What do you think of EC? (in General)

a) It's all good how it is at 50% of exp trained.
b) It's too strong.
c) It should be better.

a) it has its uses.

EC?

Since so many items increase STR:
tulks, TSA, ToA, HoE,
As for dex:
EBS, EC, EG,

and only one item that increase EO:
corn

it is a losing battle

Henk, I think you're right, I'm using it and don't know why I'm keeping it, was looking at DM and you get at 80% of exp trained. I do think 50% is low but 80% would probably be too high.

If people were using evasion it would be great! That used to be it's primary use, still is good for getting that dex advantage and zapping some strength.

I think it's definitely the most versatile EO. Cause there is many ways to play the dex game.

"The Dex Game" officially no longer exists. Since PTH and base chance to hit nuked that one. And evasion nor db's is designed to nullify hits you only need a token dex to start hitting and let pth or a toa do the rest.

You CAN still avoid all hits with evasion or DB plus either (EC + some token DX) or high natural DX.

You can avoid dex based hits with a dex advantage. You can't dodge everything, but taking two hits is a pretty huge blow to a tank's damage potential.

You need nearly 20 million EC to neutralize my strength completely. I guess that now we have some very large tanks EC is starting to look a little difficult to grow so that it's worth it.

If you have a mage or mage only character, EC is garbage.

If you have a tank, DM prevents you from using EC. So EC is garbage.

The only way EC may be useful is if you use AMF (which is a waste of xp) and have a melee based tank. Which is not a strategy I suggest unless your a Jig based character.

Either way, EC is garbage and not very useful.

having a high natural dex does no longer provide any protection against hits. PTH and base chance to hit solved that problem and if you dont believe me try fighting a tank with half your dex but with a +100 weapon. DB's can not avoid all the hits as illustrated by JW his tank vs +320 DB's.

EC sucks and it will ever suck as natural and boosted STR is just too high on most tanks. And since most tanks are well below their encumbrance lvls and EC can't be used to lower that and evasion? since that doesn't reduce base chance to hit and all it does is kill of PTH you still have dex based hits.

Good luck, don't be fooled, tanks now are just as powerful as they were in CB1, probably even more.

Don't let people say mages have it easy. They don't...

It is quite useful. It may not shut down strength but it certainly does reduce it and that means reducing damage. If you play an evasion minion with EC backup it can totally ruin a tank.

Check out Tank Killer. I challenge anyone to beat it with a tank character at a comparable PR.

Actually I can't hit Hubbell at all... my Hal maybe hits once in three rounds and he has ~300 PTH...

Dex game doesn't matter if you have huge DBs

"DB's can not avoid all the hits as illustrated by JW his tank vs +320 DB's."

Correct, evasion or DBs alone, *IF* not also backed up by a DX advantage can not avoid all hits.

But with just the right amount of evasion or big enough DB to at least completely counteract the weapon's plus to hit, adding on top of it all a high enough DX advantage, you CAN avoid all hits.
Getting that DX advantage can be either by high enough natural DX, or from lowering the enemy DX via EC.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying EC is good as it is, not even decent... I'm just clarifying some misconception you seem to have about the way evasion and DX work together.

"Actually I can't hit Hubbell at all... my Hal maybe hits once in three rounds and he has ~300 PTH...
Dex game doesn't matter if you have huge DBs "

Actually, Hubbell 's Halidon evades your Halidon via junction-ed evasion skill on the carrier minion combined with junction-ed ELVEN BOOTS, which boost his Hal's natural DX giving him an even better DX advantage :)

I train EC on my current NCB.
I train it to pump my Hal, nothing else.
I reckon it could be better, but for my purposes it is as good as i need it.

But now i reach my point where there are a lot of AS around and my EC is doing bugger all.

I just retrained to DM and the difference is astounding!
I lose no one from my list but gain a bunch of extra targets.
That would be my reason for saying EC needs to be improved.

One consideration is letting you use DM and EC together.

However, I do not see that happening.

I think EC is fine. If you put 1/2 your total EXP into it, you can neutralize all the Hals around your level.

So if most people who wrote on this thread thinks the spell needs some help, why not boosting it considerably and give an item like MenC some resistance to it?

The problem is that there's a fine line between weakening an opponent and utterly destroying their offense.

It requires lots of investment to make a significant difference, but for not too much more than that, you can reduce an opponent's tank's damage output to near-zero. The Strength-reducing part, at least. With Dexterity, it's a little bit different.

And in most cases, a 'significant difference' won't make a significant difference, unless it's a rather large, XP-consuming 'significant difference'.

Well, they could boost is DX-reducing part only (and leave ST as is) to double or more of the current effect...