uc damage to a non-linear model
* do something to help the fireball spell
* tweak nsc's in some manner

i place the first two higher than nsc's because just like with the specialty crossbows, they have been either out of whack for a long time or recent game changes and growth have caused them to become more out of whack.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 27 2009 10:24 AM EDT

fixing UC never really registers on the priority list...

I suggest something that boosts FB

My original suggestion for the NSC was that it effect return and only return. It was Jon who made it the way it is. I've mentioned on multiple times previously (and you've responded Ranger) that I'd be perfectly happy to see them revised. While I don't think they are over powered currently I do think that mages deserve to be force to chose between damage, level, and resistance to AMF. AMF needs a foil and it needs to be powerful.

Demigod July 27 2009 11:18 AM EDT

I'm biased, but I really want to see something done to reduce the FB backlash. I like the idea of the asbestos gear that reduces backlash with each +, but I'd rather see asbestos boots than asbestos gloves.

Asbestos boots would replace Spellboosters, which is a fair tradeoff. However, asbestos gloves would (at least in my case) replace Alatar's Gloves... and that may not be worth it, depending on the backlash reduction.

TheHatchetman July 27 2009 11:23 AM EDT

Demi, the Asbestos Gloves as suggested above would reduce/remove both friendly fire, and AMF's damage reduction ability ~_^

QBRanger July 27 2009 11:29 AM EDT

I do agree, that at this point in the game, FB is a very poor spell.

Removing the backlash to ones own minions will help in some degree but still likely not enough to make people consider it over MM in most cases.

But it would be a start.

The change to the NSC is something I completely agree with.

UC is just so unloved :)

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- July 27 2009 4:04 PM EDT

I support this 100%

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 27 2009 4:40 PM EDT

To clarify a little bit more...

The new item would increase damage in much the same way the AoF used to for familiars (say 2% per plus). It would in no way reduce AMF effect. In fact the more you boost damage with these gloves the more return you're likely to see from AMF.

It would also reduce the melee backlash damage by a certain percent per plus (suggested 5% so that you can't ever really reduce it all the way down unless a 70m pair of gloves is in your future)

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] July 27 2009 6:32 PM EDT

Well having a Skill or Once again me with this "Innate Talent" thing could come into play at a certain level.

Here it goes, the N*B is regulated by the TOP 5 Chars MPR if I remember Right. Well If Whatever DD or Skill's Innate Talent (Second Nature?) were regulated the same way for when it kicks in then there would be no hard cap. The curve would be created then for whatever you may need as a buff to whatever Skill/DD Spell.

Lets say the Top 5 users of Whatever Skill/DD Spell "Blah" Mil Trained then use that as a way to regulate a point of "Enlightenment/Expertise" say maybe 50 - 70% of the Average of the Top 5 Users would be that point. Then the Innate Talent kicks in and starts to Grow similar to the MTL we already have. This however would be dependent solely on how much of the Skill/DD Spell you train rather than anything else like HP, STR, or Dex.

In the Case of Fire Ball the Backsplash Damage would be reduced because of Expertise in said DD Spell.

In UCs Case Maybe a Buff to Damage or Added Dex/Endurance.

For CoC maybe a Front to back Buff in Damage.

ToE could get a buff to assist with Resistance to GA Damage.

The other Tats/Runes/Familiars/DD Spells/Skills could/should get something as well but once again that is up to people smarter than me.

Honestly though the sky is the limit with this thought it is up to others if they decide to perpetuate it.

Then there is also :

Orb of Power?Damage: +2% bonus per enchantment point to DD Spells,-1 or 2% penalty per enchantment point to EO/ED spells.

Orb of Solitude/Defense: +2% bonus per enchantment point to ED spells, -1 or 2% penalty per enchantment point to DD/EO spells.

Orb of Weakness/Offense: +2% bonus per enchantment point EO spells, -1 or 2% penalty per enchantment point to ED/DD spells

Make the Orbs blanket the negative effect on the entire party or what if they functioned at a lower level if you do not have another EO/ED/DD? -1% so its full effectiveness is only 1% per point with a high upgrade curve.

I think either one of these if a Person were open and wanted to COULD flesh tem out more and leave them as they are or translate them into another Item such as the Gloves or what not. Take as you will there's my 2 cents.......again

Lord Bob July 27 2009 7:54 PM EDT

I strongly agree with nerfing the NSCs.

The Fireball buff should come in form of a skill, not an item. In fact, at one point I proposed a skill for each of the damage spells, excluding the already overpowered Electric Grasp.
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