Group Discussion (in General)


[Jedi] Danludar August 26 2009 6:29 PM EDT

So what really is the flaw of the N*B. I've looked at so many posts and so many rants about it, and honestly I don't see a huge flaw. The only thing I've realized that bugs me is the fact that the NUB gets a cash bonus and the NCB is left with flat rewards. If on a N*B we can reach lets say 3 mil MPR. That is a pretty good foothold I would think. There are some teams up in the top scores under 4 mil MPR, so I can't really figure out what people are whining about.


Long story short. Enlighten me, in a non argumentative and organized manner please, on your issues.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] August 26 2009 6:31 PM EDT

There are some teams up in the top scores under 4 mil MPR, so I can't really figure out what people are whining about.


Thank the massive Net worth and USD for that ;p.

[Jedi] Danludar August 26 2009 6:35 PM EDT

Well that's there choice. Yes I've spent a bit of USD myself here, but I believe that you can reach the top without it. It seems like everyone starts a NCB (for instance) gets their gear up then restarts instead of just keeping with their current team and fighting up. There are plenty of N*B out there that made it to the top by continuing on. If I remember right Mikel was one at one time wasn't he?

Kefeck [BlackSmith] August 26 2009 6:40 PM EDT

So your saying start an ncb grow it to 3.5 million mpr or so. Than instead of starting with another ncb, just continue fighting with that one until you one day surpass Mikel or LA? I'm not sure it'd work like that now days ;).

QBRanger August 26 2009 6:40 PM EDT

My main problem with the N*B is that it is like Super Crack.

A huge bonus, then bamm, its gone and your getting 1/5th rewards.

For new players, that is a shock and for older ones, it sucks to go back to normal.

And when that N*B is over, that is basically it. No way aside from buying minions or increasing your NW to pass anyone else.

While a 3M MPR character seems great, when fighting at the top, you realize your behind the top characters and have no way of catching up without massive USD.

To get higher than 3M MPR as a NCB, one has to buy BA which at 5x normal prices are prohibitively expensive without again USD.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] August 26 2009 6:43 PM EDT

My problem with the ncb isnt the shock of losing it, but the insane BA prices. I agree, they should be higher then normal but, 5x is just too much.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 26 2009 6:51 PM EDT

my problem is more with the n*b and how it leaves out older characters thus creating a disposable environment where gear and tattoos are much more important than the team.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] August 26 2009 6:51 PM EDT

Also.

I feel the developers are almost asking for trouble. By making nub cash rewards so high, and BA on ncb's so high. Your literally asking for people to come back as multi's too sell cbd for USD. Why? Because they know the demand is there.
If the ncb is to stay in its current format. I feel jon and or nightstrike should take over the cash market somehow, and control it so there are no nub sellouts. All USD should go to the developers to develop the game more. It feels like a no brainer to me.

Demigod August 26 2009 7:10 PM EDT

"A huge bonus, then bamm, its gone and your getting 1/5th rewards... that is a shock and... it sucks to go back to normal."
~Ranger

"it leaves out older characters thus creating a disposable environment"
~dudemus

"I feel the developers are almost asking for trouble... Your literally asking for people to come back as multi's..."
~Kefeck


Ditto

And insert an obligatory comment about a rolling bonus here.

[Jedi] Danludar August 26 2009 9:11 PM EDT

I see your guys points. I've never reached top 10 score...even top 50 for that matter. I'd really like to, but I know RL comes first in the situation and I just have fun playing. This being the only reason I've ever looked into the rolling bonus idea.

Any other points out there?

Zenai August 26 2009 9:36 PM EDT

Hmm Maybe just make the NCB2/3rds reduced in BA price or put the Free BA on equal footing between the NCB and NUB. With this there is at least a lower chance for the "Want" to multi and make it more wanted to make and keep a NCB char. Just an idea I guess, like others have said: Flame On!

QBOddBird August 26 2009 9:42 PM EDT

It promotes disposable characters
It's an ever-increasing bonus. How do you fight with a 3000% bonus?
It promotes multi creation
It mass-injects CBD into the system
Did I mention it promotes disposable characters
It drops newbies flat after a few months
It forces newbies to pick up the game and get hardcore from day ONE
It reduces the value of characters dramatically
And it promotes disposable characters.

gols090 [forge of me] August 26 2009 10:28 PM EDT

It drops newbies flat after a few months
It forces newbies to pick up the game and get hardcore from day ONE

I'm not looking forward to the days without NUB :(

I wish the sandbox feature was implemented, and NUB bonus started after sandbox tutorial finished. I spent my first week trying things out, and even retired a character (I don't remember why -.-). Or maybe reduce loss of exp from retraining for NUBs.

QBRanger August 27 2009 12:00 AM EDT

The fact that the NUB starts from day 1 is the only feature stopping me from pulling my hair out over this outdated feature.

Imagine the characters NUB's would have (as well as multis) if they got a month to learn CB and then get the NUB for 6 months.

All the top character would be NUB/multis.

RaptorX August 27 2009 12:58 AM EDT

Ok - so it seems an option would be a curved bonus with lower rewards up high but everyone getting higher rewards down low. This would create a bunched up top with a lot of huge characters which may be fun competition.. though not so good for those that have worked so hard to get there. And the strategies may be less important also.. hmm - I guess every plan has drawbacks.

kevlar August 27 2009 1:03 AM EDT

Going hardcore from day 1 means retaining a lot less new players. Most people like to be able to learn a game, not be tossed into it on a fend for yourself basis. That's like buying a new boardgame without the rules pamphlet. Yes, there is the wiki, but that in itself is pretty intense studying material. I think the 'sandbox' idea is a good one, don't think it should be a month long period, but at least a few days. I think it should be coupled with a stronger tutorial which Shade is a strong advocate for.

The money influx and character washout issues are a concern, and I don't think anyone likes the idea of characters becoming obsolete... but ya have to balance the idea of promoting the game and retaining the value of what is already here.

QBRanger August 27 2009 1:15 AM EDT

If the tutorial was fixed, then it would be easy for people to go "hardcore" the first few days.

If your trying to keep people you have to hook them from the first few minutes they play the game.

Having such growth from the first time you play CB is sort of a drug. You see very fast growth with some nice money game.

Imagine coming into CB and seeing 5M MPR characters and you played as much as you can day 1 and get to 1k MPR. Seeing how slow things are. Being told in a few days or more you will get a huge bonus.

I doubt many people would come back for day 2.

You have to hook them from day 1. You never get a 2nd chance for a first impression.

But even with a rolling bonus idea, the high % bonus in the beginning will not be changing.

kevlar August 27 2009 1:22 AM EDT

heh, I didn't know what MPR was until I was a week or so in. And as for knowing about growth, I was more focused on how to buy the weapons and figuring out how to use them. And tats? And sifting through the wiki and sending endless cms to people you just meet? I completely disagree with the day 1 philosophy. This game has much more draw with the more you learn from it. And having a more solid grasp on the trivialities and basic knowledge stuff early I believe will have a better chance at keeping people's interest.

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 10:50 AM EDT

Alright, I'm glad this hasn't gotten ugly yet :), I remember when I started CB, I didn't really get it all that much and I messed up a TON. Someone CMed me when I made a post about something and helped me out. I retrained it all and figured things out. Now mind you this was CB1 about 4 or 5 years ago but it's still the same idea :).

Stronger tutorial is a must, I don't even remember the tutorial but it didn't do jack squat I remember that. It never warned me I'd need to play constantly to keep up with others.

The idea of disposable characters I feel is a huge part blamed on our community. Since no one wants to try to press on and duke out that 3-4 mil MPR trek. It may promote the ability to get higher next time, six months from now when higher is exactly where you were, but in the six month time your gonna be beyond where you were anyways so what really is the difference.

It does drop you straight on your face with no bonus, but big deal. I'm not making any cash rewards right now other than fighting up to 100% and having my clan bonus and I make fine rewards. It's always been slow making cash, much slower I've noticed than it was when I played the first time around, but that's the fun in this game knowing you just saved 2mil for that corn you need to add 3 people to your fightlist.

Whew that was long.

QBRanger August 27 2009 10:55 AM EDT

A better tutorial would solve most of the problem Kevlar discussed.

And that should be the first thing fixed.

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 11:01 AM EDT

I completely agree with you Ranger, but I see that posted everywhere. How about we help NS out. What would you guys like to see in a tutorial, maybe as a whole community for once we can come together on this one and not argue our sides :).

I know in a tutorial I'd like to see some game history. As in a little story kinda deal.

Help with all the basic features.

Possibly a list of strategies I can try out and the pros and cons. With this one wiki links would work great. Also it could show what spells are pretty much useless these days and what have great use. Not everyone finds these things out early.

Demigod August 27 2009 11:05 AM EDT

The more clear-cut of a mock up you can provide, the better the chances are that an owner will spend time coding it. Too bad I can't think of a simple way to provide a mock up of it..

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 11:12 AM EDT

I agree with you demi, as I know the feeling. I'm in school for gaming, just started, and I would hate if I had people telling me things but had no mock up.

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 11:21 AM EDT

I forgot to add in to this...so lets compile some ideas and maybe I'll try to put something together.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 27 2009 11:34 AM EDT

"The idea of disposable characters I feel is a huge part blamed on our community. Since no one wants to try to press on and duke out that 3-4 mil MPR trek. It may promote the ability to get higher next time, six months from now when higher is exactly where you were, but in the six month time your gonna be beyond where you were anyways so what really is the difference."

have you been there to do it? what happened with my igot noname character was that i made it up into the top 15 mpr and was fighting in the top 10. i was getting all my ba and a healthy clan bonus. within a few months i was barely in the top 30 mpr's as nubs and even a few ncbs passed me by.

some of the issue was a weak tat, but i had grown it myself and short of buying a higher one, my only choice was to run multiple ncbs to grow it some more. my tat went from 4.6m to 6.9m with kwai chang's run and will have less time to go during jigster's run but will have quite a bit higher bonus.

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 12:49 PM EDT

No I haven't, and I don't doubt you get passed, but look at how many people up top are NCB or NUB characters originally. The only one that isn't is Poison and he seems to be doing just fine without spending any USD.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 27 2009 1:13 PM EDT

poison is awesome and has been for the most of cb2! he also has an awesome tattoo and now you got me wondering if he grew it from scratch or has upgraded at some point.

poison is only one person though and many more have given up on their day one characters and even a few ncb ones as well. ; )

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 1:25 PM EDT

Quite back and forth right now, I'm wondering if I need a life today :)

I agree with you dud, cause I remember Ranger had a top spot character now he has another. Yes the USD argument is going to come into play here. Lets not forget Sefton though, fought, and camped and got top spot without spending 100% of BA or USD for that matter. I just see ways around things, like a good strategy can take you a long way. Focusing your strategy such as a lot of people do can screw you over in the long run though.

I'm not sure, I could just be a jerk here, but a good strategy high or low NW, and a bit of dedication to a team I know you could hit top 10 at least.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] August 27 2009 1:26 PM EDT

Whats wrong with the NCB and NUB?

BA costs for the NCB its too high for anyone except the USD spenders.
BA costs for the NUB its too cheap, 6 months of free BA and with added money bonus? No make it 4 months of free BA and 2 months of rising BA cost.

Demigod August 27 2009 1:32 PM EDT

"make it 4 months of free BA and 2 months of rising BA cost."
~Henk

That "ramping" idea will help to ease the sudden shock mentioned above that might be an indicator to some players that they've reached the finish line of the game. We still need some way to resolve the other problems with the current system, though.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] August 27 2009 3:26 PM EDT

Mantra...

Lord Bob August 27 2009 3:28 PM EDT

"So what really is the flaw of the N*B."

Two words: disposable characters.

[Jedi] Danludar August 27 2009 5:22 PM EDT

Well It used to be normal BA prices with money bonus. Then they got jacked up and I was shocked to find out it was free when I came back.

Possibly we should make it so you have to wait X amount of months after your N*B till you start a NCB.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 27 2009 5:43 PM EDT

"Well It used to be normal BA prices with money bonus. Then they got jacked up and I was shocked to find out it was free when I came back."

the money bonus was reduced by the amount that it cost to purchase all ba to reduce the influx of cash into the game that was just sold. in effect if you used all ba there was no net change. however, if you used no ba and sold the cash, it made so that you had less to sell and were better off using all of your ba.
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